The Holy Spirit is not Kundalini - Daskalos

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

 

Kundalini is not the Holy Spirit, according to Daskalos, a mystic Christian healer.

 

From "The Esoteric Teachings" by A Teacher of What is Within - Dr. Stylianos Atteshlis Ph. D., D.D., M. Psy., M. Mcs., (known as 'Daskalos')

 

 

CHAPTER FOURTEEN

THE HOLY SPIRIT

 

The HOLY SPIRIT is the LORD GOD. We find it as much within the Self-Sufficiency of ABSOLUTE BEINGNESS as a state of Authority, together with the CHRIST LOGOS, as in the expression of ABSOLUTE BEINGNESS as creative agent.

 

The One and Absolute God is All. By IT, in the persons of the CHRIST LOGOS and HOLY SPIRIT, are created the Uni-verses, the worlds and all other systems, as a result of the Divine Will, in order to manifest goodness and beauty. ("And God saw that it was good." Gen. 1.18)

 

The HOLY SPIRIT is everywhere present, the all-fulfilling Law and Conserving Principle of ABSOLUTE BEINGNESS. It is the provider of Life and the phenomenon of life: Life, by reason of Its nature, because, together with the Father and the Only -Begotten LOGOS, it controls Life in its absolute nature: the phenomenon of life, because Creative Ether is subject to the direction and control of the HOLY SPIRIT, when it is used by the Archangels, the Angels and the angels of the elements, to express Total Wisdom within the Ideas.

 

And this is not only within the Human Idea. but in other Ideas, such as harmony, movement, composition, analysis and other undefined ideas or defined idea-shapes.

 

The HOLY SPIRIT and Its co-workers work with total wisdom and superconsciousness in the material body and the related worlds, to demonstrate the phenomenon of life.

 

 

...

 

 

Of course, the real psychic centres are situated in the etheric double of the psychic body, though their origins are in the etheric double of the gross material body. Their leaves, as we might call them, open out in the etheric double of the psychic body and their flowers appear on the corresponding double of the noetic body. On the gross material body's etheric double, we have psychonoetic centres, which we call sacred discs. In the etheric double of the psychic body we have, once again, these psychonoetic centres, but they are stronger in their activity. We call them sacred spheres. Finally, in the etheric double of the lower noetic body, there are even more active centres with a wider concept of space and time. These we call radiant stars. But let us return to the sacred discs and study some of them.

 

There is one sacred disc at the lower end of the spine at the point where the sacrum is situated. It resembles a red snake with seven coils with its head pointing up the spinal column. But although it looks like a snake, it is really fire. It is the primordial fire within both the material body and its etheric counterpart. which constitutes the basis of material existence. According to the Scriptures it is the sword of the Archangel Michael, the "flaming sword which turned every way" (Genesis 3.24), with which the first humans were expelled from the Garden of Eden and which keeps the entity in its gross material state. It is not permitted to say more about this centre, because the awakening of the primordial fire within the material body can burn up the entire etheric double of the human being and cause the death of the material body. Only Masters can concern themselves with this sacred disc.

 

Bolding is mine.

[Bearded Dragon]

Hmmmm. Seems like an interesting guy. I think I'll read a bit more on this. Thanks.

[Andrei]

He's right. Holy Spirit comes from above and beyond and enters the body through crown center through the silver cord, which is the link between you and your Higher Self, while kundalini is the sexual energy stored in the sacrum bone-lumbar region which burns like a fire. Two different energies.

[MooNiNite]

So merging with the higher self isnt connected with kundalini?

Edited January 24, 2016 by MooNiNite

[Cheshire Cat]

According To The scriptures, the holy spirit is a tongue of fire that comes from above And It gives You superpowers that are Not listed in The traditional kundalini phenomenology (es. The ability to speak foreign languages )

[Aithrobates]

Kundalini is not only "your" energy, it is a form of Shakti, which is somewhat similar to the feminine Spirit (Pneuma) or Wisdom (Sophia) of God. The comparison stops here as AFAIK there is now talking about differents forms of the Holy Spirit, a general one, and personal manifestations. Holy Spirit is Holy Spirit. Period. (It may not be like this, I know very few things about Orthodox esoterism, after all).

 

The so called "Cathars", the "Great Heresy", had a Spiritus Sanctus Principalis and a "personal" Spiritus Sanctus, that you get when you are baptized in fire, in spirit, not the regular water one.  H. Corbin equates this with the Spiritual Twin he studies in iranian religions (he thinks that Catharism as iranic influences, the classical view that it is a form of Neo-Manicheism).

 

That would be traduced as HGA in new age lingo. But the awakened Shakti as something of the spiritual double, guide or guardian, as it is the inner guru, the inner presence of the Goddess and its wisdom. So we may not be too far.

[Jeff]

In Christian terms, Jesus describes it like this...

 

 

John 14:15-17

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Jeff

[Tibetan_Ice]

In Christian terms, Jesus describes it like this...

 

 

John 14:15-17

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

What is ' it' from your first sentence? The HGA?

[Jeff]

What is ' it' from your first sentence? The HGA?

 

As the text describes... The spirit of truth...

 

What is a HGA?

[Aithrobates]

"Holy Guardian Angel"

[Jeff]

"Holy Guardian Angel"

 

And what is that? Some new age thing?

[Tibetan_Ice]

As the text describes... The spirit of truth...

...

How is this relevant to the Holy Spirit vs Kundalini, the topic of this thread? Edited January 24, 2016 by Tibetan_Ice

[Aithrobates]

How is this relevant to the Holy Spirit vs Kundalini, the topic of this thread?

 

I'm not sure it's relevant. My contribution on the the two Spiritus in Catharism is just a side note. A weak hypothesis, if you will.

[Tibetan_Ice]

I'm not sure it's relevant. My contribution on the the two Spiritus in Catharism is just a side note. A weak hypothesis, if you will.

The question was for Jeff and his quote.

[Aithrobates]

The question was for Jeff and his quote.

 

Yes, yes. But as I introduced this notion in the thread, I feel kind of responsible for the sub-topic.

 

Jeff, just use a search engine it's a common notion, it has a wiki page an everything. It's preferable not to answer the HGA question here, or the thread will go in too much directions, and be unreadable (it happens a lot here ^^). Let's stick to the inital topic. You can create a thread about it if your are intrigued.

[Jeff]

How is this relevant to the Holy Spirit vs Kundalini, the topic of this thread?

 

The quote is relevant is association with the concept of energy related to the Holy Spirit as there is no real concept of Kundalini in the Christian tradition. As you can see from the following verse...

 

“In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”

‭‭John‬ ‭7:37-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

The Holy Spirit is directly tied to the "flow rivers of living water" (energy) out of his "belly".

[Tibetan_Ice]

The quote is relevant is association with the concept of energy related to the Holy Spirit as there is no real concept of Kundalini in the Christian tradition.

...

 

You quoted this:

John 14:15-17

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

 

 

You are saying that the Spirit referred to here is the Holy Spirit.

According to Daskalos, the Holy Spirit is already inseparable from human beings.

 

I guess you didn't read that in the OP. Here it is again.

 

CHAPTER FOURTEEN

THE HOLY SPIRIT

 

The HOLY SPIRIT is the LORD GOD. We find it as much within the Self-Sufficiency of ABSOLUTE BEINGNESS as a state of Authority, together with the CHRIST LOGOS, as in the expression of ABSOLUTE BEINGNESS as creative agent.

 

The One and Absolute God is All. By IT, in the persons of the CHRIST LOGOS and HOLY SPIRIT, are created the Uni-verses, the worlds and all other systems, as a result of the Divine Will, in order to manifest goodness and beauty. ("And God saw that it was good." Gen. 1.18)

 

The HOLY SPIRIT is everywhere present, the all-fulfilling Law and Conserving Principle of ABSOLUTE BEINGNESS. It is the provider of Life and the phenomenon of life: Life, by reason of Its nature, because, together with the Father and the Only -Begotten LOGOS, it controls Life in its absolute nature: the phenomenon of life, because Creative Ether is subject to the direction and control of the HOLY SPIRIT, when it is used by the Archangels, the Angels and the angels of the elements, to express Total Wisdom within the Ideas.

 

And this is not only within the Human Idea. but in other Ideas, such as harmony, movement, composition, analysis and other undefined ideas or defined idea-shapes.

 

The HOLY SPIRIT and Its co-workers work with total wisdom and superconsciousness in the material body and the related worlds, to demonstrate the phenomenon of life.

 

 

So, according to Daskalos, if you are alive, then you already have the Holy Spirit working for you. There would be no reason to receive the Holy Spirit as your quote implies. Therefore, the bible quote is incorrect or you have misinterpreted what is being said there as the Holy Spirit.

 

It is too bad that the bible is such a hodgepodge of indecipherable stories.

 

This "helper" might well be the Guardian Angel, as Daskalos mentions:

 

From Swimming With the Whale:

Chapter Fourteen THE VOICE OF AN ANGEL Now, in the bodies, in the Etheric Doubles of the material, the Psychical and the Noetical Bodies there is an archangel near the Thrones [a Metathrone]. This is your Guardian Angel. Every human being has a Guardian Angel. That is not your so-called higher Self. He is an Archangel different from your Spirit-Soul. Out of Love that Guardian Angel is egofied [unified] to you. When you say that nobody can hear or see what you are doing -you are mistaken. The Guardian Angel knows everything and, sometimes, when you overdo it -he interferes. That is what you call the stings of consciousness. Did you ever analyze what are the stings of consciousness that are coming to us sometimes saying, "That's wrong? You shouldn't have done it?" It is his voice.

 

Now, I will reveal much more. Do you know that you are in dialogue with him all the time without understanding it? He is egofied [unified] with you. You think that you are making this conversation with yourself. Just notice. When you sit in meditation, in silence, you listen to this dialogue. I ask you with whom are you talking with? You think, “It is with myself." It is not with yourself -it is with your Guardian Angel that you are talking. That's why I say listen to your inner voice and consult that super intelligent Archangel who loves you. ~ Daskalos

 

 

But then again, Daskalos says that everyone has a guardian angel. (My Bolding in the quote)

 

Therefore, why would someone have to receive something that they already have? They already have the Holy Spirit, and they already have a Guardian Angel, so why would Jesus have to pray to the Father to give another Helper to believers and maintainers of the commandments? This helper is obviously not the Holy Spirit and not the Guardian Angel, is it?

 

Looks to me to be like some form of spiritual blackmail that some wrote in the bible to make humankind have to obtain something through the church, something which they already have.

 

And, now, in your last post post, you admit that there is no mention of kundalini in the bible, as you said:

 

The quote is relevant is association with the concept of energy related to the Holy Spirit as there is no real concept of Kundalini in the Christian tradition.

 

As you can see from the following verse...“In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”‭‭John‬ ‭7:37-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬The Holy Spirit is directly tied to the "flow rivers of living water" (energy) out of his "belly".

 

Therefore, are you admitting that you fabricated the claim that the Holy Spirit is kundalini?

 

Daskalos is saying that kundalini is found at the base of the spine, not the belly. It is a primordial fire that burns the etheric double. It causes death of the physical body. So, the Holy Spirit supports life, and the kundalini causes death. How far apart do they have to be before you quit trying to prove that the Holy Spirit and kundalini are the same by referring to "energy"?

[Brian]

Of course, it is always possible that Daskalos is mistaken.

[Jonesboy]

Of course, it is always possible that Daskalos is mistaken.

Watch out now Brian. He does have a bunch of letters behind his name. Ph. D., D.D., M. Psy., M. Mcs.

 

.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Jonesboy

[Brian]

Watch out now Brian. He does have a bunch of letters behind his name. Ph. D., D.D., M. Psy., M. Mcs.

 

.

<grin>

[Aetherous]

“In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)” ‭‭John‬ ‭7:37-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

The Holy Spirit is directly tied to the "flow rivers of living water" (energy) out of his "belly".

 

The KJV is considered a poor translation. ESV says the heart instead of the belly, for instance...other versions don't even mention a body part. Would be cool to compare Aramaic and Greek versions to modern translations as well, and really see what that sentence is saying. Also, this passage says that, "the scripture hath said"...I don't have a good Bible with me, but normally they will tell what verse that's referring to. Maybe something from Psalms?

 

Even if it is belly, that's not the kundalini which is at the base of the spine.

 

Furthermore, perhaps these various body parts have a meaning within the Christian tradition that differs from how we would view it in light of other traditions or publicly known esoteric correspondences. These are part of the Christian mysteries.

[Jeff]

The KJV is considered a poor translation. ESV says the heart instead of the belly, for instance...other versions don't even mention a body part. Would be cool to compare Aramaic and Greek versions to modern translations as well, and really see what that sentence is saying. Also, this passage says that, "the scripture hath said"...I don't have a good Bible with me, but normally they will tell what verse that's referring to. Maybe something from Psalms?

Even if it is belly, that's not the kundalini which is at the base of the spine.

Furthermore, perhaps these various body parts have a meaning within the Christian tradition that differs from how we would view it in light of other traditions or publicly known esoteric correspondences. These are part of the Christian mysteries.

 

In my personal experience, I would agree that the heart is more accurate related to what Jesus is describing in the gospel quote. Also, as I stated above the concept of kundalini in the form of some disc (or stored energy) at the base of the spine does not exist in Christianity, Taoism or Buddhism to my knowledge; that is more of a Hindu concept.

[Kar3n]

Another perspective on kundalini and the holy spirit.

 

http://www.sol.com.au/kor/8_01.htm

 

Dr. Ramesh Manocha "Christ & the Kundalini" Knowledge of Reality issue 8. 

 

...

 

The most ancient Eastern spiritual texts, the Vedas, of India, tell us that the process of spiritual awakening by which one attains truth-awareness is called 'Self-Realisation'. The Self Realised person lives in direct experience of reality -- this is called "Jnana" ( a traditional sanskrit word meaning 'knowledge' or 'Gnosis'). Such a person is called a "Jnani" ('knower' or 'gnostic' ) or "dwijaha" ('twice born'; first from a human mother to the earthly plane then secondly as a child of the Goddess, or Divine Mother, who gives the seeker their second, spiritual birth, Self Realisation, into the plane of mystic awareness- gnosis! ). The traditional Indian texts extol the 'Divine Mother' as the Cosmic Matriarch, bestower of the highest treasure of Self Realisation upon Her deserving children. Many Indian mystic traditions say this same goddess is represented within the human being as the divine feminine power called Kundalini.

 

...

[Jeff]

You quoted this:

You are saying that the Spirit referred to here is the Holy Spirit.

According to Daskalos, the Holy Spirit is already inseparable from human beings.

I guess you didn't read that in the OP. Here it is again.

 

So, according to Daskalos, if you are alive, then you already have the Holy Spirit working for you. There would be no reason to receive the Holy Spirit as your quote implies. Therefore, the bible quote is incorrect or you have misinterpreted what is being said there as the Holy Spirit.

It is too bad that the bible is such a hodgepodge of indecipherable stories.

This "helper" might well be the Guardian Angel, as Daskalos mentions:

From Swimming With the Whale:

 

But then again, Daskalos says that everyone has a guardian angel. (My Bolding in the quote)

Therefore, why would someone have to receive something that they already have? They already have the Holy Spirit, and they already have a Guardian Angel, so why would Jesus have to pray to the Father to give another Helper to believers and maintainers of the commandments? This helper is obviously not the Holy Spirit and not the Guardian Angel, is it?

Looks to me to be like some form of spiritual blackmail that some wrote in the bible to make humankind have to obtain something through the church, something which they already have.

And, now, in your last post post, you admit that there is no mention of kundalini in the bible, as you said:

 

Therefore, are you admitting that you fabricated the claim that the Holy Spirit is kundalini?

Daskalos is saying that kundalini is found at the base of the spine, not the belly. It is a primordial fire that burns the etheric double. It causes death of the physical body. So, the Holy Spirit supports life, and the kundalini causes death. How far apart do they have to be before you quit trying to prove that the Holy Spirit and kundalini are the same by referring to "energy"?

 

If you are seeing the words of Jesus in the gospels as some form of "spiritual blackmail", then it doesn't sound like we have much to discuss on this topic. Best wishes to you and your Daskalos tradition.

[Jonesboy]

Ramana Maharshi mentioned that Kundalini is nothing but the natural energy of the Self, where Self is the universal consciousness (Paramatma) present in every being, and that the individual mind of thoughts cloaks this natural energy from unadulterated expression. Advaita teaches self-realization, enlightenment, God-consciousness, and nirvana. But, initial Kundalini awakening is just the beginning of actual spiritual experience. Self-inquiry meditation is considered a very natural and simple means of reaching this goal.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini

 

“D.: How to find the Atman?

M.: There is no investigation into the Atman. The investigation can only be into “the non-self. Elimination of the non-self is alone possible. The Self being always self evident will shine forth of itself.

The Self is called by different names - Atman, God, Kundalini, mantra, etc. Hold any one of them and the Self becomes manifest. God is no other than the Self. Kundalini is now showing forth as the mind. When the mind is traced to its source it is Kundalini.

 

Excerpt From: Sadhu, Arunachala. “Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi.”

 

Just a couple of things to think about. If THS is all things and kundalini is all things and you believe in non-duality. Maybe they are talking about the same thing? Just different aspects of the same thing?

Edited January 25, 2016 by Jonesboy