The Holy Spirit is not Kundalini - Daskalos

[9th]

This is pretty relevant here.  Some of you may be interested in contributing to this kickstarter:

 

Serpent on the Cross: The Ancient Occult Path to Liberation is a pioneering account of a secret spiritual tradition that is the Western counterpart of tantra. As well as providing an accurate history of this tradition, the author - an academic expert on the occult - also describes his own experimentation with its alchemical and magical techniques of healing and inner transformation. 

 

Dealing primarily with the summoning of angels and demons, the techniques detailed in Serpent on the Cross have been passed on within an esoteric lineage stretching back in history to the early Christians, and beyond them to the primeval shamanic past. You might think of this tradition as a great tree, its branches stretching eastwards to tantra and westwards to practices we describe today as ‘occult arts’. 

 

Unlike its cousins in the East, however, the Western branch of the ancient tree of gnosis has withered as religious and rationalist zealots alike have vilified and persecuted its practitioners. Surviving largely as an underground spiritual current, it has only occasionally surfaced into Western intellectual culture, most recently via the work of Carl Gustav Jung.

 

[MooNiNite]

How does one distinguish Logic from Logos, Reason, or Truth?

 

 

“Logic, if you stick to logic you cannot go very far. What is logic other than the conventional way of thinking at a particular time and place? Our concern is with Logos, Reason, Truth which are beyond time and space.”

-Daskalos

[noonespecial]

And what is that? Some new age thing?

 

Totally.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Of course, it is always possible that Daskalos is mistaken.

Gee, Daskalos can speak several languages, heal cancer, materialize and dematerialize objects including human spines, communicate with beings in the upper realms, know his past lives (and can learn about yours), can transport himself over great distances and duplicate himself a hundred fold.

 

Maybe it is not Daskalos whom is mistaken?

[MooNiNite]

its difficult to say if Daskalos did those things, but I believe he is authentic. His descriptions of Jesus make perfect sense. 

[Bindi]

Yes, as I have stated repeatedly, I consider the Gospel of Thomas an incredibly valuable (and experimentally accurate) text. But, while I have no issue with someone being "gnostic", I do not find the label particularly helpful regarding my mystical Christian experience and beliefs. Gnostic traditions are based in a belief that the world was created and still controlled by some evil overlord (Demiurge). Additionally, they tend to have complicated magic based systems that support their framework. I do not agree with that or see the value in such an approach. And, yes, I stand by all of my posts (and things like "transmission"), but don't consider the term gnostic particularly useful or accurate when discussing mystical Christianity.

 

I believe you focus on kundalini practices. I think your ‘light transmission’ is a kundalini practice. ‘Lighting someone’s candle’ is activating their kundalini. You’re not the first to do this, and nor will you be the last. There is clearly a place for it amongst people who want to go down that road for various reasons (eg., MIME), though I personally don’t think it is valuable to cultivate kundalini directly, and I cite Ramana’s views on this, not Western narrow-mindedness.

 

But my personal view on the value of kundalini activation is not my issue here, my underlying issue is you claiming kundalini activation and merging to be mystical Christianity (or Rainbow Body, or Buddhist light body, or Daoist light body, or Rigpa, or Bodhicitta, or The Holy Spirit, or any of the other high end experiences that you cite).

 

How many Christians mystical or otherwise do you know that identify their highest self as a sexy Blonde Female and encourage others to visualise them as this if they can’t see it directly, who directly manipulate other’s kundalini energy, who work with other’s chakras, who invoke a pantheon of deities and entities both Christian and non-Christian to be present, and who merge astral energies with others during light transmissions in internet chat rooms?

 

I don’t see how you can in all honesty identify yourself as a Christian mystic, when the only Christian bit left is Jesus, and a decidedly gnostic Jesus at that, who believes and says the decidedly gnostic Christian things that you believe. 

[gatito]

Edited January 28, 2016 by gatito

[Edward M]

**not even going to bother**

 

Apech, thanks for that, maybe it's a case of the sources i got the info from being mistaken in as they Greek was their native language.  In any case, it seems the second source i got the info from was probably from a member of Daskalos's group conisdering what he said in addition.  

 

Daskalos seems legit in his sincerity, healijng ability and most important of all, his genuine love, doesn't mean he can't be mistaken though.

 

cheers 

Edited January 26, 2016 by Edward M

[Bindi]

Bindi, instead of calling us westerners narrow minded, why don't you look in the mirror and consider that perhaps you are beijng narrow minded?  

 

Look, if you want to be involved in that, that's your issue, but mystical Christianity it aint, and I would challenge you or anyone else to demonstrate in what way any of this could for a moment be imagined as mystical Christianity. 

 

Apech, thanks for that, maybe it's a case of the sources i got the info from being mistaken in as they Greek was their native language.  In any case, it seems the second source i got the info from was probably from a member of Daskalos's group conisdering what he said in addition.  

 

Daskalos seems legit in his sincerity, healijng ability and most important of all, his genuine love, doesn't mean he can't be mistaken though.

 

cheers 

[Edward M]

cheers

Edited January 26, 2016 by Edward M

[Bindi]

If you want proof, go seek out a genuine christian mystic in person and talk to them, but don't make the mistake of telling them that as they have experienced these things it makes them a gnostic.  Read the accounts of St Seraphim for a start, and note how when someone caught him deep in prayer, he was ablaze with light as if on fire.  Also, the British and American contemplative prayer movement have some intersting things to say.

 

Mystics of the kind you point to may not directly train these things, but they sure do EXPERIENCE them... energy is energy, circulation is circulation, cause and effect   

 

ps, I apologise for my initial comment in reply to your one regarding westerners, i edited it out just before you posted...  

 

cheers

 

An example of an actual Christian mystic and ascetic, “St. Seraphim’s life consisted chiefly of prayer,” in a hermitage, partaking of the Eucharist on Saturday’s and feast days (until the day he considered himself unworthy). As a hermit he was “tempted by the spirit of darkness” which could only “be overcome by prayer”.  He became known as a miracle worker and healer, capable of healing extreme physical conditions with a single word, and taught that the goal of Christian life was to do good works done for Christ that lead to the acquisition of the Holy Spirit.

 

I have never heard of a physical healing that Jeff has performed and I have asked, I have never heard of an authenticated miracle that he has performed and I have asked, he has never mentioned the importance of prayer or the Eucharist, he never mentions the necessity of doing good works for Christ, and he never mentions that this is how to acquire the Holy Spirit. He does on the other hand talk about light bodies and light transmission an awful lot, and initiate anyone who wants into an ecstatic kundalini adventure which takes mere months to achieve, no prayer needed, no good works needed, not even a Christian belief is necessary, polytheism is absolutely acceptable. Jeff is no Christian mystic, even though he believes in a gnostic Jesus, this does not qualify him as a Christian mystic.   

 

Quotes from http://www.symeon-anthony.info/StSeraphimSarov/StSeraphimSarov.htm 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2016 by Bindi

[Edward M]

This is my last post, just to say i don't think you took on board my point... and i don't believe chasing someone around and demonising/making an example out of them is a prticularly chrstian thing to do either... and i wasn't talking about jeff in the last post, i ws talking about enegy and light, transmission etc and making the point there are no set boundaries, and that anyone can expreine them regardless of practice.. 

 

anyway, i'm out of here.... you have your opinion i have mine.. peace be with you

Edited January 26, 2016 by Edward M

[Bindi]

Have you ever read some of the stuff Jesus supposedly said about the Pharisees? And he was the model Christian, but apparently he was allowed to have an opinion about the people he saw around him. Not that I claim to be a Christian anyway. 

 

Matt 23:13-36 13-14 You Pharisees and teachers of the Law of Moses are in for trouble! You’re nothing but show-offs. You lock people out of the kingdom of heaven. You won’t go in yourselves, and you keep others from going in.[b]

15 You Pharisees and teachers of the Law of Moses are in for trouble! You’re nothing but show-offs. You travel over land and sea to win one follower. And when you have done so, you make that person twice as fit for hell as you are.

16 You are in for trouble! You are supposed to lead others, but you are blind. You teach that it doesn’t matter if a person swears by the temple. But you say that it does matter if someone swears by the gold in the temple. 17 You blind fools! Which is greater, the gold or the temple that makes the gold sacred?

18 You also teach that it doesn’t matter if a person swears by the altar. But you say that it does matter if someone swears by the gift on the altar. 19 Are you blind? Which is more important, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Anyone who swears by the altar also swears by everything on it.21 And anyone who swears by the temple also swears by God, who lives there. 22 To swear by heaven is the same as swearing by God’s throne and by the one who sits on that throne.

23 You Pharisees and teachers are show-offs, and you’re in for trouble! You give God a tenth of the spices from your garden, such as mint, dill, and cumin. Yet you neglect the more important matters of the Law, such as justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These are the important things you should have done, though you should not have left the others undone either. 24 You blind leaders! You strain out a small fly but swallow a camel.

25 You Pharisees and teachers are show-offs, and you’re in for trouble! You wash the outside of your cups and dishes, while inside there is nothing but greed and selfishness. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of a cup, and then the outside will also be clean.

27 You Pharisees and teachers are in for trouble! You’re nothing but show-offs. You’re like tombs that have been whitewashed.[c] On the outside they are beautiful, but inside they are full of bones and filth. 28 That’s what you are like. Outside you look good, but inside you are evil and only pretend to be good.

29 You Pharisees and teachers are nothing but show-offs, and you’re in for trouble! You build monuments for the prophets and decorate the tombs of good people. 30 And you claim that you would not have taken part with your ancestors in killing the prophets. 31 But you prove that you really are the relatives of the ones who killed the prophets. 32 So keep on doing everything they did. 33 You are nothing but snakes and the children of snakes! How can you escape going to hell?

34 I will send prophets and wise people and experts in the Law of Moses to you. But you will kill them or nail them to a cross or beat them in your meeting places or chase them from town to town. 35 That’s why you will be held guilty for the murder of every good person, beginning with the good man Abel. This also includes Barachiah’s son Zechariah,[d] the man you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 I can promise that you people living today will be punished for all these things!

[Jeff]

Gee, Daskalos can speak several languages, heal cancer, materialize and dematerialize objects including human spines, communicate with beings in the upper realms, know his past lives (and can learn about yours), can transport himself over great distances and duplicate himself a hundred fold.

Maybe it is not Daskalos whom is mistaken?

 

Sounds interesting. Let's just not call it mystical Christianity or the Holy Sipirt as Daskalos worships the the God Aton.

[rex]

Some accounts of the ecstacy of the Saints can have distinct erotic undertones, though not in the way that resembles stereotypical sexualised images of ordinary desire. Julian of Norwich and Saint Teresa come to mind.

 

The Song of Songs is distinctly erotic and can be seen as an allegory on a number of levels.

 

How one interprets and attributes the source of ecstasy is a matter of individual faith.

 

edit: tpyo

Edited January 26, 2016 by rex

[Jeff]

I believe you focus on kundalini practices. I think your ‘light transmission’ is a kundalini practice. ‘Lighting someone’s candle’ is activating their kundalini. You’re not the first to do this, and nor will you be the last. There is clearly a place for it amongst people who want to go down that road for various reasons (eg., MIME), though I personally don’t think it is valuable to cultivate kundalini directly, and I cite Ramana’s views on this, not Western narrow-mindedness.

 

But my personal view on the value of kundalini activation is not my issue here, my underlying issue is you claiming kundalini activation and merging to be mystical Christianity (or Rainbow Body, or Buddhist light body, or Daoist light body, or Rigpa, or Bodhicitta, or The Holy Spirit, or any of the other high end experiences that you cite).

 

How many Christians mystical or otherwise do you know that identify their highest self as a sexy Blonde Female and encourage others to visualise them as this if they can’t see it directly, who directly manipulate other’s kundalini energy, who work with other’s chakras, who invoke a pantheon of deities and entities both Christian and non-Christian to be present, and who merge astral energies with others during light transmissions in internet chat rooms?

 

I don’t see how you can in all honesty identify yourself as a Christian mystic, when the only Christian bit left is Jesus, and a decidedly gnostic Jesus at that, who believes and says the decidedly gnostic Christian things that you believe. 

 

Once again with the random "gnostic" stuff. Rather than your trying to label me with "demiurge" (who sounds a lot like the description of the God that Daskalos describes ), why don't we just end this silliness. I am completely fine with the description of "non-institutional Christian. Also, I totally am fine being associated with the word "kundalini" or energy of the divine feminine. You could even say "proud" to be associated with it. While mystical Christianity does not have the concept of kundalini in the classic sense, it very definitely sees the Holy Spirit as associated with the divine feminine. Also, I have no problem with the concept of Shakti, the goddess Tara, or the goddess Xi Wangmu.

 

I wish you and TI th best with your Anton worship.

[blue eyed snake]

I did find the interview with, indeed, a christian monk

 

http://thedaobums.com/topic/30995-insights-from-a-christian-monk-esoteric-christianity-as-a-legit-path/

 

 

now reading it I find:

 

 

One of the factors of Christianity that is interesting that is not found that much in many other paths is that of Ego-Death through Grace by the Holy Spirit entering the top of the head and opening all the channels and illuminating Awareness, while detaching all else. I believe I've come across something similar in my studies of Kashmir Shaivism. Also some people claim that Kundalini is the Holy Spirit, however I'm not to sure about that as Kundalini tends to be from the perenium and up the spine to the crown, whereas the Holy Spirit enters the head and goes down tot he feet. I would have to brush up on my studies however by researching the word Grace and it's existence in all the other paths

 

 

wich speaks about one of the questions that i have, as some of you may already know, i'm not much of a reader

 

Kundalini seems to be a mainly hindu 'thing' even though earlier in this thread it is made clear that the sacred discs are to be found in other cultures, including western culture. Thanks for that, i didn't know that.

 

 

The holy spirit descending, or as this man puts it: 

 

Ego-Death through Grace by the Holy Spirit entering the top of the head and opening all the channels and illuminating Awareness, while detaching all else

 

seems to be a more or less christian experience. Regardless of how we name it, whether the holy spirit is already part of us or not. it is the experience of light entering the crown and what it does to you.

Just as kundalini is the experience of snakelike energy going up your spine.

 

I remember that i once talked to some guy following the shamanic path, he called it eh... something like "receiving the white light" I would like to know if there are people around here who can come up with examples from other cultures/paths.

 

----

 

and of course, you can say that they are the same energy, in the end everything energetically is the same/ the source. Von Krankenhaus once gave a beautiful description on how the energies of the earth and the cosmos are related/intermingling/one ( i would that he repeated it here because i do not know it anymore)

 

But the original poster gave us a topic whether they are the same , or not and why. And i find that an interesting topic. As i wrote before, it is interesting because of the different ways the body-mind perceives and reacts on these energy-flows.

 

 

From Daskalus ( bolding mine)

 

There is one sacred disc at the lower end of the spine at the point where the sacrum is situated. It resembles a red snake with seven coils with its head pointing up the spinal column. But although it looks like a snake, it is really fire. It is the primordial fire within both the material body and its etheric counterpart. which constitutes the basis of material existence. According to the Scriptures it is the sword of the Archangel Michael, the "flaming sword which turned every way" (Genesis 3.24), with which the first humans were expelled from the Garden of Eden and which keeps the entity in its gross material state. It is not permitted to say more about this centre, because the awakening of the primordial fire within the material body can burn up the entire etheric double of the human being and cause the death of the material body. Only Masters can concern themselves with this sacred disc. 

 

Not only making it clear that the sacred discs are not a specifically hindu-culture thing but also  he warns against playing around with kundalini-fire ( or so i understand it) because of the inherent dangers.

 

 

 

[Jetsun]

 

The holy spirit descending, or as this man puts it: 

 

 

Ego-Death through Grace by the Holy Spirit entering the top of the head and opening all the channels and illuminating Awareness, while detaching all else

 

That is also pretty much how it it usually described in the bible. For example when Jesus was baptised by John the spirit "descended" down into him. It is also described in many other Christian texts as the descent of love, descent of the dove.

 

 

The descending movement of spirit is a different movement to the upward movement of Kundalini. You could reduce it down that it is all one spirit but the two movements have different effects on the human psyche and nervous system. The Christian focus is more on the downward movement although some Orthodox monks have suggested that the practice of the Jesus Prayer can lead to the stimulation of Kundalini type phenomena. 

[Wu Ming Jen]

Kundalini is awakening, the holy spirit is the system to mis direct and not allow the people to awaken.

[MooNiNite]

For whatever reason, I would agree with Wu Ming.

[Bindi]

I'm starting to think that both streams might be as important as each other, two different energies, one downwards, the other upwards, in an orbit that complement each other. A balance.

[Andrei]

Kundalini is awakening, the holy spirit is the system to mis direct and not allow the people to awaken.

 

I think is the other way around, kundalini once awaken will create illusions that detract from real awakening .

 

In Christianity, Kundalini is the serpent/dragon, this is what Kundalini is doing, it creates hallucinations.

 

 

Jesus's temptation is exactly same episode of Buddha's temptation:

 

 

 

If you understand that what you see is an illusion then you start to awaken.

[MooNiNite]

I think is the other way around, kundalini once awaken will create illusions that detract from real awakening .

 

In Christianity, Kundalini is the serpent/dragon, this is what Kundalini is doing, it creates hallucinations.

If you understand that what you see is an illusion then you start to awaken.

 

Good point. Can you be more specific? What type of illusions are you referring to?

[MooNiNite]

It can be difficult to understand what is an illusion and what is not an illusion.

 

Is working 9 to 5 for other people an illusion? or is it a measure of giving, ego-less, and a path of light?

 

Is leaving everything behind in an effort to follow your heart and follow your own path truth? or is it Selfish and Running-Away?

 

Doing things you dont like all day, is it being ego-less and burning karma, or is it not following your heart?

 

The list goes on. . . .

[Andrei]

I don't know, it may be what we see on a daily basis the illusion, and what we see at night the real thing.

But I tend to think now that this is real and all OBE and dreams and visions are just that, hallucinations.

Working 9 to 5 is just replacing the hunting we had to do back in the days.

Hunting was replaced by farming, then farming replaced by trades, then industry came, then working 9 to 5.

You can still leave behind working 9 to 5, you can go hunting, farming and doing all the trades you like in your garage.

Anyway I digress, I don't know which is real and which is illusion.