reification and negation

[Marblehead]

Hehehe.  They are still free.  The government hasn't figured out a way to tax them yet.

 

Remember "Tax Man" by the Beatles?

 

Tachyon was a new word for me even though I might have heard it while watching one of the Science programs.

 

Every now and then I'll be watching one of those programs and some Theoretical Physicist will say something really far out and I will yell "Bullshit" at them.

[Karl]

well being or having a tachyon sounds like some kind of medical condition although I'll with-hold judgment on the matter for now, btw. how are your 'free radicals' doing if you don't mind me asking?

 

It's always on Star Trek. Those Tachyon emissions get every where, they are the geek equivalent of wet dreams.

[3bob]

btw, I've heard that 'the price of bullshit in Burma' has gone down lately, how that affects the US stock market I don't know, it probably depends on if  their bulls are eating right or if their BS. is FUBAR because of eating genetically modified gravitons?

 

...and the only way to negate such may be to put their 'Ten Thousand' + bulls on a closely monitored colon cleansing regimen - which I'll decline volunteering for - even if it is good karma yoga along with aspects of virtue and merit.

Edited January 26, 2016 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

Well, really, bulls and cows are hole in Burma so it is understandable that there might be a population increase which would lead to an increase in BS.  They could always send it to Washington, D. C.  Those folks are constantly dishing out BS. 

 

But then if you ever visit Iowa you will realize that the US already has enough BS.

 

They could always send it to Africa as fertilizer and with enough BS they could start growing crops in the Sahara.

[3bob]

MH, those relative truths sound close to the greater Truth - btw, grades of BS may be subjective when it comes to our population but samples would still have to be tested first hand by the USDA for carcinogens. and high fructose corn syrup.

[Brian]

Well, really, bulls and cows are hole in Burma so it is understandable that there might be a population increase which would lead to an increase in BS. They could always send it to Washington, D. C. Those folks are constantly dishing out BS.

 

But then if you ever visit Iowa you will realize that the US already has enough BS.

 

They could always send it to Africa as fertilizer and with enough BS they could start growing crops in the Sahara.

Not enough to share, what with it being sent to public schools and all.

[liminal_luke]

I'm Luke's dad, it isn't any secret these days.

Oh God. Please say it isn´t so.

[Marblehead]

MH, those relative truths sound close to the greater Truth - btw, grades of BS may be subjective when it comes to our population but samples would still have to be tested first hand by the USDA for carcinogens. and high fructose corn syrup.

Yeah, we can't be feeding Mother Earth the crap the food companies are putting into our food now-a-days.

[Marblehead]

Not enough to share, what with it being sent to public schools and all.

Yep.  Teach what we tell you to teach or you get no federal funding.

[Marblehead]

I'm not sure but I think we might have gotten off topic.

 

An excellent topic, really.  I'm still waiting for a little more in-depth from Ilumairen though.

[Karl]

Oh God. Please say it isn´t so.

 

Search the force, you know it to true young young Liminal

[ilumairen]

I'm not sure but I think we might have gotten off topic.

 

An excellent topic, really.  I'm still waiting for a little more in-depth from Ilumairen though.

 

At an interpersonal level it's really about ideas of what 'should be' that don't always align with what is in any particular moment in time - expectations of behavior regarding the dynamics of interaction.

 

It's actually kind of cool that this thread meandered 'off topic' as that, in itself, has been on topic. As have the posts about (and by) Luke's father. (no offense meant)

 

I'm still trying to sort out seeing people for 'what they are', as opposed to seeing people as they are in any given moment. How much do we carry? And why? Is this beneficial? Detrimental? Both?

[Karl]

People like people like themselves. That generally holds true. In the early stages it's physical, but it includes background, interests and values. The more we differ, the less we like.

 

 

If only Luke knew the power of the objective side we would get on a lot better and rule the forum as father and son.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Karl

[ilumairen]

People like people like themselves. That generally holds true. In the early stages it's physical, but it includes background, interests and values. The more we differ, the less we like.

What would I learn if I followed your blueprint of interaction?

 

If only Luke knew the power of the objective side we would get on a lot better and rule the forum as father and son.

Imagine what would happen if you learned of the powers of his acceptance, and ability to leave people to define their own experience. He has the ability to present the phrase 'it's ok' in such a way as to extend a hand that seems to completely accept the humanity in anyone he chooses to interact with in such a way. It's actually inspiring and heart-warming to me. Edited January 28, 2016 by ilumairen

[Karl]

What would I learn if I followed your blueprint of interaction? Imagine what would happen if you learned of the powers of his acceptance, and ability to leave people to define their own experience. He has the ability to present the phrase 'it's ok' in such a way as to extend a hand that seems to completely accept the humanity in anyone he chooses to interact with in such a way. It's actually inspiring and heart-warming to me.

Firstly: it's not MY blueprint, it's been accepted as such for many years 'birds of a feather stick together'. What you learn is not down to the other person, but down to your capacity to percieve, conceive and integrate at a cognitive level. New ideas from others do play a part, but if you have a succesful life strategy then you don't go kicking over the bins to learn from someone who's ideas are in total conflict to your own. That you do come into contact with such people, through debate, books and ideas does not mean you are profoundly attracted to them, but you may come to see their strategy as something that could be adopted.

 

Second: lighten up IM, my final comment was a play on the battle which happened between Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader during a conflict on the Death Star in the film Star Wars. Not a command. You have figured out that I'm not actually Lukes father ?

 

I'm not a 'heart warming' sort of person-well my wife might disagree with that conclusion. I'm the sort of person people can initially a bit terrified to talk to, then they realise I'm really a big, soft pussy cat and very easy to get on with and have a laugh with. I often become their confidants and the resource they turn to when they get into a bind they can't figure things out for themselves. I'm very straight talking, utterly fair, honest to a fault and never ever found lacking in integrity. People I've known for a while-even those who have at one time or other disliked me-discover that I'm the genuine article, which is a big surprise for them-but not for me. :-)

 

Oh, yes, and I couldn't give a damn what anyone thinks of me, neither will I be changing to suit them. I'm perfectly happy in my own skin-I just wish the body was a bit more reliable.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Karl

[Apech]

Firstly: it's not MY blueprint, it's been accepted as such for many years 'birds of a feather stick together'. What you learn is not down to the other person, but down to your capacity to percieve, conceive and integrate at a cognitive level. New ideas from others do play a part, but if you have a succesful life strategy then you don't go kicking over the bins to learn from someone who's ideas are in total conflict to your own. That you do come into contact with such people, through debate, books and ideas does not mean you are profoundly attracted to them, but you may come to see their strategy as something that could be adopted. Second: lighten up IM, my final comment was a play on the battle which happened between Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader during a conflict on the Death Star in the film Star Wars. Not a command. You have figured out that I'm not actually Lukes father ?

 

 

Lighten up yourself.

[Brian]

What would I learn if I followed your blueprint of interaction?

 

Imagine what would happen if you learned of the powers of his acceptance, and ability to leave people to define their own experience. He has the ability to present the phrase 'it's ok' in such a way as to extend a hand that seems to completely accept the humanity in anyone he chooses to interact with in such a way. It's actually inspiring and heart-warming to me.

In my opinion, the statement "the more we differ, the less we like" is completely valid but it's reciprocal is equally valid -- the less we differ, the more we like. The path can be walked in either direction and we may turn around if we choose.

[Apech]

What would I learn if I followed your blueprint of interaction?

 

Imagine what would happen if you learned of the powers of his acceptance, and ability to leave people to define their own experience. He has the ability to present the phrase 'it's ok' in such a way as to extend a hand that seems to completely accept the humanity in anyone he chooses to interact with in such a way. It's actually inspiring and heart-warming to me.

 

I think like attracts like is a rather dull approximation - or perhaps even better it is true but does not always result in something good or creative.  I have found, experientially for instance that couples who grow to act and look alike have rather bland relationships based on similarities - 'we like the same things' etc.  There is a complementarity which goes beyond this which actually might look quite problematic on the surface but is creative.  So there are people who find additional qualities such as strength or joy which go beyond likeness.  Its possible to see these good combinations if you look for them.  This is neithr reification or negation but something else.

[Karl]

Lighten up yourself.

 

Nope ;-)

[Brian]

I think like attracts like is a rather dull approximation - or perhaps even better it is true but does not always result in something good or creative.  I have found, experientially for instance that couples who grow to act and look alike have rather bland relationships based on similarities - 'we like the same things' etc.  There is a complementarity which goes beyond this which actually might look quite problematic on the surface but is creative.  So there are people who find additional qualities such as strength or joy which go beyond likeness.  Its possible to see these good combinations if you look for them.  This is neithr reification or negation but something else.

Variety is the spice of life?

 

BTW, there's been some interesting research into early childhood development which strongly suggests the tendency to identify with "people who are like me" is a hardwired defense mechanism which can be difficult to selectively defuse unless it is recognized.

[Karl]

In my opinion, the statement "the more we differ, the less we like" is completely valid but it's reciprocal is equally valid -- the less we differ, the more we like. The path can be walked in either direction and we may turn around if we choose.

 

Isn't that exactly the same thing Brian and not its inverse ?

[Brian]

It is a matter of directionality, like the relationship between entropy and enthalpy or past vs. future.

 

EDIT: I tend not to think in terms of opposites but patterns of relationship. I used the word "reciprocal" merely to suggest a reordering.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Brian

[Karl]

It is a matter of directionality, like the relationship between entropy and enthalpy or past vs. future.

 

Still don't get it. I half see the intention in the phrase, but I'm struggling to figure out how it applies. Are you saying that people change ?

[Brian]

Still don't get it. I half see the intention in the phrase, but I'm struggling to figure out how it applies. Are you saying that people change ?

People change whether they recognize it or not. There are levels (infinite levels?) of recognition of said changes and with these levels of recognition come levels of influence over these changes. For instance, I can choose to cut my hair or let it grow. I can choose to control my weight by changing my behavior (such as simply eating a little less and moving a little more). I can affect my health to varying degrees by physical and mental changes in behavior. I can gradually change the way I feel about situations in a conscious manner and affect the way my body's chemistry and physiology are effected by those stimuli. You'll notice that the levels become more subtle and less superficial as I go. The process continues beyond those examples.

 

EDIT: Added a parenthetical clarification

Edited January 28, 2016 by Brian

[ilumairen]

Firstly: it's not MY blueprint, it's been accepted as such for many years 'birds of a feather stick together'. What you learn is not down to the other person, but down to your capacity to percieve, conceive and integrate at a cognitive level. New ideas from others do play a part, but if you have a succesful life strategy then you don't go kicking over the bins to learn from someone who's ideas are in total conflict to your own. That you do come into contact with such people, through debate, books and ideas does not mean you are profoundly attracted to them, but you may come to see their strategy as something that could be adopted.

 

I interact on a regular basis with people whose views on life, life experience, and temperment are very different than my own, and so far I haven't found anyone quite as odd as myself, so I'd be quite lonely if I went looking for a bird with matching feathers. Then again, I need some solitude to maintain balance.

 

 

Second: lighten up IM, my final comment was a play on the battle which happened between Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader during a conflict on the Death Star in the film Star Wars. Not a command. You have figured out that I'm not actually Lukes father ?

 

As my father was fond of saying,'no shit sherlock'.

 

I'm not a 'heart warming' sort of person-well my wife might disagree with that conclusion. I'm the sort of person people can initially a bit terrified to talk to, then they realise I'm really a big, soft pussy cat and very easy to get on with and have a laugh with. I often become their confidants and the resource they turn to when they get into a bind they can't figure things out for themselves. I'm very straight talking, utterly fair, honest to a fault and never ever found lacking in integrity. People I've known for a while-even those who have at one time or other disliked me-discover that I'm the genuine article, which is a big surprise for them-but not for me. :-)

 

You misunderstood me which is my own fault for not being more clear that it's the manifestations of those specific attributes noted in my post that I found heart-warming. I thought the word 'it's' would suffice. My bad, but thank you for sharing a bit more about your everday life.

 

Oh, yes, and I couldn't give a damn what anyone thinks of me, neither will I be changing to suit them. I'm perfectly happy in my own skin-I just wish the body was a bit more reliable.

 

That's not quite completely true, or you wouldn't have painted the picture of your life that you did.