Working with higher level subtle beings and spirits

[dawei]

In terms of the map I most work with there are higher dimensions above and around our human realm, so there are 7th 8th 9th etc dimensions, full of different orders of subtle beings, but the thing is that just because something is in a subtle higher realm and has wisdom and power it doesn't necessarily mean they are free of ego. A higher level being isn't the same thing as a divine being or a being in complete altruistic service, you could easily confuse them up, they may try to give that impression that is what they are but they aren't necessarily the same thing. 

 

Hi Jetsun,

 

I wanted to thank you for starting such a thread.  Other threads have seen mocking and mis-information from folks who don't even know what they are talking about.  I'm glad to see this one.

 

I sense one main point of your topic is, how to know if your not being deceived in your merge or connection.   I've not considered this but I think it is reasonable to discuss.   I see some discussion on Yidam but I'm not seeing the relevance so I won't comment on that.

 

What you mention as higher dimensions and subtle beings and spirits is still below the deity level you mention, if I understand your several posts.   This I completely agree with and is why I use the division of: Light Being (ie: deities) vs non-light being.

 

I only connect and/or merge with Light Beings which are synonymous with your mention of deities.   I have explored other lower beings and lower dimensions (forgive my saying  'lower' as I start from above and you start from man and so say higher). 

 

So you seem to ask whether the lower beings/spirits can infiltrate a deity and then deceive one merging with a deity?  

 

I tend to make a divide of Light Beings vs non-light beings... but it can be Deities vs non-Deities.

 

If you have visited the dimensions of Deities, the power is presence.  And I will say there is often a return party to 'check you out'....   well, that is my experience. 

[seekingbuddha]

Something that came to my mind,  when i read ......"So you seem to ask whether the lower beings/spirits can infiltrate a deity and then deceive one merging with a deity?"....... 

 

When there is clarity / concentration / wisdom  of mind that springs from a wholesome foundation, there is no deception possible.  Everything & every being is seen / known, for what it really is.

[Spotless]

In this whole topic of merging with beings and the joys and attainments possible as well as the idealistic ideas of what clarity one can have seemingly somewhat miraculously - I would like to put out three points.

 

Doing this is easy. Incredibly easy and it is a favorite for those inclined to the ways of the rabbit and monkey.

 

Everyone is easily persuaded that they are able to decifer the differences between beings and choose wisely in their merging and mingling.

 

There is no other more effective means for going crazy and completely loosing it than dabbling in these things.

 

I was once very involved in such endeavors and would certainly be considered an adept in these matters - I approached it from the get go with high caution and watched many of my friends get laid to waste in the processes they went through. I began this stuff many years into my practice and while it is nice that I can talk with experience, depth and ownership of these things - it was a phase of interest and of no interest at this point nor for many decades now.

 

I did not gain any great leaps of insight into Awakening from it and it was certainly part of "my story" that was colorful and that I identified with. It was a can of worms that I tread and made it through - possibly the most perilous little expidition I ever made.

 

Much of what is written here is non-sense taken in a "serious" air of "real work". For 999% of those who peruse this it is an odd concoction of opening their already open houses (energy bodies) to all sorts of things they have no clue about and hoping for the best - generally with the notion that "pure intention" is enough to keep things on track. This is simply not the case.

 

Of some 15-20 friends that I knew well that became involved heavily in these things - one of the most gifted individual was completely taken over by the "divine" being and it changed his name and is the resident there now. Fully half of the others went off into dodo land in one form or another and most of those remaining in the final analysis of it recoiled at some point from wanting to be actively involved any further.

 

Mediumship and merging is very different than befriending and meeting. All beings are beings of light and all things have consciousness - all is conscious. What seem to be the faster pathways and more profound practices - those of rabbit and monkey pale by comparison to the speed and accomplishment of the turtles way.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Spotless

[wilfred]

turtle style, i like it

[dawei]

 All beings are beings of light 

 

I usually agree with most everything you say but not this.  And if one doesn't know the difference between light and non-light beings then they would not know how to avoid some of the issues you have mentioned.   Our use of "Light" may be different but for me it is a level which can mostly be equated with deities.

[Brian]

I agree with spotless here -- we are all vibrant beings of Light but very few of us realize it, especially beyond an intellectual level. The transition is not one of fundamental transformation but of awakening.

 

 

 

EDIT: Changed "light" to "Light" for exactness (of not clarity...)

Edited February 11, 2016 by Brian

[Jetsun]

I usually agree with most everything you say but not this.  And if one doesn't know the difference between light and non-light beings then they would not know how to avoid some of the issues you have mentioned.   Our use of "Light" may be different but for me it is a level which can mostly be equated with deities.

 

What is the difference?

 

In Buddhism some deities can be considered harmful, such as Shugden. In Christianity Lucifer is considered an angel along side all the other light angelic beings, so is Satan not a light being too? 

 

In terms of us to even say that we are light beings I think is to say too much, we are light and beyond light. 

[Brian]

BTW, I typically use "light" to reference electromagnetic radiation and "Light" when attempting to speak about that which is fundamental and more sublime, but I am sometimes lazy and forget to capitalize.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Brian

[thelerner]

 

Mediumship and merging is very different than befriending and meeting. All beings are beings of light and all things have consciousness - all is conscious. What seem to be the faster pathways and more profound practices - those of rabbit and monkey pale by comparison to the speed and accomplishment of the turtles way.

Its not really a path I'd take, but can you talk more about Mediumship and merging vs. befriending and meeting.  How do you define the difference and keep one from leaking into the other? 

 

Befriending and meeting sounds cool, but even that seems to have its dangers.  At my low level the biggest danger, I assume, is me fooling myself.  At higher level its the Other fooling Me. 

[Apech]

What is the difference?

 

In Buddhism some deities can be considered harmful, such as Shugden. In Christianity Lucifer is considered an angel along side all the other light angelic beings, so is Satan not a light being too? 

 

In terms of us to even say that we are light beings I think is to say too much, we are light and beyond light. 

 

 

'Lucifer ' means light

 

 

Old English, from Latin, ‘light-bringing, morning star’, from lux, luc- ‘light’ + -fer ‘bearing’.Sense 1 is by association with the ‘son of the morning’ (Isa. 14:12), believed by Christian interpreters to be a reference to Satan.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

I could say a lot about all of this from both Western and Chinese magic, but I don't have time right now.  There have been many interesting observations here, but the business about light is important:
 

 

. . . one of my favorite quotes from Volume One of Agrippa's Three Books of Occult Philosophy:
 

Light also is a quality that partakes much of form, and is a simple act, and a representation of the understanding: it is first diffused from the Mind of God into all things, but in God the Father, the Father of Light, it is the first true light; then in the Son a beautifull overflowing brightness, and in the Holy Ghost a burning brightness, exceeding all Intelligencies; yea, as Dyonisius saith, of Seraphins, In Angels therefore it is a shining intelligence diffused, an abundant joy beyond all bounds of reason yet received in divers degrees, according to the Nature of the intelligence that receives it; Then it descends into the Celestiall bodies, where it becomes a store of life, and an effectuall propagation, even a visible splendor. In the fire a certain naturall liveliness infused into it by the heavens. And lastly in men, it is a clear discourse of reason, an knowledge of divine things, and the whole rationall . . . From thence it passeth to the fancy, yet above the sense, but only imaginable, and thence to the sence [senses], but especially to that of the eyes; In them it becomes a visible clearness, and is extended to other perspicuous bodies, in which it becomes a colour, and a shining beauty (Cornelius Agrippa, Three Books of Occult Philosophy, Volume One, Chapter 49 at the Twilight Grotto Esoteric Archives)

 
Right at the beginning is something of great general importance “Light . . . is . . . a representation of the understanding”, thus light is not the understanding itself, but rather it is an image (“imago” in Agrippa's Latin is translated as “representation”) and it is “. . . diffused from the Mind of God into all things . . .”, in other words Light is not the understanding itself, but rather an emanation of that understanding that represents that understanding to imagination and sense.

In other words Light in inner sense is definitely connected with very high entities, but it is an attribute of "representation" of them and is not their essence.  Unfortunately appearing as Light is not limited to them and there are "deceivers" of a certain class who can appear clothed in glory and beaming love.  Differentiating them from real ones is not always easy and as I said recently to a correspondent, "You are not really a real magician until you have vanquished your first Deceiver of Light".

 

In other words, in general I agree with Spotless, and one needs to be very cautious in dealing with these matters.

 

I apologize that this was posted in some haste and if I can I may be able to post more.

[Jonesboy]

If one doesn't know the difference in depth from Shugden and the Goddess Tara you are not doing what we are doing.

 

I am not even sure what people are doing that the are being tricked by some being. Are you off playing in some astral plane talking to beings and then like oh I like you wanna merge with me?

 

That is nowhere close to what we are talking about.

 

Lucifer is the mind there is no such being that I am aware of.

 

It is true that we are all light. Hell, it is true in the ultimate sense that we are all Buddhas. We all know that it is a process of lifetimes of ever increasing depth. Once one is a "light" being that again is just the beginning. There is always more depth.

 

Shugden is a low level being that people can easily preceive. HHDL is right to discourage people from such a low level being. That again shows the importance of a guru.

 

If you are unable to preceive the difference between Shugden and Tara we are not doing the same thing.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Jonesboy

[dawei]

I'll first start by saying that these are great questions and I'm not the one to really answer them... but I'll give some comment.

 

What is the difference?

 

I guess I should try to give some basis for my use of "Light Level".  It is an essence of being, not seeing but can contain the latter and more.  One can be Light but not realized.  One can be Light but not a deity.  Light is to my very limited experience part:  Openness (as a connection), Perception, Awareness, Realization, and Integration... Should I call it O.P.A.R.I. instead of Light?  who knows.

 

I found that once one goes light, there is an internal calibrated sense of Light Level. I found it to basically be 8-25 in human form.  I've tested it almost a hundred times with other light folks and I seem to be calibrated at 99.9% accuracy.   I stumbled on Plato as I got his human and spirit sides as two readings and had to sort it out.

 

I'm not sure I can really spell out the difference but it is similar to that silly saying about pornography: I know it when I see it; when it is in my presence, I can know what is light or not.

 

A little looking online seemed useful and this person uses "Light Language" in a sense I am not saying but it is a catchy phrase, but there are some great words:

 

http://www.weare1inspirit.com/what-is-light-language

 

We are multidimensional beings with many levels/layers of soul awareness; however, the body has been functioning with only a small amount of the soul actually inside of it. The highest aspect of our soul cannot live in the typical human body at our current level of spiritual evolution. The ongoing restoration process of the light-body is essential to the ascension of humanity. This transformation requires a rewiring and reprogramming of the DNA that will result in a molecular reconstruction of the body. Light language is a vibrational tool to help us do this.

 

We have been given light codes that allow us to recognize telepathic exchanges within our group field. A recent upgrade to the human body template has caused many people to become extremely empathic as these codes are “turned on” or activated. Some people are able to sense, and even experience, the thoughts, feelings, and energy of people, animals, plants, and non-bodied beings. 

. . .

The best way to activate your soul’s language is to be around others who are speaking it. When this cosmic energy is moving, all you have to do is allow yourself to be awakened by the loving current of your own divinity.

 

In my Light level, she is 6... but trying to talk about a level she doesn't exist at... so her framework is not what I am talking about.

 

Another:

 

https://judysatori.com/free/connection-to-spirit/part1/

 

You are always connected to Spirit…because you ARE Spirit having a human experience.

There is no difference between you and the beings of light on other dimensions of reality. It’s just that at this time you are existing in a more dense physical body. In this third dimensional reality you have forgotten your innate wisdom. You do not remember who you truly are on a soul level.

. . . 

My guide Orgin told me that love is the highest and finest vibration. When we consciously think thoughts of love we are harmonizing and enhancing our energy fields. Thinking thoughts of love and sending love to others brings health and balance to body, mind and spirit.

 

Same here... A Light Level 6... but trying to describe Light... She is still describing the 3rd dimension human existence with echos about "Love"...

 

If we just contrast the highest levels as primordial or empty...  

 

 

In Buddhism some deities can be considered harmful, such as Shugden.

 

I don't know this one... I will have to visit.

 

In Christianity Lucifer is considered an angel along side all the other light angelic beings, so is Satan not a light being too? 

 

I have definitely heard of this one and will have to visit

 

 

In terms of us to even say that we are light beings I think is to say too much, we are light and beyond light. 

 

I do agree as our original source (or return to source aspect)...   but when we look at the sunlight we see the similar light, color and feel the warmth.  And a rainbow (or prism) reveals a band of colors.

 

We can talk the singular experiences and we can talk the band of levels... but I accept our levels, our experience, our journey and destiny are not the same outcome in any one lifetime.    

 

I am sure I didn't really answer much but I tried to share my thoughts

[dawei]

I agree with spotless here -- we are all vibrant beings of Light but very few of us realize it, especially beyond an intellectual level. The transition is not one of fundamental transformation but of awakening.

 

 

 

EDIT: Changed "light" to "Light" for exactness (of not clarity...)

 

I now see that Brian said it all very succinctly...   Our source is Light... so we are beings of Light...  but varying degrees of O.P.A.R.I.   

 

 

Edit:  Sorry..  Spotless said it first

 

I only mean to say that one's degree among the mix is the "Light Level" I refer to.  That is why I can ascribe someone to Light Level 6... which is technically not Light Level.

[Spotless]

Its not really a path I'd take, but can you talk more about Mediumship and merging vs. befriending and meeting.  How do you define the difference and keep one from leaking into the other? 

 

Befriending and meeting sounds cool, but even that seems to have its dangers.  At my low level the biggest danger, I assume, is me fooling myself.  At higher level its the Other fooling Me. 

 

------

 

Begin this thinking in terms of meeting with a tree or a dog or a gecko - these beings are wonderful, colorful and no different - no better, no higher and no lower than we are - they are that that is what we are. If you have a position to the contrary - consider where it is coming from. These beautiful beings can be befriended and it is a nice thing to meet them and befriend them.

 

Tree's are hardy looming friends, dogs - are simply absurdly fun, gecko's have that great reptilian readiness - and they all have glowing energy centers and all are glorious beings of light.

 

How has your life changed for those of you here who have begun to regularly talk to the trees in your yard or where ever you have come to know them? Those areas are now alive to you - the air in those areas contains more for you - those beings are now speaking to you whether you know it or not - it may be that they speak to you by brightening in your presence - or they may well speak to you in your language. The energy coming through your eyes is a tremendous force to a dog. The gecko is in the land of Giants in your presence - sitting there with a billion years of amazing skin and an awareness in the now that is spectacularly clear.

 

All day you walk around with many beings that are your friends and often several that might be best not so close to you. What do you have to loose in befriending them and meeting with them? They are already part of your play - but like the trees - perhaps it has not dawned on you to say hello.

 

And you can set the ground rules:

 

You own your body - unless of course you have a sort of open door policy - (drug addicts and alcoholics often do - and it is often the reason they cannot quit - the beings like the party and the drugs keep the person out of control).

 

Say hello to your group of guardians - and casually mention to them that you would like to know them better while also explaining that you would like to lay down some new rules. One of those rules is that they do not enter your body/bodies energy fields without your permission. Another one might be that when they are invited into your space they are not allowed to change anything without your specific permission. If one is a healer you may wish to specify that they can only use the hand chakras. All of this is dependent somewhat on what you can see and feel and what level of certainty you have - but they will hear you and they will understand you quite clearly - if you mean what you say. Their access to you is a very big treasure - a far greater treasure to them than they are to you - though they may already have saved your life several times by chirping inside your head in order to help you avoid a fatal car crash by waking you up or deciding to pull off for some food.

 

You world will change as you greet the trees and say high to all you know as spirit - the grass sings and the road murmurs and the buildings all have their stories. Your house is alive - rugs and all. Your body your house is you as much as your spirit - we treat it like a cocktail glass and like to spike it for a quick high but we neglect to befriend it and meet with it and unfold with it.

 

Like a horse that is whipped and ridden hard and put away wet - you will not know its spirit - it will die before ever showing it to you.

But a horse that is befriended and met as an equal - it is beyond words what your body has to offer -'you are the being - merge with your jewel and take great caution in lending it to others. It is made for you to ride and to ride with you.

 

 

 

 

[GRANTGRANT]

 

In this whole topic of merging with beings and the joys and attainments possible as well as the idealistic ideas of what clarity one can have seemingly somewhat miraculously - I would like to put out three points.

 

Doing this is easy. Incredibly easy and it is a favorite for those inclined to the ways of the rabbit and monkey.

 

Everyone is easily persuaded that they are able to decifer the differences between beings and choose wisely in their merging and mingling.

 

There is no other more effective means for going crazy and completely loosing it than dabbling in these things.

 

I was once very involved in such endeavors and would certainly be considered an adept in these matters - I approached it from the get go with high caution and watched many of my friends get laid to waste in the processes they went through. I began this stuff many years into my practice and while it is nice that I can talk with experience, depth and ownership of these things - it was a phase of interest and of no interest at this point nor for many decades now.

 

I did not gain any great leaps of insight into Awakening from it and it was certainly part of "my story" that was colorful and that I identified with. It was a can of worms that I tread and made it through - possibly the most perilous little expidition I ever made.

 

Much of what is written here is non-sense taken in a "serious" air of "real work". For 999% of those who peruse this it is an odd concoction of opening their already open houses (energy bodies) to all sorts of things they have no clue about and hoping for the best - generally with the notion that "pure intention" is enough to keep things on track. This is simply not the case.

 

Of some 15-20 friends that I knew well that became involved heavily in these things - one of the most gifted individual was completely taken over by the "divine" being and it changed his name and is the resident there now. Fully half of the others went off into dodo land in one form or another and most of those remaining in the final analysis of it recoiled at some point from wanting to be actively involved any further.

 

Mediumship and merging is very different than befriending and meeting. All beings are beings of light and all things have consciousness - all is conscious. What seem to be the faster pathways and more profound practices - those of rabbit and monkey pale by comparison to the speed and accomplishment of the turtles way.

 

 

Can you describe what you mean by turtle's way?

[3bob]

I have not been following in this thread, but in response to the op:  a certain amount of dealing with other realms and beings is par for course... one has to pass certain passes and it is the job of beings and or forces that are part and parcel of those aspects to be dealt with,  call them keepers - keepers who are not fooled or by-passed.  Having said that if the need is great enough and pure enough they will know and a soul may pass, otherwise it's a no go.  (which is also like a law of inductive reactance acting as built in protection, thus a near zero ego inductance is a requirement for a go...)

[Spotless]

On 2/12/2016 at 7:27 AM, GRANTGRANT said:

Can you describe what you mean by turtle's way?

It is the general path of "simple" practice. "Basic" practice such as meditation, Learning to control ones energy disruptions / dispersal (anger etc), mindfulness in general. The intense practitioner of these simple basic seemingly mundane practices will transform at a far greater rate than one who is regularly distracted by "expedient means" - ways to "get" quicker results and things that get you to the more "esoteric" stuff.

 

Laying out what specifically is a distraction vs a simple and reasonable exploration is difficult - but it might best be seen in whether that exploration is at the expense of real time in "simple basic practice" or if it is generally a supplemental inquiry.

 

Typically distractions tend to take one from regular practice and often result in all sorts of quick new "certainties".

Distractions can also lead one off on a great detour - and injury but it depends on what one defines as a detour.

 

If you wish to Awaken - and that is your desired path - it is good practice to prepare oneself prior to awakening - but the preparation is not in "doing" and subjugation, it is in transcendence. The Rabbits Way, the Monkey's Way that I refer to is simply a reference to practice done in a jumping around fashion and practice that is attracted mainly to "fast and expedient means".

 

The fashion trends out there often speak way beyond their capacities - and they love labels and "levels" and all sorts of "insider" info.

They often include breathing exercises, mediumship on any number of levels (which include often many trance states of which very few have a clue) and spirit world info with a possible mix of drugs (herbs, roots, fungi). None of these is intrinsically "bad" per se.

 

All the while - the "simple basic" practice of being in the present, eradicating judgement and learning to be - leads to enormous strides - not linear strides - transcendence. One owns what they learn as they learn it again and again as it unfolds and then unfolds beyond itself again. The turtle comes to know that they know nothing - the Rabbits and Monkeys believe they are really getting a handle on it all.

 

At "the finish line" - there are no Rabbits and Monkeys -

Edited July 9, 2018 by Spotless

[rex]

Working with 'higher level beings' doesn't automatically mean that you're going to be merging and mixing personal energy with them, or be 'using' them to take 'undeserved' short cuts to spiritual integration.

 

Arguably the normal spiritual observances and practices of any of the major religions/spiritual disciplines automatically involve higher beings which act as observers, guardians and intercessors between humanity and the divine, reciprocally conveying the fruits of spiritual practice to other orders of life, both seen and unseen. They're nobody's fool and simply won't be used.

 

For many practitioners there may never be any conscious contact with them; their presence, though not consciously recognised, may be felt in the positive atmosphere of the practice.

 

Motivation, integrity and discrimination is key and will affect the likely outcome of any known and unknown associations.

Edited February 12, 2016 by rex

[dawei]

What is the difference?

 

In Buddhism some deities can be considered harmful, such as Shugden. In Christianity Lucifer is considered an angel along side all the other light angelic beings, so is Satan not a light being too? 

 

In terms of us to even say that we are light beings I think is to say too much, we are light and beyond light. 

 

Ok... so I feel that as I posted some comments that I should report back after some further looking.

 

Lucifer first...  my feeling is that angels are playing out a part in the human drama.  I found a very different feeling when considering "Lucifer" and "Satan".  The former but a name; the latter a symbol (maybe fear).   But it seems to play a part in the dualistic framework of our minds.  It is not clear that this is an actual being... which makes me now understand why Tom said that.

 

Shugden: I had no understanding of him and did some research to at least get some background.   But I get a similar feeling. it is playing a part of the mind mapping but not sure it is something beyond that.

 

They may be 'light' under a mental construct of how mankind has elevated their symbolic nature.  But I don't get them as "light beings" they way I would otherwise from a deity.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Shen Ming/Spirits of Light are spoken of in ancient Chinese texts of all pre-Buddhist schools.  They protect and guide those who deserve (merit) their protection and guidance.  Cultivating virtue, both internally and in interactions with the world, acts of charity and kindness, purifying the heart and mind, abandoning desires and the six emotions - these sorts of things will bring aid from the Shen Ming.  It's more of a "don't call us, we'll call you when you're ready" affair, and they won't make their presence known.  They will simply influence you, and things around you, while you find things happened "as a matter of course."

 

One comprehensive source of guidance on this is Heshang Gong's commentary on the Dao De Jing.

[3bob]

those "who merit" it is a major can of subjective worms - obviously.  Thus I'd say its more of a mystery since certain beings can see parts of mystery that are revealed to them which is way beyond a shallow, "don't call us we'll call you scenario" of who has earned what, by the way the enlightened have no personal choice or designs in what they are doing since they are part and parcel to Spirit which decides for an apparent them which it is working through.

Edited February 14, 2016 by 3bob

[allinone]

Some can "ask" you to eat your own flesh. If you are heavily deluded at that moment you can take it as a nice and right thing to do. Thoughts coming in like kill that one or set something into fire or steal are pretty usual visitors.

[Songtsan]

Yes, as above. If spirits are going to do something helpful for you, they will just do it. Words arent necessary. Beware things things that talk to you. It could also be something that says useful sounding things in order to gain trust, and then you get fucked with. There is also no way to identify them, so you could think you are dealing with the same entity, and actually be having numerous visitors. Never trust, and just ignore and do your work.

[seekingbuddha]

OK.  Hundred posts have passed by, and the topic has not yet covered  the a subject  that i was waiting  for.    I have couple of questions, since many have reported  interactions  with  other dimensional beings (higher or lower).   I think  this topic should cover  this part of the discussion as well.

1. Have you had  this interaction when  you are NOT under the influence of substances ?  If so,  how did the other worldly being  present itself ? 
2. What makes  you so sure that it is not a play of the mind ? (hallucination or some such are commonly reported).