Putin the Gangster. But Why Now?

[Owledge]

Rhetorical yes.

 

Without sheeple how could there be Putin? Now is that a statement of fact, a question, ridiculously dilettante or perhaps all three?

Because as I said, not much energy to invest in political debates, I'll just say that Putin dares to actually speak the truth about the imperialism that plagues the whole world, while the USA still play the rogue game of accusing others of what they themselves do.

That creates the interesting situation where many people (including in the USA) say that Putin would be awesome as US president, while Obama sucks. (It's of course hypothetical, but those politicians that the US government tends to consider enemies demonstrate an impressive degree of statesmanship and intelligent articulation, while US presidents are mostly just propaganda puppets talking bullshit all day.)

Since I haven't studied the person of Putin especially in-depth, I don't have as much sympathy for him as I have for, say, Hugo Chavez, but when one considers the respective context in which he attained a high political office, I can grant some leeway. Step-by-step improvement is good, and we should never fall into the dumb game of believing anything the US government says about its enemies. Them being what I would describe as "lying scumbags" is glaringly obvious.

 

Gah, this has already become too long. It's because of my past of immense caring for the world. (Bit cynical I guess.)

[CityHermit!]

(Why now)

Why not?

[Marblehead]

There always has to be someone to blame your inefficiencies and shortcomings on.  Putin is the perfect target.  Well, Trump is an excellent target too.

 

I mean, isn't it Trump's fault that all American cars are made in either Japan, Mexico, or Canada.

 

Recently there was a study of the ten fastest production cars on the road.  America had none qualify because our cars weren't made in America.

 

[CityHermit!]

3 minutes ago, Marblehead said:

There always has to be someone to blame your inefficiencies and shortcomings on.  Putin is the perfect target.  Well, Trump is an excellent target too.

 

I mean, isn't it Trump's fault that all American cars are made in either Japan, Mexico, or Canada.

 

Recently there was a study of the ten fastest production cars on the road.  America had none qualify because our cars weren't made in America.

 

There are indeed Russians citizens who themselves have been targeted by Putin, at the cost of their lives. What does that have to do with the inefficiencies and shortcomings of us Americans? Would you justify that because its on Russian soil and not ours? I've known dozens of Russians over the course of my life, many being friends or classmates or acquaintances in some other capacity, you think I don't hear things directly from the source?

 

Again, why not? Give me one good reason that doesn't involve some cabal conspiracy theory, and I don't want to hear nuclear power stuff either, I call that bluff too.

[windwalker]

On 1/26/2016 at 8:08 PM, Chang said:

 

So why at this point in time are fingers being pointed at Putins Russia? Is it the thread of Russian expansion and military power? Is it the situation in Syria? Is it connected with oil and gas? Is it an attempt to find a non Islamic Bogeyman?

 

Has anyone words of wisdom on this matter

 

 

Only one

 

Trump.

 

Anything, and anybody that can be used against him can and will be used against him 

 

Nature of the Beast

[CityHermit!]

1 minute ago, windwalker said:

 

 

Only one

 

Trump.

 

Anything, and anybody that can be used against him can and will be used against him 

 

Nature of the Beast

But protests against Putin were going on much earlier in the decade, before there was any talk of Trump running for/being president, which is the reason why Putin would favor Trump being president. So how does that get turned into a conspiracy to get Trump? Beyond the use of removing sanctions, repealing Magnitsky act, etc. what use is Trump to Putin? How can Trump's stance towards Putin be the only reason for some people opposing him? It doesn't all add up that simply.

[CityHermit!]

Even putting aside all ethical concerns regarding Russian citizens, just looking at it from American national security alone in long term context it makes sense. It's more about China than anything. Russia is already in decline, but China and Russia together is more a tough case on military terms. Xi is going to be in power for a while. Putin is very cozy with Xi. If there were another leader of Russia besides Putin, that might be different. So part of the confusion is interpreting antagonism towards Putin as antagonism towards Russia. The whole issue with Russia to begin with is Putin very stubbornly clinging to power, and then "favoring" circumstances that will in turn keep him in power. Arguments that try to deflect from those very obvious points have become more and more devolved into things that are very hard to demonstrate to say the least. Again, it comes back to standing up to China, but I already see where people's hearts are on that here.

[CityHermit!]

Now if you think about, Trump is actually almost with me on that, except he's probably not too familiar with important details about it. He looks at it from a position of trade, and probably not particularly in terms of dual use technology transfers until people like me mention it. He's not as familiar with the South China Sea, or the land disputes with China's neighbors, as much as he is about trade deficits. So with the knowledge he has, and the (in)ability to keep others around him, his policy can only go so far. If he supports a Putin led Russia that will cozy up to Xi, then all he is doing in terms of trade warring with China will be offset even if successful with the latter. If he doesn't stand firm with Taiwan then his position on China is near worthless. I don't care what you all think, a president with a weak stance on China is worthless to me.

[CityHermit!]

Let me add, the usefulness of NATO can go in more than one direction geographically. China would be a lot more emboldened to strike the US or a US ally without NATO than with it.

[joeblast]

Just now, CityHermit! said:

Even putting aside all ethical concerns regarding Russian citizens, just looking at it from American national security alone in long term context it makes sense. It's more about China than anything. Russia is already in decline, but China and Russia together is more a tough case on military terms. Xi is going to be in power for a while. Putin is very cozy with Xi. If there were another leader of Russia besides Putin, that might be different. So part of the confusion is interpreting antagonism towards Putin as antagonism towards Russia. The whole issue with Russia to begin with is Putin very stubbornly clinging to power, and then "favoring" circumstances that will in turn keep him in power. Arguments that try to deflect from those very obvious points have become more and more devolved into things that are very hard to demonstrate to say the least. Again, it comes back to standing up to China, but I already see where people's hearts are on that here.

Russia is in decline, Putin stubbornly clinging to power?  Wait lemme guess, and he took over Crimea too and it wasnt 95% of the population there giving the middle finger to Kiev when they sent the neo nazis down there to protest the vote even taking place.  And oh yes, he sent Russian soldiers into Dontesk and Lugansk too, and he was going to force them to join russia too, but for some reason...

 

 

.....absolutely none of that adds up, and parrots parrot shit from the bottoms of their bird cages.

 

 

Russia has been stockpiling gold like mad and is not in decline except in the feeble minds who follow the globalists' propaganda machines.  Putin has good support at home and isnt an ineffectual leader whose power is waning.  Crimea said fuck you to Kiev and seceded, as did the other 2 eastern provinces, and Russia respected each province's wishes.

 

 

But no problems at all with the West having coup'd the government in Ukraine and handing it over to EU sympathetic corruption, after the old LEGITIMATE government said the EU's deal wasnt good enough and they were going with Russia's trade offer.

 

Nope, everyone forgets that little bit - because the globalist propaganda machines dont wish for sheep to remember it.

[joeblast]

2 minutes ago, CityHermit! said:

Let me add, the usefulness of NATO can go in more than one direction geographically. China would be a lot more emboldened to strike the US or a US ally without NATO than with it.

NATO has no reason to exist.

Its amazing how when the globalists want something, their lemmings are right in line and change their opinions whichever way the globalists decide to report the wind.

[CityHermit!]

2 minutes ago, joeblast said:

Russia is in decline, Putin stubbornly clinging to power?  Wait lemme guess, and he took over Crimea too and it wasnt 95% of the population there giving the middle finger to Kiev when they sent the neo nazis down there to protest the vote even taking place.  And oh yes, he sent Russian soldiers into Dontesk and Lugansk too, and he was going to force them to join russia too, but for some reason...

 

 

.....absolutely none of that adds up, and parrots parrot shit from the bottoms of their bird cages.

 

 

Russia has been stockpiling gold like mad and is not in decline except in the feeble minds who follow the globalists' propaganda machines.  Putin has good support at home and isnt an ineffectual leader whose power is waning.  Crimea said fuck you to Kiev and seceded, as did the other 2 eastern provinces, and Russia respected each province's wishes.

 

 

But no problems at all with the West having coup'd the government in Ukraine and handing it over to EU sympathetic corruption, after the old LEGITIMATE government said the EU's deal wasnt good enough and they were going with Russia's trade offer.

 

Nope, everyone forgets that little bit - because the globalist propaganda machines dont wish for sheep to remember it.

Didn't you say you would respond to something I would post when someone else quoted me first and only then if you considered it worthwhile? What happened? This is the third time you've gone out of your way to respond to me by the way, I've never cared to quote or respond to anything you've said. Let it be known who is starting the contact.

 

That aside, again the protests against Putin were before Crimea. Putin's move on Crimea was very much in response to the perception that the West was trying to overthrow him with protests, entirely neglecting the possibility that Russian citizens might actually be displeased with him and would express it more freely if there weren't state "gangster" tactics preventing them from doing so.

 

Out of curiosity, how many Russians do you know personally and how well?

[CityHermit!]

4 minutes ago, joeblast said:

NATO has no reason to exist.

Its amazing how when the globalists want something, their lemmings are right in line and change their opinions whichever way the globalists decide to report the wind.

China is a perfectly good reason. How is China going to take on NATO?

[joeblast]

4 minutes ago, CityHermit! said:

That aside, again the protests against Putin were before Crimea. Putin's move on Crimea was very much in response to the perception that the West was trying to overthrow him with protests, entirely neglecting the possibility that Russian citizens might actually be displeased with him and would express it more freely if there weren't state "gangster" tactics preventing them from doing so.

You're right, what was I thinking - you've got a teensy tiny little context programmed into your mind and obviously cant see outside of it. 

 

How is china going to take on NATO?  the Fk?  Nato should be disbanded immediately.

[CityHermit!]

2 minutes ago, joeblast said:

You're right, what was I thinking - you've got a teensy tiny little context programmed into your mind and obviously cant see outside of it. 

 

How is china going to take on NATO?  the Fk?  Nato should be disbanded immediately.

Ready to talk Sutton yet or are you going to break down some more and assume I could give a rat's ass if you attack me personally? Is it not clear to you I couldn't care less if you do that?

 

Yes in all seriousness, how is China going to take on NATO?

[CityHermit!]

I would have thought it more obvious but I guess I should spell it out. China really wants Taiwan, China might be prepared to take Taiwan by force. If the US were involved, China would have a difficult time to escalate it through anything on US soil if NATO were still intact. A dissolution of NATO would embolden China to move on Taiwan, or elsewhere. I'm interested in containing China. I have a strong stance against China. Apparently Trump agrees with me somewhat, but just might not be as informed on the issue. Do you presume to give Trump better advice on how to deal with China?

[Kar3n]

 

[joeblast]

The One world Government cannot happen with a strong, independent USA and a strong, independent Russia.  Russia has been a geopolitical obstacle for OWG ever since Putin told the looting Oligarchs they were going to have to pay taxes on their looting.

 

[CityHermit!]

I've heard some make the argument that taking a position against another country's leader as far as overthrowing them in against national sovereignty and some would go as far as to argue for national sovereignty over the ethics of how governments treat their citizens, but that aside what about refusing to do business with such regimes? In some cases, and I've heard this argued on the Russian end, some say that this too is illegal under international law or some such. Wouldn't that be according to entities like the WTO, or perhaps the UN, which are about as globalist as can be? So how is it that Russia would need to rely on globalist entities to discuss the legality of a refusal to do business yet on the note rely on domestic views among Americans that are anti globalist? Why presume to want to have it both ways?

[CityHermit!]

1 minute ago, joeblast said:

The One world Government cannot happen with a strong, independent USA and a strong, independent Russia.  Russia has been a geopolitical obstacle for OWG ever since Putin told the looting Oligarchs they were going to have to pay taxes on their looting.

 

But a strong Russia, or rather Soviet Union, was put together by the same agenda to begin with just to built up to that purpose. And now it's not longer strong USA and strong Russia but strong USA and strong China, as Russia is declining so much as to not even fit that role anymore except in the context of an arm of China. So is the CCP justifiable in as far as it somehow appears to be an "independent" force apart from western inspired globalism? But that's already addressed and shown to be not the case as Sutton's research and later empirical events have shown. The dialectic is happening anyway and it doesn't seem to revolve at all around Russia anymore if not for Putin not giving way to other Russians to lead Russia.

[CityHermit!]

As far as things with Browder is concerned, it's called the Magnitsky and act and not the Browder act in as far as how the death of Magnitsky occurred, hence "gangster" state.

[CityHermit!]

Anyway, I have to be on call soon and I'm not even going to bother with my typos. I am still waiting for an answer as to how many Russians you know and how well. Better yet, I want to hear your approach and stance to China, what you do regarding them. I'll give you all day to answer that one.

[joeblast]

yeah, soviet union   sorry, too dipshitty to respond to.

[joeblast]

Quote

Vladimir Putin made a bombshell claim during Monday's joint press conference with President Trump in Helsinki, Finland, when the Russian President said some $400 million in illegally earned profits was funneled to the Clinton campaign by associates of American-born British financier Bill Browder - at one time the largest foreign portfolio investors in Russia. The scheme involved members of the U.S. intelligence community, said Putin, who he said "accompanied and guided these transactions."

 

Browder made billions in Russia during the 90's. In December, a Moscow court sentenced Browder in absentia to nine years in prison for tax fraud, while he was also found guilty of tax evasion in a separate 2013 case. Putin accused Browder's associates of illegally earning over than $1.5 billion without paying Russian taxes, before sending $400 million to Clinton.

 

 

 

Quote

From a report we noted in February by Philip Giraldi of The Strategic Culture Foundation:

Israel Shamir, a keen observer of the American-Russian relationship, and celebrated American journalist Robert Parry both think that one man deserves much of the credit for the new Cold War and that man is William Browder, a hedge fund operator who made his fortune in the corrupt 1990s world of Russian commodities trading.

 

Browder is also symptomatic of why the United States government is so poorly informed about international developments as he is the source of much of the Congressional “expert testimony” contributing to the current impasse. He has somehow emerged as a trusted source in spite of the fact that he has self-interest in cultivating a certain outcome. Also ignored is his renunciation of American citizenship in 1998, reportedly to avoid taxes. He is now a British citizen.

 

Browder is notoriously the man behind the 2012 Magnitsky Act, which exploited Congressional willingness to demonize Russia and has done so much to poison relations between Washington and Moscow. The Act sanctioned individual Russian officials, which Moscow has rightly seen as unwarranted interference in the operation of its judicial system.

 

Browder, a media favorite who self-promotes as “Putin’s enemy #1,” portrays himself as a selfless human rights advocate, but is he? He has used his fortune to threaten lawsuits for anyone who challenges his version of events, effectively silencing many critics. He claims that his accountant Sergei Magnitsky was a crusading "lawyer" who discovered a $230 million tax-fraud scheme that involved the Browder business interest Hermitage Capital but was, in fact, engineered by corrupt Russian police officers who arrested Magnitsky and enabled his death in a Russian jail.

 

Many have been skeptical of the Browder narrative, suspecting that the fraud was in fact concocted by Browder and his accountant Magnitsky. A Russian court recently supported that alternative narrative, ruling in late December that Browder had deliberately bankrupted his company and engaged in tax evasion. He was sentenced to nine years prison in absentia.

William Browder is again in the news recently in connection with testimony related to Russiagate. On December 16th Senator Diane Feinstein of the Senate Judiciary Committee released the transcript of the testimony provided by Glenn Simpson, founder of Fusion GPS. According to James Carden, Browder was mentioned 50 times, but the repeated citations apparently did not merit inclusion in media coverage of the story by the New York Times, Washington Post and Politico.

 

Fusion GPS, which was involved in the research producing the Steele Dossier used to discredit Donald Trump, was also retained to provide investigative services relating to a lawsuit in New York City involving a Russian company called Prevezon. As information provided by Browder was the basis of the lawsuit, his company and business practices while in Russia became part of the investigation. Simmons maintained that Browder proved to be somewhat evasive and his accounts of his activities were inconsistent. He claimed never to visit the United States and not own property or do business there, all of which were untrue, to include his ownership through a shell company of a $10 million house in Aspen Colorado. He repeatedly ran away, literally, from attempts to subpoena him so he would have to testify under oath.

 

Per Simmons, in Russia, Browder used shell companies locally and also worldwide to avoid taxes and conceal ownership, suggesting that he was likely one of many corrupt businessmen operating in what was a wild west business environment.

My question is, “Why was such a man granted credibility and allowed a free run to poison the vitally important US-Russia relationship?” The answer might be follow the money. Israel Shamir reports that Browder was a major contributor to Senator Ben Cardin of Maryland, who was the major force behind the Magnitsky Act.

 

"its a big club, and you aint in it"

-Carlin

 

 

nope, nothin shady going on here that would require pointing the finger at putin and calling him an eveil bastage so as to misdirect from the real crimes and criminals

 

 

 

 

Fox News just had Browder on and kissed his ass. 

 

 

that's how you know there's real money involved here - very sensitive things, Fox is just as willing to engage in propaganda as CNN is.

 

Just like when Fox put the kabosh on Carl Cameron's investigation into the 50+ Israelis detained after 911, or when they fired Beck for getting too intimate on the origins of the federal reserve, or judge napolitano for knowing constitutional matters too well and saying too much of it to the hoi polloi...

 

Just like when they had James Alefantis on and had Meg'n Kelly kiss his ass and apologize for anyone having discovered evidence of his crimes.

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

"So what we’ve learned in the past few days is that Bill Browder and Thor Halvorssen have ties to former M16 spies including Pablo Miller who allegedly recruited Sergei Skripal and now works for Christopher Steele, the guy who wrote the Trump dossier.  Browder also has close ties to Legatum whose staff has ties to Malta not only through the Atlantic Council but as we’ll see, through Henley & Partners’ passport program.

 

Not only that, Rebekah Mercer who helped create Cambridge Analytica was listed on Thor Halvorssen’s website but was removed only days after I archived it.  I mean, how much, if anything, did the Mercers and Steve Bannon (or even Halvorssen) know about Malta and Henley & Partners?

 

Rebekah Mercer recently joined the new, improved, and renamed Cambridge Analytica, “Emerdata Ltd,” another Alexander Nix company that lists Johnson Chun Shun Ko on the company roster.  Chun Shun Ko is an executive from Frontier Services Group, “a military firm chaired by prominent Trump supporter Erik Prince.”  Emerdata Ltd. is listed at the same address as SCL and for all you conspiracy theorists out there that can’t help yourselves enjoy this video, “Erik Prince Blackwater:  Knight of Malta Tradition.”

 

And, folks, I haven’t even gotten to Brexit yet."

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://themillenniumreport.com/2018/07/fraud-and-criminal-bill-browder-wants-to-stop-cyprus-from-revealing-his-offshore-assets-to-russia/

Quote

Browder, a US-born British investor and the founder of Hermitage Capital Management, fears that his fraudulent investment schemes involving offshore assets in Cyprus would be revealed to European authorities if Cyprus continues to cooperate with Moscow on its probe against him, Natalya Veselnitskaya, a Russian lawyer who conducted her own investigation into Browder’s operations, told RT. She added that Browder is actively trying to paint the investigation against him as politically motivated.

 

“He [Browder] is afraid of the Russian probe that has conclusive evidence of his financial crimes and proof that his theory of Magnitsky’s death is an absolute fake. That’s why Browder is ready to stage any provocation,” Veselnitskaya said. She went on to say that the investor’s decision to intervene was particularly “influenced by the fact that the entire network of offshore companies that make up his organized criminal group is located on the territory of Cyprus.”

 

The incident that Veselnitskaya was referring to took place in late October 2017. At that time, 17 members of the European Parliament appealed to Cypriot President Nikos Anastasiades in an open letter, in which they called on him to stop assisting Russia in its investigation against Browder.

The MEPs particularly expressed their concerns over the fact that “the Cypriot government is actively assisting the Russian government in furthering human rights violations through assistance with politically motivated prosecutions, in contravention of its obligations under European conventions,” as reported by the local Cyprus Mail daily.

 

Comment: That’s what the West calls it when Russia legally goes after criminals and frauds: “politically motivated human rights violations”.

 

Even though the letter carried absolutely no legal weight and could not force Anastasiades to take any measures, the MEPs still sought to exert pressure on the Cypriot authorities by stating that “the conduct of Cyprus in this case will have implications that go far beyond this case.” The letter also explicitly stated that the investigation against Browder was of a “political nature.”

 

“While every other European country, Interpol and the Council of Europe have deemed the Russian proceedings against Browder to be politically motivated, your country has taken a contrary position, and agreed to provide assistance to a Russian politically-motivated process, clearly in violation of your obligations under the rule of law,” the signatories to the letter said.

 

Just weeks before the MEPs sent their letter to the Cypriot president, Browder himself filed a request to the court of Nicosia, asking for an emergency injunction against the transfer of any data concerning his activities in the island country to Russia. According to Veselnitskaya, the letter and the application filed by Browder were “a double gambit by the criminal union between Browder and his lawyers: an attempt to interrupt the course of the investigation and interfere in the judicial process.”

 

Notably, as many as 12 out of 17 European lawmakers who signed the letter, were mentioned in the so-called “Soros list” – a document prepared for the Open Society European Policy Institute, which itself is part of the Open Society Foundations run by the US investor and hedge fund manager George Soros. The document published on the Internet after the mail server of the Open Society Foundations was hacked in 2016 lists those, whom it calls “reliable allies in the European Parliament.”

The letter’s signatories who are also “reliable allies” of Soros include socialists Ana Gomes, Pier Antonio Panzeri, and Juan Fernando Lopez Aguilar; member of the European Conservatives and Reformists Group Monica Macovei; liberals Maite Pagazaurtundua Ruiz, Petras Austrevicius and Fredrick Federley; greens Rebecca Harms and Judith Sargentini; and members of the European People’s Party Christofer Fjellner, Lars Adaktusson, and Gunnar Hokmark. Two more signatories to the letter are Anna Fotyga and Sandra Kalniete, former foreign ministers of Poland and Latvia respectively, known for their initiatives to “counteract Russian influence” in Europe.

 

In mid-October, even before the letter signed by the European lawmakers reached the Cypriot president, the Prosecution Office of Cyprus actually suspended cooperation with Russia on the investigation into the allegations against Browder. In particular, Cypriot authorities banned a Russian delegation from coming to the island in pursuit of the investigative procedures, citing the application filed by Browder, in which he claimed that the Russian investigation was politically motivated.

 

The Russian Foreign Ministry suspected the Cypriot authorities’ decision was influenced from abroad. “We have serious doubts regarding the legality of that decision, which was made public before the court issued a decision on Mr Browder’s action, as well as to whether Cyprus took the decision independently,” the ministry said in a statement.

 

Browder became known for his role in the adoption of the so-called Magnitsky Act – the 2012 US regulation that imposes sanctions on Russian individuals and companies over alleged violations of human rights. Browder actively lobbied the act in the US and then also encouraged the European countries to follow suit and also imposed sanctions on Russia over alleged human rights violations.

The investor, however, has a long history of animosity against Russia. In 2013, he was sentenced to nine years in prison in absentia for tax evasion. According to the 2013 court verdict, Browder together with his Russian auditor Sergey Magnitsky failed to pay over 552 million rubles in taxes (about $16 million). The businessman was also found guilty of illegally buying shares in the country’s natural gas giant Gazprom. According to the law enforcers, that cost Russia at least 3 billion rubles ($100 million).

Magnitsky died in pre-trial custody in 2009 after being detained as part of investigation in Browder’s fraudulent financial schemes in Russia. His death allowed Browder to present the whole case as political persecution and lobby for the adoption of the Magnitsky Act in the US.

 

Edited July 17, 2018 by joeblast

[Marblehead]

1 hour ago, CityHermit! said:

There are indeed Russians citizens who themselves have been targeted by Putin, at the cost of their lives. What does that have to do with the inefficiencies and shortcomings of us Americans? Would you justify that because its on Russian soil and not ours? I've known dozens of Russians over the course of my life, many being friends or classmates or acquaintances in some other capacity, you think I don't hear things directly from the source?

 

Again, why not? Give me one good reason that doesn't involve some cabal conspiracy theory, and I don't want to hear nuclear power stuff either, I call that bluff too.

I couldn't tell if you were agreeing with me or disagreeing.

 

Regardless,

 

It is known that we Americans have removed people who the government felt were extreme threats to the government establishment.  Of course, the were set up to appear to be accidents and no external investigations were allowed.

 

So yes, all governments do it.  Kim of North Korea was just in the news about that recently.  Didn't even try hard to cover up what really happened.

 

Nearly anyone in power is going to do whatever it takes in order to keep their power.  Doesn't matter what country they have control of.

 

My main concern is that we Americans, America in general, have lost our economic competitive edge and the only reason we are still the most powerful military force on the planet is that our government keeps borrowing money from mostly other countries.  America has lost its tax base by allowing American companies to move out of the country and them import goods tariff free While the countries they are operating in have heavy tariffs on goods we export to them.