A New Global Industry

[Brian]

Seems the printing of Venezuelan currency has become a new global industry. Wonder what the government is using to pay the print shops. (I doubt it is in Bolivars...)

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/venezuela-orders-bank-notes-by-the-planeload/ar-BBp6pM9

[Owledge]

Not saying that that particular article is dubious, but it's generally worth pointing out that there's war going on against Venezuela, including informationen warfare.

Part of that money-printing industry might be US-.government backed crime syndicates. Printing counterfeit money is a well-known tactic in that effort. After all, it's no secret that they try to ruin Venezuela by any means.

I was worried/saddened when I recently heard how much influence the political opposition has gained. There's just so much mind control warfare going on. First the great Satan ruins a country, then it offers "the solution" to that to the dissatisfied people.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Owledge

[thelerner]

I don't think Venezuelan economic policies needed outside influences to result in chaos.  When windfalls of oil money was flowing in times were good but the extreme socialist/communistic/personality cult driven laws and economic policies are damning. 

 

State run cronyism killed off golden gooses, price controls lead, as always, to shortages.   Nature played a roll too.   Nasty drought hurt agriculture and devastated the hydro-electric plants.  

[Karl]

Once socialism is introduced it's the beginning of the end. That's what Venezuela did. Nationalisation-trampling over property rights then stealing and distributing what was never fairly earned. Fastest elevator to disaster.

 

[Owledge]

@thelerner @Karl

Wow, you are severely indoctrinated by US propaganda. The reason Venezuela has such a hard time is not socialism. Socialism is actually the reaction to the attempts of the USA's militant super-capitalism to exploit the country as they try with the whole world. It is the constant onslaught of that mindset on the country that creates the problems and then blames the solution for not being successful enough to withstand.

This is obvious to anybody who studied world politics and propaganda. The USA have a consistent track record that speaks for itself. They are waging war on Venezuela, and now the policy of the Venezuelan government to act relatively moderately towards the opposition instead of just declaring them the poisonous and malicious influence that they are results in a severe hit to the policies that were improving people's lives as much as they could.

Corruption is still a problem, but that's the inherited corruption from pre-socialist times.

 

Nationalisation, trampling over proptery rights? Why not talk about the opposite side of that: Banks and corporate interests scamming the People out of national wealth? Privatization is the other side, and that's actually theft, because it is being coerced through economic pressures created by the banks' pyramid scheme. What Venezuela did was taking back what belongs to the People and has been stolen from them in the first place.

[AussieTrees]

Quote,Nungali.

 

"They should cut out the middle man,and let you print your own."

[Karl]

@thelerner @Karl

Wow, you are severely indoctrinated by US propaganda. The reason Venezuela has such a hard time is not socialism. Socialism is actually the reaction to the attempts of the USA's militant super-capitalism to exploit the country as they try with the whole world. It is the constant onslaught of that mindset on the country that creates the problems and then blames the solution for not being successful enough to withstand.

This is obvious to anybody who studied world politics and propaganda. The USA have a consistent track record that speaks for itself. They are waging war on Venezuela, and now the policy of the Venezuelan government to act relatively moderately towards the opposition instead of just declaring them the poisonous and malicious influence that they are results in a severe hit to the policies that were improving people's lives as much as they could.

Corruption is still a problem, but that's the inherited corruption from pre-socialist times.

 

Nationalisation, trampling over proptery rights? Why not talk about the opposite side of that: Banks and corporate interests scamming the People out of national wealth? Privatization is the other side, and that's actually theft, because it is being coerced through economic pressures created by the banks' pyramid scheme. What Venezuela did was taking back what belongs to the People and has been stolen from them in the first place.

 

Socialism is always and everywhere a failure. There isn't any point in trying to argue differently. Whatever you think the US is doing, it pales into insignificance when a country runs into the arms of full on socialism. No matter how bad the USA is, no matter how bad State backed US banks are, it is not them that are wrecking the Venezuelan economy, it's the direction of travel of the politics.

 

No property rights=no wealth. Economic armageddon. Always was, always will be.

[thelerner]

Karl and I may be sipping capitalist propaganda, but your swigging Chavez's revolutionary crazy.  And that stuff is poisonous.

 

I'm in the middle here.  I think socialism as done in Europe can work, bumpy but there's no perfect system and at least during the bumps most people are doing pretty well. 

 

Chavez was charismatic leader who had no economic sense.  I'd argue he was more a Russian style communist then European style Socialist.  You can blame banks and corporations all day long but Chavez set in place conditions that  would destroy his (or any) nation economically.  Price controls creates shortages, always, sometimes slowly if you have an economic sugar daddy like expensive oil, but eventually price controls spin out of control.  Just as gravity brings things down, price controls create black markets, crime and shortages.

 

He nationalized companies, and competence was a distant second to complete dedication to him.  In any company or nation that's a recipe for disaster.  Even before the oil prices dropped, Venezuelan's oil profits were heading down.  Repairs and infrastructure weren't being made.  In an industry that requires experts he had employed friends and ideologues who had little experience.   With the right tax structure, you don't need to nationalize, keep the profits, but also hold on to experts from other countries who know how to run it. 

 

He continually blamed his failings on Western boogey men, but in truth, no country could survive Chavez's policies.  He wasn't all bad, he raised the living standard for the poor, but in the end, he crushed everybody economically and became a paranoid dictator, closing down the free press, imprisoning the opposition and stifling democracy.  

Edited February 7, 2016 by thelerner

[Owledge]

@Karl

You haven't studied world politics properly then. Socialism never worked for several reasons, all either directly or indirectly caused by capitalist interests. Socialism sets an example, and those whose interests are threatened by it will always try to fight it. Corruption can be used as a weapon, and is a natural one, since corruption and capitalism stem from the same roots.

 

Since this is a spiritual forum, I suggest looking into core psychology. Capitalism puts money and owning stuff on a pedestal. It is about the perception of not having enough, needing more, fighting others for it. I.e. egotism, i.e. antisocial and sociopathic, i.e. rooted in fear.

Socialism is about the social aspect. It acknowledges that the human experience is about people. All systems are creations by people and not caring about (ideally) everybody will always hurt the future happiness of everybody. If you don't put the people first, you are disrespecting yourself and serving death out of fear. Socialism is rooted in love.

 

Try to be a loving personality when everybody around you is trying to kill you. And then listen to people like you who say love is a problem and will never help humankind, ignoring a long track record that says otherwise, but can easily be discarded by those who only focus their attention at the fear.

 

Those who are not strong enough to serve love will serve fear and thus fight love.

Everybody has to make a decision about a general direction in life that dictates choices: into the light or into darkness.

 

I have stopped having compassion for people who made conscious choices to serve darkness because it is convenient. I couldn't maintain it anymore. I had to start respecting free will, including the free will to serve fear. And I will give appropriate feedback with shaping a better world for those who work towards it in mind.

[Owledge]

@thelerner

"closing down the free press, imprisoning the opposition and stifling democracy."

See, that's the distortions that are abundant in the corporate media and why you can't use them as information source on such topics.

 

He didn't close down the "free press", but didn't extend a license for a media business that was attacking the government with lies and slander as part of a US agenda to topple the government. And that was AFTER such media actually tried to topple the government with lies and incitement.

 

"imprisoning the opposition" - Yeah, you know, when you oppose the government in a way that breaks the law, you land in prison. Plotting assassinations isn't exactly freedom of expression. But in the corporate media, of course those who cross the very lenient line are innocent freedom fighters for democracy and all that bullshit.

 

"stifling democracy" - What the West calls democracy is a joke; a facade, and that is what they want to spread.

(Just recently we got another example of how the cronies don't even try to hide the fact that US elections are being bought. They seem to have switched to the demotivating approach: 'Yes, we own you, but you can't do anything about it.')

 

How much more overwhelming bullshit are people willing to swallow before they find the courage to look at the real problem?

People could begin humbly by following an old saying: "Don't throw rocks when you're living in a glass house."

 

The US government is a criminal organisation comparable to any mafia. This is proven, documented, and has been for a very long time, but people don't like that kind of uncomfortable reality.

Yet, according to polls the majority agrees that the USA are the biggest threat to world peace. But as we know, the majority is not what determins politics. (It was shown in a scientific study that the People in the USA have virtually no influence on US politics.)

[thelerner]

Socialism is about the social aspect. It acknowledges that the human experience is about people. All systems are creations by people and not caring about (ideally) everybody will always hurt the future happiness of everybody. If you don't put the people first, you are disrespecting yourself and serving death out of fear. Socialism is rooted in love.

While I like this sentiment and there's truth to it.   There are the day to day nuts and bolts of an economy.  And Capitalism- private ownership of businesses, land, productivity with bosses, workers in conjunction with market forces get the most goods out of the system.  Human nature means people work harder when they can get personal gains out of it.  Without benefits from working, there is stagnation, less is produced.

 

In my view the best countries are Socialist and they use capitalism.  The worst were communist which devolved into brutal dictatorships.  The US is fairly socialist to be honest.  Not as far as Western Europe but more or less evolving in that direction, mostly-ish, in the long run.  And I'm glad of that.  The U.S is wealthy enough to have a better social net and our medical system pays twice as much and gets 10th place care for it.  

 

Still Socialism runs the risk of letting the people vote for so much bread, circus and leisure that it kills the engines of production.  If you like modern living don't diss the engines of production.   The U.S has vitality, creativity.. capitalism has its fruits but (imo) if uncontrolled its nasty side of moving toward feudalism and social imbalance. 

 

To me there's a sweet spot, I think some of the Northern European countries have found it.  Keeping the  two most important things good living standards and freedom. 

 

 

later addon> Owledge I highly get the feeling you're not from Venezuela.  Correct me if I'm wrong.  If you were I get the feeling you'd be much less a fan. 

 

also, while I rarely agree with Karl, he undoubtedly has an excellent education (misused, sorry) in world politics. 

 

 

The OP article about bringing in "Millions of pounds of provisions, stuffed into three-dozen 747 cargo planes, arrived here from countries .. But instead of food and medicine, the planes carried another resource that often runs scarce here: bills of Venezuela’s currency, the bolivar." was inevitable.   Chavez's policies destroyed that nation from the toilet paper on up.  Sorry, for the Venezuelans but that's the way it is.   And until they take painful economic measures that EMBRACE CAPITALISTIC realities, they'll continue to be very bad.   

 

Thankfully intelligent compassionate socialist concern and capitalistic creation can work hand in hand. 

Edited February 7, 2016 by thelerner

[Karl]

@Karl

You haven't studied world politics properly then. Socialism never worked for several reasons, all either directly or indirectly caused by capitalist interests. Socialism sets an example, and those whose interests are threatened by it will always try to fight it. Corruption can be used as a weapon, and is a natural one, since corruption and capitalism stem from the same roots.

 

Since this is a spiritual forum, I suggest looking into core psychology. Capitalism puts money and owning stuff on a pedestal. It is about the perception of not having enough, needing more, fighting others for it. I.e. egotism, i.e. antisocial and sociopathic, i.e. rooted in fear.

Socialism is about the social aspect. It acknowledges that the human experience is about people. All systems are creations by people and not caring about (ideally) everybody will always hurt the future happiness of everybody. If you don't put the people first, you are disrespecting yourself and serving death out of fear. Socialism is rooted in love.

 

Try to be a loving personality when everybody around you is trying to kill you. And then listen to people like you who say love is a problem and will never help humankind, ignoring a long track record that says otherwise, but can easily be discarded by those who only focus their attention at the fear.

 

Those who are not strong enough to serve love will serve fear and thus fight love.

Everybody has to make a decision about a general direction in life that dictates choices: into the light or into darkness.

 

I have stopped having compassion for people who made conscious choices to serve darkness because it is convenient. I couldn't maintain it anymore. I had to start respecting free will, including the free will to serve fear. And I will give appropriate feedback with shaping a better world for those who work towards it in mind.

Oh dear me. It's socialism that is rooted in hatred. It is hatred of the good because it's the good.

What don't you get about all those millions upon million killed by Stalin, what about the abject poverty compared to the capitalistic West ? Do you honestly think it failed because it was badly implemented after all those numerous purges, death squads, KGB, doctored books, films and art ?

Wake up and smell the blood and the stench of poverty.

 

Where is the love ? None, nil. Death and misery, sacrifice and duty are all that lives in that dark, evil hell.

 

What socialism promises it cannot deliver. The philosophy that underpins it is anti-life.

 

It should be added that Western capitalism isn't really capitalism at all, it's a hybrid of fascistic big business cronyism, some semblance of demeaned laissez faire and a big slab of socialistic welfare wealth distribution. It's still better than pure communism, but it isn't capitalism as such.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Karl

[Karl]

While I like this sentiment

 

also, while I rarely agree with Karl, he undoubtedly has an excellent education (misused, sorry) in world politics.

 

 

Thankfully intelligent compassionate socialist concern and capitalistic creation can work hand in hand.

Who doesn't like the sentiment ? It sounds fantastic. I was attracted to it when I was younger and was an active campaigner for equality for everyone. I disliked money and capitalism with a passion and wanted everything nationalised. Our entire family were socialists, we hated Thatcher and always voted Labour. Hell, I definitely know how seductive it can be. Those profit taking bosses and us poor workers. Heck, I worked in a factory where the canteen was divided so that us scruffy oiks didn't upset the white collar bosses.

 

I have too much time on my hands ;-) I really knew nowt until I packed in my job 4 years ago and then caught up.

 

They only work hand in hand for a while. That's the point. Eventually they must and do fail. The crony capitalists that make it all work get too greedy, the state gets too ambitious, then the production cannot support the burden and gets increasingly sick until it just quits like a knackered horse pulling an enormous cart up a steepening hill.

 

The entire world today is an example of the hybrid failing. The US has 20 trillion dollars of public debt.....let me say that again because the number really doesn't sink in 20 trillion 20 000 000 000 000. That doesn't include private debt, including company debt from stock buy backs, mergers, malinvestment in oil, housing, inventory, shipping. It doesn't take into account a big bubbly dollar either, because, should that crash then the world is in serious do dah. A quick visit to Japan with its NIRP, a collapsing Europe, exploding China, crashing Canada. That's what a socialised welfare system, backed by cronyism has achieved.

 

Greece should be a warning as to why it can't work. They burned a touch brighter on the socialist front and collapsed more quickly.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Karl

[Owledge]

@thelerner

You, like many indoctrinated, don't understand communism in the context of theory vs. praxis. Communism is good when it works, and it is practiced in all societies to some degree, while when used as a stated form of government probably intends to be fully implemented without compromise.

 

@Karl

Oh wow, the inane "you're just jealous of our wealth" argument. That's as silly as "they hate us for our freedom" from war propaganda.

How is Stalin killing millions saying anything about socialism? I don't see you say democracy is evil because the "Democratic People's Republic of North Korea" is so troubled. All this fake labeling is so easily swallowed by the people. And Chavez is not Stalin, for god's sake!

You have a huge amount of learning to do if you still don't understand that the USA have their wealth because they steal it from others, in good old imperial conquest style. Hell, it is difficult NOT to realize this from all the reports about what a wonderful example (sarcasm) the USA are. They're already Orwell-level, but for anyone but the intelligence it's difficult to see what's going on in the own country, and just as easy to criticize others to make it easier to ignore that.

This, too, is psychology extended to a group. The USA are basically, in its behavior in world context, a spoiled, pampered, convenient chauvinistic brat in deep denial that breeds fanaticism, lying and stealing, slandering, murdering (own people as easily as others), and surprise! - Poverty is a problem in the USA. The wealth is there, but not distributed properly. Why would thieves want to share?

And then you have in various countries the denial of personal responsibility, which is a trademark of a fearful (immature) psyche, by treating things like illegal immigrants or refugees like an insult and not accepting how they create these problems themselves; they are their nemesis.

 

It is grotesque how people can still talk about "failed socialism" and not see the huge time-proven failure that is capitalism.

 

Some more moderate might claim that capitalism works as long as corruption doesn't set in. But capitalism is geared towards that.

And raising productivity through personal incentive? Yeah, if you got existential fears to exploit. And motivating an economy based on personal benefit only creates what it practices, as any system does. Egotism. I have made many very insightful experiences with just how widespread egotism is, covered in a layer of bullshit so that people can stay in denial about what they deep down know they are trying to suppress.

 

The problem here is what the USA's problem is, and general the world's problem that creates suffering: mental convenience. I didn't allow myself that, but kept my eyes open for many years, always examining that was going on and why and connecting the dots. But it's so much easier to choose an enemy, call them evil and feel better about oneself.

Then again... this is common knowledge, too, that the devil is a deceiver and tempter.

Many people serve him by free choice. And I don't respect those people unless they stop the bullshit and start facing where we are so that we can go to where we want to be.

Reality is the ultimate judge. Either truth is the highest authority or people will suffer.

 

 

ADDENDUM:

Wow, so you say a mix of problem and solution doesn't work (kinda right) and then you suggest pure problem.

If the whole world was totally capitalist ... it wouldn't be, because it's unsustainable. Someone always has to suffer so that others can profit from it.

"The crony capitalists that make it all work get too greedy" - yeah, that's what started in the USA a long time ago and now it has become a feature. Greed is good and doublespeak is all around.

Projection is the psychological term for what the USA are a champion of. They project things outside that are inside.

 

If the USA were a person, they'd make a used car salesman look like Jesus.

Oh a propos person, you can actually examine the USA's actions like you would psychoanalyze a person. It has been done and the diagnosis is highly psychotic/psychopathic on all points of the textbook diagnosis.

Naturally. Fear creates a sick, immature mind. Love creates a healthy, mature mind. But love takes courage.

 

As I said, this is a spiritual forum, so I expect people to have an interest in working on their own betterment. The imbalance between my own efforts and what I experienced from the common rabble gradually pissed me off. It is time others made an effort, too. I have already made my life way too difficult by caring about those who don't deserve it.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Owledge

[Owledge]

Figuratively speaking...

 

"How to Start a Socialist Revolution"

"Follow the 10 easy steps in this e-book"

"30-day money-back guarantee"

^

This is what people fall for and then curse socialism for not working. Like it's some damn fashion trend.

They have been living capitalism all along, by choice. They just wanted to build a good excuse.

 

https://twitter.com/Dowlphin/status/639576899002499072

 

Lived socialism is something deeply serious. It is practiced empathy. Every true socialist is a little hero.

It doesn't work with 90% cowards.

Guess why Edward Snowden chose to make his own life so difficult. Because his own happiness depends on something deep, meaningful, spiritual, not something shallow and material.

 

Oh by the way, if you want no mix, but even any element of socialism gone, then say goodbye to the idea of families. Because families operate on love. They're quite socialist. Those who aren't breed corporate CEOs and others in a high-risk group for sociopathy. And those are using their fear-fueled ambitions to gain power and use that power to create and expand their comfort zone of denial. Like harmful bacteria turn your body acidic because that's what comforts them.

But the body's immune system carries profound life wisdom. It doesn't practice compassion for those bacteria. It wouldn't work. They operate on basic instincts. Like many people do.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Owledge

[Karl]

@thelerner

You, like many indoctrinated, don't understand communism in the context of theory vs. praxis. Communism is good when it works, and it is practiced in all societies to some degree, while when used as a stated form of government probably intends to be fully implemented without compromise.

 

@Karl

Oh wow, the inane "you're just jealous of our wealth" argument. That's as silly as "they hate us for our freedom" from war propaganda.

How is Stalin killing millions saying anything about socialism? I don't see you say democracy is evil because the "Democratic People's Republic of North Korea" is so troubled. All this fake labeling is so easily swallowed by the people. And Chavez is not Stalin, for god's sake!

You have a huge amount of learning to do if you still don't understand that the USA have their wealth because they steal it from others, in good old imperial conquest style. Hell, it is difficult NOT to realize this from all the reports about what a wonderful example (sarcasm) the USA are. They're already Orwell-level, but for anyone but the intelligence it's difficult to see what's going on in the own country, and just as easy to criticize others to make it easier to ignore that.

This, too, is psychology extended to a group. The USA are basically, in its behavior in world context, a spoiled, pampered, convenient chauvinistic brat in deep denial that breeds fanaticism, lying and stealing, slandering, murdering (own people as easily as others), and surprise! - Poverty is a problem in the USA. The wealth is there, but not distributed properly. Why would thieves want to share?

And then you have in various countries the denial of personal responsibility, which is a trademark of a fearful (immature) psyche, by treating things like illegal immigrants or refugees like an insult and not accepting how they create these problems themselves; they are their nemesis.

 

It is grotesque how people can still talk about "failed socialism" and not see the huge time-proven failure that is capitalism.

 

Some more moderate might claim that capitalism works as long as corruption doesn't set in. But capitalism is geared towards that.

And raising productivity through personal incentive? Yeah, if you got existential fears to exploit. And motivating an economy based on personal benefit only creates what it practices, as any system does. Egotism. I have made many very insightful experiences with just how widespread egotism is, covered in a layer of bullshit so that people can stay in denial about what they deep down know they are trying to suppress.

 

The problem here is what the USA's problem is, and general the world's problem that creates suffering: mental convenience. I didn't allow myself that, but kept my eyes open for many years, always examining that was going on and why and connecting the dots. But it's so much easier to choose an enemy, call them evil and feel better about oneself.

Then again... this is common knowledge, too, that the devil is a deceiver and tempter.

Many people serve him by free choice. And I don't respect those people unless they stop the bullshit and start facing where we are so that we can go to where we want to be.

Reality is the ultimate judge. Either truth is the highest authority or people will suffer.

 

 

ADDENDUM:

Wow, so you say a mix of problem and solution doesn't work (kinda right) and then you suggest pure problem.

If the whole world was totally capitalist ... it wouldn't be, because it's unsustainable. Someone always has to suffer so that others can profit from it.

"The crony capitalists that make it all work get too greedy" - yeah, that's what started in the USA a long time ago and now it has become a feature. Greed is good and doublespeak is all around.

Projection is the psychological term for what the USA are a champion of. They project things outside that are inside.

 

If the USA were a person, they'd make a used car salesman look like Jesus.

Oh a propos person, you can actually examine the USA's actions like you would psychoanalyze a person. It has been done and the diagnosis is highly psychotic/psychopathic on all points of the textbook diagnosis.

Naturally. Fear creates a sick, immature mind. Love creates a healthy, mature mind. But love takes courage.

 

As I said, this is a spiritual forum, so I expect people to have an interest in working on their own betterment. The imbalance between my own efforts and what I experienced from the common rabble gradually pissed me off. It is time others made an effort, too. I have already made my life way too difficult by caring about those who don't deserve it.

 

That's not an argument I make. I don't think socialists are 'jealous' of anything. Socialists hate themselves first and last. Socialism is an externalised manifestation of ones own self hatred and loathing. That's why I said "They hate the good for being the good". Socialists want to suffer and, by all means they should go ahead, but don't drag anyone else into your self destructive, self sacrificial ideology. Don't cover it with pretty flowers, hippy culture and love in order to make a slow, torturous death more appealing to those who have not yet the critical faculties to reject it.

 

The USA is losing its wealth, it is in debt because it failed to adhere to laissez faire capitalism and a Government that should only protect the freedom of the people in the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness. Instead, they began to reinstall a more despotic version of the English class system and began eroding the core principles that had made their country so wealthy. They did not achieve their rapid expansion prior to the First World War by any kind of imperialism-that came from the era of Woodrow Wilson. Once the USA began empire building its debts began to grow and its production declined. Like most of the West it has a mixed economy which is shorthand for a self destructive, centralised fascist/socialist ideology.

 

How to maintain true laissez faire capitalism and limited Government-well that's another question. That is works and works well is beyond historical doubt.

 

 

 

 

[Owledge]

Ha-ha, too much centralized control? You don't think things through in your self-validating convenience. Laisset faire works so well that business rules the government now. The imperialist drive is not spreading glory or ideals, that's just for the fools. The drive is money, power. It is economic.

While I respect Ron Paul, his formula of small government taken as that is just a system, an approach, and doesn't contain any strategy for dealing with corruption. Because corruption will enter any system run by people where egotism takes over. Working with the people is crucial, and that's where socialism looks at, while capitalism only wants to shape them into easy, shallow, controllable consumers.

You pervert what you claim is your own way. Hard work is a virtue and effort gets stuff done, but you don't acknowledge that socialists make an extra effort to shoulder the burden that egotists don't want to, because someone needs to start working on a better world or the sickness will grow further.

Wherever socialism works (and I mentioned examples that you need to find for yourself - they're obvious enough for anybody but those in denial) it brings health in all facets.

 

If you continue to follow your praise of convenient egotism, you might need to experience the results of your choices from the receiving end. And I am no longer one of those who obsess over helping everybody. My resources are too valuable to waste on those who have already made their choice. I will be a devil to devils and a saint to saints.

 

And that's all I will say here. I will give you a tiny taste of your ways by thinking of only my own interests here now and thus not give a damn about what might become of you. Whether you live or die... that is a socialist concern.

[Karl]

If you won't listen to me. I suggest you listen to someone who escaped North Korea.

 

There is a famous essay by an ex socialist academic ( can't lay my hands on it), but it was aimed at western intellectuals who praised the USSR. It was called 'what did you know and when did you know it'. It's explicit in showing the intellectual blind eye turning to the horrors of socialism. It asks the guilty by one who feels terrible remorse for his own support of evil.

[Karl]

Interesting article about the black economy in North Korea-exactly the same phenomenon kept the USSR going well beyond its collapse point. Of course maybe you say this US propaganda, so you should cross correlate with as many sources as possible.

 

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/BUSINESS/07/14/north.korea.capitalism/index.html?eref=edition

 

 

 

[idquest]

Socialism/communism generally awards a mediocre and lazy part of population; and it punishes entrepreneurs spirit and innovation.

 

Capitalist model as represented by USA and to large extent by Western Europe, encourages entrepreneurship and innovation and doesn't care too much about mediocre and lazy. Generally, of course.

 

Everything is going to change with coming robots overtaking the economy. The estimates are that up to 50% of office workers will be replaced by robots in coming 10 years (I am witnessing this in my workplace myself). With this, the majority of western population will be reduced to minimum wage bracket. This will change the economic and social reality dramatically.

[Nungali]

Quote,Nungali.

 

"They should cut out the middle man,and let you print your own."

 

 

In this case, I will retract that ... especially when it costs more to photocopy a note than the note is worth. 

 

I dont know how one gets out of that situation.    

 

I guess, even when printing your own money is useless, the only thing left to do is grow your own food ....   if you can. 

[Nungali]

Seems the printing of Venezuelan currency has become a new global industry. Wonder what the government is using to pay the print shops. (I doubt it is in Bolivars...)

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/venezuela-orders-bank-notes-by-the-planeload/ar-BBp6pM9

 

 

Not only has Australia got a finger in that pie    ( apparently we have great polymer note printing tech )   , there have been a few 'icky' things involved with it .... mostly bribes ... and  pointing the finger at "a certain SE Asian "  countries head   ( sorry, cant name him, they made a law here against naming him, apparently, if I name him, that would threaten or national security and I could be charged with threatening our 'security' .....   ( read ;  threatening their  'web of lies' )

 

 

" The Australian Federal Police  is probing Securency's payment of multimillion-dollar commissions to shady foreign middlemen who helped win currency printing deals in Africa, Asia and Latin America.  ...   A spokesman for the Government leader in the Senate, Chris Evans, defended the Government's refusal to answer questions.

 

http://www.smh.com.au/national/investigations/heads-roll-at-rba-company-20090914-fnva.html

 

" ... biggest corporate bribery scandal in Australian history. "  

 

 http://www.smh.com.au/business/who-knew-what-when-in-bank-bribe-scandal-20110810-1imtu.html

 

 

Australian court's gagging order condemned as 'abuse of legal process'

Lawyers and media condemn ban on reporting in full on bribery investigation involving banknote company Securency 

 

A sweeping gagging order issued by an Australian court to block reporting of bribery allegations involving several international political leaders has been attacked by journalists and lawyers as "unacceptable" and "an abuse of legal process".

The extraordinary prohibition emerged from a criminal case in the Australian courts and relates to part of an ongoing investigation by prosecutors across three continents into allegations of multimillion-pound bribes paid in the banknote-printing industry.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/30/australian-court-gagging-order-abuse-legal-process

 

A secret memo sent to the "Deputy Governor RBA" in 2007 detailing bribery and corruption within a Reserve Bank subsidiary was withheld from the police, Federal Parliament and the government. The revelation of the five-page "private and confidential" memo ties RBA governor Glenn Stevens and his recently retired deputy, Ric Battellino, to one of the worst corporate corruption cover-ups in Australian history. The 2007 memo shows that almost two years before a bribery exposed by The Age forced the RBA to call in police, Battellino was given a detailed and explosive memo cataloging bribery and corruption inside Note Printing Australia, a wholly owned and supervised subsidiary of the bank.^[4]

 

NPA was mentioned in a leaked suppression order of the Victorian Supreme Count in Melbourne. The order, which forbids publication of corruption allegations against named government officials of Malaysia, Indonesia and Vietnam, includes a specific exemption allowing the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions to pass banned information on to NPA.^[5]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Note_Printing_Australia