Need help! Wanting to build a Qigong-o-meter.

[mwight]

maybe that guy who claims to be an astrophysicist can help. LOL

 

ok so anyone who has heard of qigong studies in china http://www.qi-energy.com/qigongresearch.htm

knows the masters there can produce massssive amounts of infra-sound (like 70db, vacuum cleaner level) from the center of their palms, they are also able to produce large amounts of infrared light (heat).. I have already been using an infrared thermometer to track my palms temperatures with much success, but I want to build a device that converts infra-sound to audible sound.

 

 

 

something simple, microphone---->infra-sound to audible sound conversion---->speaker

 

I am sure someone sells such a device somewhere or if not it should not be too hard to build.

 

any help from the "astrophysicist" or other technical forum members would be appreciated

[agharta]

maybe that guy who claims to be an astrophysicist can help. LOL

 

ok so anyone who has heard of qigong studies in china http://www.qi-energy.com/qigongresearch.htm

knows the masters there can produce massssive amounts of infra-sound (like 70db, vacuum cleaner level) from the center of their palms, they are also able to produce large amounts of infrared light (heat).. I have already been using an infrared thermometer to track my palms temperatures with much success, but I want to build a device that converts infra-sound to audible sound.

something simple, microphone---->infra-sound to audible sound conversion---->speaker

 

I am sure someone sells such a device somewhere or if not it should not be too hard to build.

 

any help from the "astrophysicist" or other technical forum members would be appreciated

 

 

This is too easy. Record it, then play it back at double, triple, quadruple, or whatever speed. Eventually, if you double the speed enough times, you'll have audible sound.

[thelerner]

Anne Wise is a second generation researcher on high level masters and there brain waves. Yogic, Taoist, Christian Healers, she's measured them all and found correllations that are teachable. Name multiple brain waves frequencies going on at the same time instead of just one. Its not exactly a Qigong meter but it gets close. Google her. Her series of guided meditations are very good.

 

A kindergarden version of what she does would be like that biofeedback game Journey to the Wild Divine (WildDivine.com). You hook a simple biofeedback meter to your finger and use your relaxation levels to move through the game. I played it and found it pretty easy. They have a new one out.

 

 

Michael

[mwight]

This is too easy. Record it, then play it back at double, triple, quadruple, or whatever speed. Eventually, if you double the speed enough times, you'll have audible sound.

 

 

yes I thought about that, however I need the device to do the conversion in real time, could software be written to do this?

 

Anne Wise is a second generation researcher on high level masters and there brain waves. Yogic, Taoist, Christian Healers, she's measured them all and found correllations that are teachable. Name multiple brain waves frequencies going on at the same time instead of just one. Its not exactly a Qigong meter but it gets close. Google her. Her series of guided meditations are very good.

 

A kindergarden version of what she does would be like that biofeedback game Journey to the Wild Divine (WildDivine.com). You hook a simple biofeedback meter to your finger and use your relaxation levels to move through the game. I played it and found it pretty easy. They have a new one out.

Michael

 

 

amazing stuff, every heard of a neurotrek... it uses electrical impusles to force brainwave states, supposedly it is vastly superior to binaural beat entrainment.

[agharta]

yes I thought about that, however I need the device to do the conversion in real time, could software be written to do this?

 

 

Software already exists that allows you to play music in any key. I'm not sure if what you are talking about actually exists. However, I don't see the need for real-time conversion. Either the sound is being produced, or it isn't, right? I guarantee I could design an experiment that would test this without the need for real-time conversion.

[turbo]

Google orgone meter to start your research. Reich may have beaten you to this.

[mwight]

Google orgone meter to start your research. Reich may have beaten you to this.

 

well im not sure that that 320 dollar orgone life force meter does much of anything to be honest, but I am sure it doesn't measure infrasound.

 

Thanks for the tip though. I would rather buy an $600 neurotrek to play with my brainwaves before I bought a $300 life force meter

 

but anywho thanks for the tip, if I come into some money I might buy one.

[joeblast]

well im not sure that that 320 dollar orgone life force meter does much of anything to be honest, but I am sure it doesn't measure infrasound.

 

Thanks for the tip though. I would rather buy an $600 neurotrek to play with my brainwaves before I bought a $300 life force meter

 

but anywho thanks for the tip, if I come into some money I might buy one.

the only issue with EEGs is that most anything is superficial and recording as such. not that you wont be able to collect some data, but lots more is going on that when surface EEGs can record. deep probes will pick up a much larger wealth of information...unfortunately, its not exactly an accessible area. Austin went over topics like this in Zen and the Brain...

[mwight]

the only issue with EEGs is that most anything is superficial and recording as such. not that you wont be able to collect some data, but lots more is going on that when surface EEGs can record. deep probes will pick up a much larger wealth of information...unfortunately, its not exactly an accessible area. Austin went over topics like this in Zen and the Brain...

 

oh the neurotrek is an entrainment technology which uses electrical pulses instead of binaural beats.

It is supposed to be able to force you into any brainwave state immediately. delts alpha beta theta gamma etc. dial a frequency.

[joeblast]

ah, ok.. that's not a neurofeedback device.

[mr.regular]

mwight,

 

Do you mean a meter, a machine for detecting and quantifying these vibratory/heat energies, or a generator, a machine for generating such energies.

 

If the latter, I've been thinking the same thing recently.

 

And, no, I do not think it's a crazy idea. It may not work, but it is certainly worth considering and perhaps making the attempt.

 

mr

Edited November 6, 2007 by mr.regular

[mwight]

mwight,

 

Do you mean a meter, a machine for detecting and quantifying these vibratory/heat energies, or a generator, a machine for generating such energies.

 

If the latter, I've been thinking the same thing recently.

 

And, no, I do not think it's a crazy idea. It may not work, but it is certainly worth considering and perhaps making the attempt.

 

mr

 

yes they already have such a device based after the chinese studies to emit infrasound, and infrared light in similar patterns to qigong masters. http://www.elixa.com/QiGong/Qigong.htm

 

however.. I am not wanting to generate such things. I want to use the device to listen to my own infrasound emissions for use as biofeedback, in my training.

[Jakara]

Hi im the physicist. I work at one of the top universities, so less of the "so-called" :-)

 

It depends if you want a detector or a spectrometer. Detectors are very simple, assuming you have the manufacturer's software code to interface the hardware (your detector) to some software, such as a c++ program. You can simply run an infinite loop (until you press a key) to check for "hits" of the infrared interaction then sound a "beep" when it does. Im sure it would have similar software included.

 

eg

 

while (key is not pressed)

begin

check for hit

if (hit = true)

beep

end

 

This will produce a sort of simple infrared geiger counter. If you want a spectrometer then you need to bin the response into a histogram and choose either different pitches for each energy or use a visual output like your monitor.

If you have a good quality sensor with computer interface ability then you shouldnt have a problem at all.

[mwight]

Hi im the physicist. I work at one of the top universities, so less of the "so-called" :-)

 

It depends if you want a detector or a spectrometer. Detectors are very simple, assuming you have the manufacturer's software code to interface the hardware (your detector) to some software, such as a c++ program. You can simply run an infinite loop (until you press a key) to check for "hits" of the infrared interaction then sound a "beep" when it does. Im sure it would have similar software included.

 

eg

 

while (key is not pressed)

begin

check for hit

if (hit = true)

beep

end

 

This will produce a sort of simple infrared geiger counter. If you want a spectrometer then you need to bin the response into a histogram and choose either different pitches for each energy or use a visual output like your monitor.

If you have a good quality sensor with computer interface ability then you shouldnt have a problem at all.

 

My apologies, I guess you really are an astrophysicist. I always wanted to become a physics major, since I think very visually physics and chemistry were always my favorite subjects.

 

 

 

I currently have an infrared thermometer (non-contact) and that works fine for that purpose.

However I was wanting to build something like a gieger counter for infra-sound.

 

I have heard of researches that use such devices to listen to bats etc, but I haven't been able to locate a ready-made device.

 

I have been thinking about using an oscilloscope software on a windows computer connected to a microphone that can pick up infrasonic freqs.

 

Any ideas? The cheaper the better

[joeblast]

are you trying to get some real time feedback? a program like Sonar (I know there's cheaper freeware ones out there but I dont recall presently) would allow you to pass a signal externally and run it through an appropriate processor (or have it done within the program with a virtual processor) and have the infrasound stepped down to an audible frequency.

[mwight]

are you trying to get some real time feedback? a program like Sonar (I know there's cheaper freeware ones out there but I dont recall presently) would allow you to pass a signal externally and run it through an appropriate processor (or have it done within the program with a virtual processor) and have the infrasound stepped down to an audible frequency.

 

real time would be crucial to biofeedback

[joeblast]

Find some multitrack recording freeware - you'll also have to find a VST or directX pitch shift plugin that will work with it. Some sound cards/programs will have issues keeping feedback to be real time if you're running a plugin on the channel you're inputting, though. I've got an Echo Layla24 and the earlier versions of the driver combined with Cakewalk 9 (few years back) had just enough lag in the software loop that it made real time using dX plugins unfeasible. I havent tried it with Sonar or the newer versions of the windows driver for the card, though.

[Jakara]

Apologies for the previous response, I thought you wanted to build a heat sensor, which would use infrared.

 

So do you want to build an ultrasonic (>20kiloHz) detector or an infrasonic (<20Hz) detector? Bats use ultrasound unless im mistaken, I cant see how they could produce infrasound. I cant see how qi would produce any sort of sound. I have seen thermal imaging cameras of people doing qi-gong that seem to work.

Edited November 7, 2007 by Jakara

[mwight]

Apologies for the previous response, I thought you wanted to build a heat sensor, which would use infrared.

 

So do you want to build an ultrasonic (>20kiloHz) detector or an infrasonic (<20Hz) detector? Bats use ultrasound unless im mistaken, I cant see how they could produce infrasound. I cant see how qi would produce any sort of sound. I have seen thermal imaging cameras of people doing qi-gong that seem to work.

 

 

my bad, your absolutely right bats use ultrasound. I need infrasound, not ultrasound. In the studies I have read qigong masters can produce huge amounts of infrasound 70db in some measurements.

Edited November 8, 2007 by mwight

[Jakara]

According to google, equipment does exist to measure infrasound because scientists use it to detect volcanos, earthquakes and to detect nuclear detonations. But I get the feeling this equipment will be pretty expensive so you might want to make your own. I wouldnt know how to make one but id start by thinking about what produces infrasound. Perhaps a subwoofer? You might be able to reverse a decent enough subwoofer to act as a microphone for the same frequencies. Then you'd only need to up the frequency into the audible range to listen to it.

[joeblast]

I used to have a test CD that had sine waves all the way down to 10Hz - you couldnt hear it at all, you could only see the speaking jump 10 times a second. i=Its going to be damn near impossible to pick up waveltngths like that from your body; the wavelengths are pretty long. i.e. for that 10Hz wave, the wavelength would be 34.4 meters! (113 feet) Infrasound is usually anything less than 20Hz, which is still a pretty long wavelength at 56.5 feet.

 

If you could manage to detect anything, you would probably have to be isolated from the reproduction source because playing it in the same room for instant feedback would have an extremely high chance of contaminating your measurement. You'd probably have to jack up the speakers pretty high, too - when I was messing with that stuff I was using a bass stack with an 18" and a 4x10 with a 400 watt amp...

[mwight]

According to google, equipment does exist to measure infrasound because scientists use it to detect volcanos, earthquakes and to detect nuclear detonations. But I get the feeling this equipment will be pretty expensive so you might want to make your own. I wouldnt know how to make one but id start by thinking about what produces infrasound. Perhaps a subwoofer? You might be able to reverse a decent enough subwoofer to act as a microphone for the same frequencies. Then you'd only need to up the frequency into the audible range to listen to it.

 

yeah it sounds like perhaps its out of my league. I can basic do soldering, and have a good grasp on computers, but I will probably have to quit pursuing this and stick to my infrared thermometer.

 

Anywho thanks everyone for your help.

[joeblast]

According to google, equipment does exist to measure infrasound because scientists use it to detect volcanos, earthquakes and to detect nuclear detonations. But I get the feeling this equipment will be pretty expensive so you might want to make your own. I wouldnt know how to make one but id start by thinking about what produces infrasound. Perhaps a subwoofer? You might be able to reverse a decent enough subwoofer to act as a microphone for the same frequencies. Then you'd only need to up the frequency into the audible range to listen to it.

just read through this one a little more thoroughly - since the wavelengths are so long and carry so much energy from those, seismographs are used. I dont know if its possible to get one with the combination of proper sensitivity and stringent test environment to get acceptable results.

reversing a subwoofer isnt too bad of an idea, but most of them probably wouldnt have a proper sensitivity to get results.

maybe something like a yamaha subkick? I'd looked at those for some extra bass drum oomf, but never tried one out...

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Conten...53DNEWS,00.html

[mwight]

just read through this one a little more thoroughly - since the wavelengths are so long and carry so much energy from those, seismographs are used. I dont know if its possible to get one with the combination of proper sensitivity and stringent test environment to get acceptable results.

reversing a subwoofer isnt too bad of an idea, but most of them probably wouldnt have a proper sensitivity to get results.

maybe something like a yamaha subkick? I'd looked at those for some extra bass drum oomf, but never tried one out...

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Conten...53DNEWS,00.html

 

more than likely it would have to be so sensitive it wouldn't be practical, because I am not a master, my infrasound emissions would most likely be under 1db unlike the 70db of the masters. If I win the lottery I would certainly have such a device built, along with various others, for biofeedback, but right now I am just barely getting by with a part time job, so my income is limited. I thought perhaps such a device would be simple to make, but its seems not

Edited November 8, 2007 by mwight

[julius2sleep]

Mwight,

 

Would you tell me how much is that "infrared thermometer" and how do you check the heat you emit?

 

Thanks,

 

Julius