Yin and Yang separate 'things'

[silent thunder]

Do you experience that Yin and Yang are separate 'things'?

 

Any more, I see them not as separate, or opposing things, but as the expression of Tao, interpreted as varying degrees of polar extremes and appearing separate based on a perspective, which is shaped by human senses and cognitive filters of family, culture, etc. 

 

For some time now, I have not been able to reconcile any 'things' that are separate.

 

The ten thousand things... are they separate?  For me, where I am now, it seems not.  They are more like facets to the gem of the expression of tao source and each facet may have the strong illusion to my senses of being separate, based on how I may perceive it in a given moment, yet remain unerringly part of source, never separated from it, nor independent of it.

 

 

 

 

And for the record, I have no intentions of deleting or modifying anyone's statements in conversations I initiate, ever.  If something breaks the rules of the forum, I'll let the mods handle that.  Speak your mind freely in any thread where I am the OP, please... how else do we get to the solid potential truths if we don't wade through some muck?

[Geof Nanto]

This is an important topic. To my observation yin-yang theory is poorly understood and the terms are regularly misused as if they're static qualities and can exist separately. As an introduction to what we're discussing, here is an overview of yin-yang theory from Louis Komjathy's The Daoist Tradition that clarifies the distinction made between the yin-yang theory of traditional Chinese cosmology and the different meaning of yin and yang in internal alchemy lineages…..

 

The foundational Daoist cosmology parallels that of pre-modern Chinese society and culture, and it centers on yin-yang and the Five Phases. This cosmology is not Daoist per se. It is best understood as "traditional Chinese cosmology" or part of the dominant "traditional Chinese worldview," as it was the primary cosmological viewpoint in traditional China. It was, in turn, employed in various indigenous systems, such as those of Confucianism, Daoism, and Chinese medicine. Historically speaking, this correlative cosmology, also referred to as the system of correspondences, was systematized by Zou Yan (ca. 305-240 BCE) and within the so-called Yinyang jia (Family of Yin-yang). The latter "school" is often referred to as the "Cosmologists" or "Naturalists" in Western language publications, and it was part of the intellectual and cultural diversity of the Warring States period (480-222 BCE) and Early Han dynasty (206 BCE-9 CE). While such a cosmology is not Daoist per se, it is often misidentified as such because Daoism is one of the few places were the view remains prominent in the contemporary world.

 

This cosmology is based on the principles and forces of yin-yang, which we encountered in the classical Daoist cosmogonic accounts. Etymologically speaking, yin a depicts a hill (fu) covered by shadows (yin), while yang depicts a hill (fu) covered by sunlight (yang). At the root level, yin and yang are ways of speaking about the same place at different times or moments of the day. Yin and yang are not "polar opposites" or antagonistic substances; they are, in fact, complementary principles, aspects, or forces. As the characters suggest, yin and yang are used to represent different dimensions of the same phenomenon or situation. By extension, there are various associations:

 

 Yin/female/earth/moon/dark/death/cold/moist/heavy/turbidity/descent/rest/inward                yang/male/heavens/sun/light/life/hot/dry/light/clarity/ascent/activity/outward

 

At times, "yin" is also used to designate "negative" or harmful aspects of life more generally (immorality, ugliness, disease, etc.), while "yang" becomes related to "positive" or beneficial aspects of life (morality, beauty, health, etc.). What must be emphasized is that these are relative associations, not absolute characteristics. They do not parallel conventional views of so-called "good" and "evil" as distinct ontological categories. Just because women are considered "yin" in one respect or in one context, it does not follow that they are also "immoral" or "turbid." There are also varying degrees of yin and yang in every phenomenon, in each moment or experience, and in every being. So, certain men may be more yin than certain women, and vice versa. People in one context may be more yang (e.g. talkative or hot), while in another that same person may be quite yin (e.g. quiet or cold). Because the universe is understood as a transformative process (zaohua), this also means that any negative or harmful pattern or manifestation may be transformed into a positive or beneficial pattern or manifestation. In the context of a classical Chinese worldview in general and Daoism in particular, life is seen as depending on the mutually beneficial interaction of yin and yang. Even when Daoists speak of entities like "demons" (mo) or "ghosts" (gui), they generally understand them to be a momentary, unresolved energetic pattern capable of transformation into a more beneficial pattern. Generally speaking, such beings are not irrevocably lost or distorted. A skilled Daoist priest may assist their transformation.

 

Here we should also note that yin and yang take on specific and alternative meanings in certain contexts. For example, in many internal alchemy lineages, yin appears to be defined negatively, while yang appears to be defined positively. A distinction must be made between yin-yang as cosmological principles, and yin-yang as alchemical map, specifically as a map of alchemical transformation. That is, there are cosmological and alchemical interpretations and applications of yin-yang, with the associations varying depending on system and context. The cosmological dimension cannot be changed—it is the underlying structure of cosmos. However, on an existential and alchemical level, yin may designate mortality, defilements, delusion, and so forth; Yang may designate immortality, purity, realization, and so forth. Internal alchemists thus frequently speak of transforming yin into yang, of becoming a yang-spirit, a pure yang being. This does not mean that one transcends the foundational cosmological harmony ofyin and yang. In fact, classical Daoism and the foundational Daoist worldview urge one to "embrace the feminine", understood as correlative with "yin qualalities" (flexibility, passivity, receptivity, silence, etc.). Rather, it means that the internaI  alchemist works to become a perfected being in which all negative characteristics have been transformed into their positive counterparts.

[opendao]

Here we should also note that yin and yang take on specific and alternative meanings in certain contexts. For example, in many internal alchemy lineages, yin appears to be defined negatively, while yang appears to be defined positively. A distinction must be made between yin-yang as cosmological principles, and yin-yang as alchemical map, specifically as a map of alchemical transformation. That is, there are cosmological and alchemical interpretations and applications of yin-yang, with the associations varying depending on system and context. The cosmological dimension cannot be changed—it is the underlying structure of cosmos. 

 

The concept of Yin-Yang is more complex: 

 

1) in Xian Tian (Preheaven) there is no Yin-Yang, so the hidden real cosmos is free from the law of Taiji

 

2) Alchemical and other interpretations, when they are correct, can be different, because the ancient sages have seen the dynamic of changes: Taiji - Liang Yi - Si Xiang ... - Wan Wu

 

So on every level Yin and Yang are different.

 

However, on an existential and alchemical level, yin may designate mortality, defilements, delusion, and so forth; Yang may designate immortality, purity, realization, and so forth. Internal alchemists thus frequently speak of transforming yin into yang, of becoming a yang-spirit, a pure yang being. This does not mean that one transcends the foundational cosmological harmony ofyin and yang. In fact, classical Daoism and the foundational Daoist worldview urge one to "embrace the feminine", understood as correlative with "yin qualalities" (flexibility, passivity, receptivity, silence, etc.). Rather, it means that the internaI  alchemist works to become a perfected being in which all negative characteristics have been transformed into their positive counterparts.

 

Classical Daoism speaks about "embracing yin" at one stage, but become fully Yang and free of Yin-Yang influences later.

 

Yin and Yang are separated, but connected. They affect and change each other, but they are not One.

 

Wan Wu, 10000 things are affected by Taiji law: the fight and change each other.

 

When people feel unity of everything, they realize the Qi, which is really everywhere.

But inside that underlying background there are dualities and separation, this is the basis of Daoist cosmology.

[vonkrankenhaus]

Dualism - seeing two things, one or the other.

 

Monism - seeing one thing.

 

"Dulaistic Monism" - seeing complimentary/antagonistic aspects of One.

 

This is how we can using our mind understand things by blowing apart into paired tendencies.

 

We see a "table", for example.

 

We see top and bottom.

 

We see one side and another.

 

Many others too - hard and soft, front and back.

 

We are seeing one table.

 

We are differentiating with our mind as a way of seeing unity.

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[silent thunder]

It seems that my perspective is always at the heart of what drives the nature of 'this' and 'that' and then my mind, based on how I filter perspective analyzes and I define opposites. 

 

I can't grab a one sided stick, if I split a stick down the middle I still grab a whole stick, though its shape has been altered...  yet I need a hand to grab a stick and they seem separate to my mind and my senses, I can't chew my own teeth, or close my eyes and look at my own eyeballs. 

 

To my senses and my mind, my son, sitting at his computer across from me, appears like a separate human, yet as we just did a few hours ago, scrape his skin and put it under a microscope and we are a community of trillions of other 'separate' cells.

 

I remember vividly when I lived up North and experienced the four seasons... in Fall, 35 degrees felt chilly and I'd wear a jacket outside.  In Spring, after six to eight weeks of -10, when it got up to 35 we were running around in t-shirts...

 

It really seems like my experiential awareness, based on my cognitive and sensual filters, is behind the very idea of yin and yang.  Without senses, without mind, without analysis, is there appreciable yin and yang, or just the one process, playing out in myriad expression and the mostly illusory and projective nature of my mind, that sets up all these seemingly static things that become so easily labeled as 'this' and 'that', apparently either at odds with one another, or in harmonious support depending on how I interpret it? 

 

Always nagging me with this of late is the Naive Realism aspect to it.  I don't necessarily sense the world as it is, nor do I necessarily interpret what I sense accurately... every perception is a gamble and an interpretation...

[dwai]

Do you experience that Yin and Yang are separate 'things'?

 

Any more, I see them not as separate, or opposing things, but as the expression of Tao, interpreted as varying degrees of polar extremes and appearing separate based on a perspective, which is shaped by human senses and cognitive filters of family, culture, etc. 

 

For some time now, I have not been able to reconcile any 'things' that are separate.

 

The ten thousand things... are they separate?  For me, where I am now, it seems not.  They are more like facets to the gem of the expression of tao source and each facet may have the strong illusion to my senses of being separate, based on how I may perceive it in a given moment, yet remain unerringly part of source, never separated from it, nor independent of it.

 

 

 

 

And for the record, I have no intentions of deleting or modifying anyone's statements in conversations I initiate, ever.  If something breaks the rules of the forum, I'll let the mods handle that.  Speak your mind freely in any thread where I am the OP, please... how else do we get to the solid potential truths if we don't wade through some muck?

Yin always has some yang and yang always some yin. It is experienced that way too...as we are expanding, there is also a contraction active. As we are contracting, there is also an expansion active. In fact any opposite cannot be "separate" from it's "other", because the "other" defines it. And vice versa...

[Geof Nanto]

An interesting post from Nungali (http://thedaobums.com/topic/40193-the-magician-card/?p=666384)......

 

So   ,   duality can be expressed by black and white 

 

 

 

but some prefer black and red. 

 

 

 

so really, the dragon can be red , or black , or one red dragon and one black dragon .

 

Down here , the black is heaven (night sky) and the red is earth  ( cause we got a lot of red earth )  . 

 

So, whether it is 'paired forces' in  biodynamics, or 'working the middle pillar' or even. maybe, the 'inner serpent '(dragon ?)  the 'trick' (the blending of the forces) seems to be in interpenetration  (hence first pic above )  , in biodynamics, its about bringing  the  roots energy ) 'earth'  up into the plant and the leaves energy ( from 'heaven' - 'cosmic forces' ) down into the roots.   

 

A reversal of sorts, but not a 'misplacement' .  

 

So as well as the earth red dragon sitting 'up top'   ..... is it too far a stretch to see a similarity in the  'snakey'  'border' barrier between black and white 

 

 

 

as a bit like 

 

  

 

"So as well as the earth red dragon sitting 'up top'   ..... is it too far a stretch to see a similarity in the  'snakey'  'border' barrier between black and white."

 

The Dragon Motif

 

The dragon is one of China's richest symbols - tension at the heart of life, variation through alternation, inexhaustible transformation and animating power - all are aspects embodied by the dragon as it surges forward. The dragon is at once yin within yang and yang within yin. Its body is constantly transformed but never exhausted: a finer embodiment of alternation as the driving force of continuity could not be imagined.

 

The body of the dragon concentrates energy in its sinuous curves, and coils and uncoils to move along more quickly. It is a symbol of all the potential with which form can be charged, a potential  that never ceases to be actualized. The dragon now lurks in watery depths, now streaks aloft to the highest heavens, and its very gait is a continuous undulation. It presents an image of energy constantly recharged through oscillation from one pole to the other. The dragon is a constantly evolving creature with no fixed form; it can never be immobilized or penned in, never grasped. It symbolises a dynamism never visible in concrete form and thus unfathomable. Finally, merging with the clouds and the mists, the dragon’s impetus makes the surrounding world vibrate: it is the very image of an energy that diffuses itself through space, intensifying its environment and enriching itself by that aura.

 

Oscillation through alternation of yin and yang, symbolized by the dragon, is the great regulatory principle of this dynamism. It is thus a constant motif of Chinese thought. 

 

(Adapted from François Jullien, The Propensity of Things.)

 

[The well-known Tiger yin, Dragon yang presents symbolism that is also well worth exploring, especially Tiger yin.]

 

Edited January 30, 2016 by Yueya