No-Thought-State / Two Questions

[Rocco]

I have seen the nice video "Spiritual Reality", in which it is taught how to concentrate on the breath to reach the no-thought-state. Two questions I have:

 

1. I  tried it and was I shocked,that the breath really (as told in the vid) almost stops (which always pulls me out of that state). Can that be harmful?

 

2. When I'm getting closer to the no-thought-state, I feel pressure on my head and my perineum cramps. That also disturbs my meditation. Am I doing something wrong?

 

Thank you!

Edited February 4, 2016 by Rocco

[Apech]

Forget no-thought.

[Rocco]

Forget no-thought.

Cool! Why?

[Apech]

Cool! Why?

 

 

Well its totally up to you to decide of course - but to conceptualise your practice as being about no-thought is a dead end.  So either abandon it as a goal or even if you keep it as a goal - forget it.

[Jeff]

I have seen the nice video "Spiritual Reality", in which it is taught how to concentrate on the breath to reach the no-thought-state. Two questions I have:

 

1. I  tried it and was I shocked,that the breath really (as told in the vid) almost stops (which always pulls me out of that state). Can that be harmful?

 

2. When I'm getting closer to the no-thought-state, I feel pressure on my head and my perineum cramps. That also disturbs my meditation. Am I doing something wrong?

 

Thank you!

 

No, you are not doing anything wrong. You are just starting to notice some of the subconscious thoughts/energy flows at deeper levels of consciousness in your mind. Think of it more like no thought at a certain depth in the mind, there is always more stuff "underneath" it that you will start to notice as you clear out stuff.

 

Most likely you will find that what you are feeling is probably associated with some fear or issue. Maybe try sitting with it for a while when it comes up and see if you find that it is associated with any memory or feelings.

[Spotless]

Remember to breath - In the initial stages in particular of practice - breathing will help you to stay in your body and in the center of your head and out of trance.

 

That vid is excellent - but remember it encapsulates what can be many many many years of practice and a view of levels of unfoldment.

 

The no thought state has eluded so many that it is considered as somewhat boastful and nearly if not completely impossible.

It is not impossible and is entirely attainable.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Spotless

[Small Fur]

Hi- could someone post a link to the video in this thread for reference? Thank you.

[Spotless]

 

 

There you go - the link!

Edited February 8, 2016 by Spotless

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Don't focus on 'not thinking'. Focus on being calm, clear and focused - thought will gradually reduce in a natural, healthy way. If you actively try to stop thinking, you'll just be suppressing thought when what you need to be doing is training the mind to actually like being quiet. How? Again: http://www.wildmind.org/mindfulness

 

Your breathing will also become subtler by itself. It's nothing to worry about, as your mind settles further you need less oxygen. It's just the opposite of what happens to your breathing when you're stressed.

[Jetsun]

Thought arises within the no thought space you are seeking, so what you are looking for is already here.

[Spotless]

I have seen the nice video "Spiritual Reality", in which it is taught how to concentrate on the breath to reach the no-thought-state. Two questions I have:

 

1. I  tried it and was I shocked,that the breath really (as told in the vid) almost stops (which always pulls me out of that state). Can that be harmful?

 

2. When I'm getting closer to the no-thought-state, I feel pressure on my head and my perineum cramps. That also disturbs my meditation. Am I doing something wrong?

 

Thank you!

 

In general for the most part make a point of breathing - not sporadically when you reach the point you have reached but the entire time. Breath into the abdomen with the tip of the tounge touching the forward upper palate as if you just said the word "bite", jaw relaxed. Maintain your awareness roughly in the center of your head and assuming you have the posture stuff well in hand you will find initially (and for many years) that as the processes of meditation occur you will be able to maintain awareness through the more difficult times - usually lasting no more than 5 minutes.

 

Eventually and for some time you will have lots of popping sounds and cracking going on as higher finer maintained vibration breaks apart core energy compressions (core pictures with varying degrees of life force wrapped up in them and compressed).

 

 

[XAOX]

From my experience, the breath does become so subtle and appears to cease, nothing to fear, or worry about, the more it occurs, the more you will acclimate to "no breath".

[allinone]

breathing seemingly stops because your consciousness or self isn't there anymore. Its like when your consciousness is in some place then it can result in all sorts of symptoms on skin, heart beat, the things you think.

 

voice that speaks is in throat/mouth, then there is a music or thoughts what are heard in the background its in the ears. And your own thinking is the real or actual. Find the actual shut it down and then breath can go up from throat by single inbreath.

[RigdzinTrinley]

Thought or non thought

 

Breath or non breath both miss the point and are the point without being a point above or beneath the point

 

There is no point that's the point and not the point

 

True mediation is thought by a true lineage guru (whichever lineage really)

 

Before that is introduced its all about this state or that state going deeper or staying shallow...

 

Just continue, that's the message I got always when I came to my teachers with this or that experience (I stopped doing that because I guess they will say "just continue")

 

Just walk on

 

Experiences are like mist they will evaporate

[Songtsan]

The almost breathless state is interesting. I can get there by simply deciding not to add or subtract to the breathing. Soon there is barely any movement of the diaphragm and almost no perceptible movement of air in/out of the nostrils. It does not seem to be harmful. In the Secret of the Golden Flower, it says to keep the mind on the breath and the breath in mind. This would seem to lead to no-thought, and also some type of state of rhythmic entrainment and associated state of relaxation which would result in a drop in metabolic rate and thus the state of barely breathing. People have straight up held their breath for over 20 minutes, so nearly not breathing should be able to be done for at least that long safely.  

[Moonbar]

The funny thing about the no thought/no mind state is that you only realize you were there when you come out of it if you think you're in it - you're not in it.

[Spotless]

The funny thing about the no thought/no mind state is that you only realize you were there when you come out of it if you think you're in it - you're not in it.

 

I would not agree with this statement.

 

In quiet awareness it is obvious you are in it - somewhat like sitting outside listening to crickets and suddenly they stop and the quiet is exquisite.

[Moonbar]

I would not agree with this statement.

 

In quiet awareness it is obvious you are in it - somewhat like sitting outside listening to crickets and suddenly they stop and the quiet is exquisite.

 

Perhaps we are thinking of different states, no mind vs quiet awareness.

I can only comment on my own experiences with no mind ... quiet awareness is not something I've worked towards.

Sounds interesting though

[lino]

Well its totally up to you to decide of course - but to conceptualise your practice as being about no-thought is a dead end.  So either abandon it as a goal or even if you keep it as a goal - forget it.

People usually have more than 92% no thought. That is without even trying. Every single thing is a dead end. All of this trash leads to nothing. Spirituality is not how the world works.

[EmeraldHead]

The funny thing about the no thought/no mind state is that you only realize you were there when you come out of it if you think you're in it - you're not in it.

I would agree, deep concentrated mental state of meditation. If one reaches no thought through meditation (lots of yin for the consciousness) one is not able to see themselves think, not lucid enough. If one reaches it through concentration practice they may reach degress of no thought gradually in daily life, where they only have to pay attention and see where they are at..