Vipassana and unblocking energy channels

[grabmywrist4]

Anyone know of any Vipassana teachers that explain what the method does to the energy in the body? thanks.

[Mandrake]

Anyone know of any Vipassana teachers that explain what the method does to the energy in the body? thanks.

 

There are different forms of Vipassana. Which of them are you enquiring about?

 

 

M

[Junko]

You can watch Vepassana meditation on Youtube.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Vipassana is primarily meant for cultivating insight, paying attention to experiences coming and going to see impermanence, etc. There can be energetic effects, but if this is your main interest IMHO you'd be better off doing something else, like qi gong, which is designed for energy work.

 

Here's a description (from here) of energetic experiences people can have in the fourth stage in the progress of insight:

 

Energetic phenomena

The A&P may, for many, involve energetic phenomena, but how this manifests can vary widely, including but not limited to:

*feelings of vibrations spreading out through one’s body

*feeling of vibrations in the spine or areas associated with “energy channels”

*actually seeing energy or “energy channels”

*the feeling that one can manipulate or control these energetic phenomena

*seeing interference patterns between experiences or what may be perceived as moving moiré patterns of energy and/or experiences in one’s body

*feeling these energies or vibrations change frequency with the phase of the breath, typically getting faster in the middle of the in and out breath and slower at the top and bottom of the breath

*vortexes of energy in one’s body, usually showing up going through one’s spine and/or through one’s ears or head into one’s spine, but can involve all sorts of other vortex-like phenomena. Vortexes are nearly perfectly diagnostic of the A&P.

*sometimes the A&P can involve full on explosions of consciousness and experience, such that the body may feel it has exploded into sparks or fragments or the space the person is occupying itself may seem to have experienced some rapid and violent distortion of its basic structure, which are usually very brief experiences.

[wilfred]

this book may help you out http://www.amazon.co.uk/Flavour-Liberation-Three-Vipassana-Deathless/dp/095689173X

[grabmywrist4]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm looking for a vipassana teacher that explains vipassana in terms of it working with the energies. For example, Shinzen Young mentions in one of his teachings that when you use the technique the energy in the emotion will come unstuck a bit. This makes sense to me. I have the idea that on a deeper level the "watch things" vipassana technique is somehow unblocking the channels. i understand the "orthodox view" of vipassana is that it is just for discovering anicca, dukkha, and anatta. However, in places like thailand, there is for example, Ajahn Lee Dhammadaro, who taught about the breath energy channels, and there is Bhikku Thanissaro who talks about unblocking the energy channels. When I was staying at a monastery I was able to talk to the Abott there about the breath energy and manipulation of energy in the body and he knew what I was talking about. It might surprise some people to know that Theravada Buddhism in places like thailand is extremely diverse, with Theravada Buddhists practicing visualization of certain letters combined with colors moving through the middle channel (Tantric Theravada), or people that believe the middle way is actually the middle channel. I remember a guy I knew who was ordained in Thailand for around 5 years that told me about a practice one of his teachers was having him do that sounded like pushing energy through the channels. I had one Theravada Bhikkhu telling me to intentionally move energy out of my head into my heart. Here is Bhikkhu Thanissaro talking some about the breath energy and channels. And for anyone interested, you can find some stuff from Ajahn Lee Dhammadaro on the internet talking about the different energy centers in the body where certain magical powers manifest, such as the tip of the nose.

 

In Theravada many teachers teach to focus on the tip of the nose. But does anyone actually know why? As Ajahn Lee Dhammadaro says, the tip of the nose is one of the energy centers where magical powers are developed. This is what I consider a "deeper teaching". There is the simple teaching that many people will give, for example put your mind on the tip of the nose just for concentration, or whatever. But then there is the deeper teaching, that there is a special energy center there. What I'm looking for is a teacher that goes deeper into Vipassana and teaches it on a deeper level. And the type of vipassana technique I'm looking for is the "watch things" technique. Everyone from Goenka, to Mahasi Sayadaw, to Thich Nhat Hanh, to sayadaw U pandita, I consider to be teaching a style of this "watch things" technique.

 

Edited February 13, 2016 by grabmywrist4

[Seeker of Wisdom]

To clarify my position - vipassana definitely can and does have energetic benefits. But this isn't the primary thing it's intended for, so you may end up going through the progress of insight whether or not this was your intention.

 

If you only want energetic effects, look elsewhere. If you want energy and insight, vipassana should serve you well.

[Creation]

Thanissaro Bhikkhu aka Ajahn Geoff

 

[edit: didn't see you already knew about him]

Edited February 14, 2016 by Creation

[RigdzinTrinley]

Ya know essentially tantra traveled everywhere because well - its nature

 

But you have specific tantric lineages that focus on these things more

 

But definitely - on a base level I agree with s.o.wisdom: energy and emotions are not the point

 

They are stuck and at one point get unstuck through right view and conduct

 

Its not about energy but the three marks of existence

 

The sooner that is faced, the sooner the energy moves through the emotion moves trough

Gotta face suffering of the whole thing brother bear - don't dabble or worry about energy

Worry about sentient beings suffering through wrong view and conduct and serve those beings without ego.

Sit back and watch your heart slowly untangle.

[allinone]

calm abiding+clear seeing+one activity in one selfless field.

 

All stuff becomes by itself almost. Just sit down, then you start thinking how you should hold your eyes, where to focus them, how you should hold your mind, what you should look for inside the mind, what the concentration means, how long you should hold and on what point exactly. There is magic combination, found by trying out all possible variants.

 

if you just doing noting/watching practice you won't get to central channel. Point is that you are already in central channel, but you never see the end and beginning when the entrance or change happens, you will bounce back before or lose conscious so you also need to cultivate discipline and penance if you fail and one day you can walk straight, the moment you realize how to walk straight you drop but then you saw it with your own eye without losing consciousness or looking somewhere else. So that means one point realized and the meaning of insight.

[grabmywrist4]

Thanissaro Bhikkhu aka Ajahn Geoff

 

[edit: didn't see you already knew about him]

 

Thanks. So we have Thanissaro Bhikku. Anyone else?

[Tibetan_Ice]

How did Ajahn Lee stray so far away from Ajhan Chah's teachings of not manipulating the breath?

How can Thanissaeo Bhikku think that watching the breath is boring, thus having to pursue the manipulation of the breath to make it more entertaining?

 

I think TB misses the point of practicing shamatha until the attainment of the hard jhanas, making the mind supple, pliant and workable. Only then is the mind fit for insight practice.

 

If you don't learn how to train the mind and access super-jhanic concentration, you won't have any super realizations during vipassana.

 

And hanging out siddhis like a dog bone is poor motivation. The fourth material jhana confers siddhis without direct manipulation of chakras.

 

If you want to learn how to manipulate chakras and direct winds, take up tummo or kundalini yoga. If you want to master your mind in the Theravada tradition, stick to classic Theravada.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Tibetan_Ice

[grabmywrist4]

How did Ajahn Lee stray so far away from Ajhan Chah's teachings of not manipulating the breath?

How can Thanissaeo Bhikku think that watching the breath is boring, thus having to pursue the manipulation of the breath to make it more entertaining?

 

I think TB misses the point of practicing shamatha until the attainment of the hard jhanas, making the mind supple, pliant and workable. Only then is the mind fit for insight practice.

 

If you don't learn how to train the mind and access super-jhanic concentration, you won't have any super realizations during vipassana.

 

And hanging out siddhis like a dog bone is poor motivation. The fourth material jhana confers siddhis without direct manipulation of chakras.

 

If you want to learn how to manipulate chakras and direct winds, take up tummo or kundalini yoga. If you want to master your mind in the Theravada tradition, stick to classic Theravada.

 

By "Classic theravada" do you mean reinvented Western Buddhism started by King Mongtuk due to British influence? 

 

https://meaningness.wordpress.com/2011/07/05/the-king-of-siam-invents-western-buddhism/

[grabmywrist4]

Here is Shinzen a Vipassana teacher linking up meditation with Qi energy (and the holy spirit). He explains that insight into the impermanent nature of bodily sensations in Buddhism is actually a different way of describing deqi or "getting qi"

 

"When a body worker massages you, their fingers move through your muscles and transfer energy into them. This works out the kinks and lumps in the substance of the muscles. This is a good analogy for Flow. When you let Flow work on you, the energy in its waves and vibrations breaks up the lumps in the substance of your soul. It works out the kinks in all six of your senses. This is flow as a purifier, something that breaks up blockages, cleans out impurities, refines the ore of your essence. As this is happening, it may seem as though the very substance of consciousness itself is becoming soft and porous. You can actually feel the waves and vibrations of anicca churning up gunk from the depths of your soul. It seems to cull up this inner ooze, break it up, and then excrete it out. You can literally feel the substance of your soul being scoured at a very deep level by the flow of impermanence.

 

This cathartic aspect of impermanence is related to important ideas from other spiritual traditions. The words used in those traditions may not seem to refer to anything like impermanence conceptually. If you just looked at the literal meaning of these words, you would never in your wildest dreams imagine that they had anything to do with what Buddhists call impermanence. Take, for example, what in the Chinese medicine is referred to as qi (ch’i, or ki), which is described a kind of energy that flows through us in certain regular channels. When you receive an acupuncture treatment, and really tune into what is happening with the needles, you will have an experience called deqi,or“getting qi.”You feel expanding,contracting,vibrating waves going out from that needle, doing stuff that seems to be good for your body. You would never think that would be related to the Buddhist notion of Impermanence,but it is.As you’ll remember in Buddhist practice we get insight into impermanence by being very precise and very open to things. When the acupuncturist puts a needle in your skin, it produces a sensation of pain, a pin prick. It is not a big sensation, nothing more than a mosquito bite, so it is fairly easy to be completely open to that sensation, especially if you believe that the needle is going to help you. So when you are needled in acupuncture, it is easy to have equanimity with these little pin pricks. It is also easy to be very precise about them, very mindful about exactly where they are located. We even have a verb, to pinpoint. To pinpoint something means to be precise about it. So receiving acupuncture gives you an automatic experience of precise and equanamous body awareness. Compare this to what we do in mindfulness practice. When we meditate on the body, we attempt to be very precise about the locations of sensations and we try to have equanimity with them, to the best of our ability. In essence what we are doing is taking the ordinary aches and pains we experience while sitting, and converting them into a kind of acupuncture stimulus. Then they start to vibrate and spread in waves through us, and we experience deqi, we get the qi flow, which in Buddhism is described as “Insight into the impermanent nature of body sensations.”

 

Impermanence is also related to what is called the Holy Spirit in the Western tradition. The phrase Holy Spirit may sound sort of mystical-schmystical, maybe even scary and off-putting. But the English words“holy spirit”come from the Latin spiritus sanctus, and the Latin phrase is just a translation of the Greek hagia pneuma, which in turn is a translation of the Hebrew ruach ha-kodesh.In Hebrew ruach means“the wind,”i.e.something that has power,but is insubstantial and constantly moving. The Holy Spirit is a kind of wind that blows through us and comforts us. It is the Paraclete, the comforter, which purifies us, and links us to our Source. It is the vehicle through which God’s grace is directly conveyed to us.So activating impermanence,receiving the Holy Spirit and getting qi, are very different words from very different traditions, but they are not entirely unrelated."

Edited February 14, 2016 by grabmywrist4

[Mandrake]

By "Classic theravada" do you mean reinvented Western Buddhism started by King Mongtuk due to British influence? 

 

https://meaningness.wordpress.com/2011/07/05/the-king-of-siam-invents-western-buddhism/

 

More like Buddhaghosa and Vasubandhu? Just to mention a couple.

 

 

M

[grabmywrist4]

More like Buddhaghosa and Vasubandhu? Just to mention a couple.

 

 

M

 

And which one of the five hundred different interpretations of Buddhaghosa's Visshudmagga is the true and correct "classical Theravada" interpretation. Once we find the true and correct interpretation, then we can start interviewing all the monks that think Buddhaghosas interpretation of the tripitika wasn't even correct, and listen to the one thousand and one different interprations of the pali canon the Buddhaghosa deniers have. The Dhammakaya teaches Nirvana is the true self. Other teachers teach there is no self. Back in the day Thanissaro Bhikku speaks of people that would mention nirvana as an entity to invoke. Some people teach everything is the five aggregates, some say there's an unborn unchanging essence that creates the five aggregates and can exist independently of them. Some say the buddha taught breath meditation only at the nose tip, some people teach it at the stomach. Some say the Buddha is dead and you will never see him again, but some say the Buddha and arahants came to visit Ajahn Mun after his enlightenment. Which one is the true "classical Theravada?"

 

Just look at the way the esoteric Theravada tradition differs in their interpretation of the Canon from the mainstreamers.

 

“In mainstream Theravada the term ‘dhammakaya’ is interpreted in an entirely non metaphysical way. It is the corpus of the Buddha’s teaching contained, preeminently, in the canonical writings of the Tripitaka. For the esoteric tradition, however the concept has a special meaning. It is a transformed human body animated by the dhamma and understood as a series of sacred syllables. This transformed body possesses super mundane qualities, the most important being the thirty-two marks of a great man. To create this special body, the adept must use sound to awaken the crystal globe, or ‘infant in the womb,’ which is visualized in the region of the navel. Breathing exercises are also necessary.”

 

 

Here you can find an article from a Nyingma practioner, David chapman, speaking of how the Buddhism we have today actually started in the 1860s as an anti colonial weapon used to fight back against western military and religion.

 

https://meaningness.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/modern-buddhism-forged-as-anti-colonial-weapon/

 

Here he talks about the reinvention of Vipassana meditation, which prior to the 1800s, appears to have been lost. He mentions Asian Theravadins repeatedly reinvented meditation under the influence of western idea's.

 

https://meaningness.wordpress.com/2011/07/07/theravada-reinvents-meditation/

 

To top it off, he speaks of the influence of protestant christianity on Buddhism as well as scientific skeptical rationalism. So when people speak of "classical Theravada" what they might actually be referring to, unknowingly, is a type of Buddhism created for political reasons, merged with protestant christianity and skeptical rationalism, topped with liberal leftist ethics, and served to the masses.

 

If someone went to Laos or Cambodia they may find an entirely different Theravada than what they think of as classical.

 

Here's a part of a technique in cambodia that you might not find on the front page of google from searching "theravada meditation"

 

Bizot says the purpose of the meditation is to see the Buddha within the body, through tantric visualizations: “Repeating non-stop A RA HAM formula, the Venerable recognizes the purple letter NA at the entrance of his nose. He follows the nostril, goes through a door, takes a ladder down to the epiglottis where he reaches the blue letter MO. Climbing down a few more rungs to the neck, he gets to the yellow letter BU. He ten follows the sign of the red letters DDHA in his sternum. He finally reaches his navel, the seat of the letter YA whose color is that of crystal. He concentrates on his navel for the apparition of the Buddha sitting on the throne of Enlightenment. He inhales air and makes it go up and down from his nose to his navel. This exercise must lead him to distinguish a remote island that must be reached by crossing the ocean.”

Edited February 15, 2016 by grabmywrist4

[allinone]

You can take any technique, method, knowledge: but what is always the same is you there who is using them. If you start noting, watching nature then you skip the fundamental thing: that what you note is subordinate and the noter itself does not change.

 

What is seen changes. So if you start doing concentration practice on object, you already fail.

 

Buddha dharma is defeating wrong thinking by mere words. You do check out your own thinking by contemplating on it and trying to prove it wrong, there moments you think you defeated something then comes someone or something what proves you wrong.

 

edit: thats some lower yana, there comes also dependent origination yana.

Edited February 16, 2016 by allinone

[grabmywrist4]

You can take any technique, method, knowledge: but what is always the same is you there who is using them. If you start noting, watching nature then you skip the fundamental thing: that what you note is subordinate and the noter itself does not change.

 

What is seen changes. So if you start doing concentration practice on object, you already fail.

 

Buddha dharma is defeating wrong thinking by mere words. You do check out your own thinking by contemplating on it and trying to prove it wrong, there moments you think you defeated something then comes someone or something what proves you wrong.

 

edit: thats some lower yana, there comes also dependent origination yana.

 

Hey. In the thai forest tradition "the one who knows" is spoken of. It is the unchanging, indestructible, knower, which creates the five aggregates of body and mind, and returns home after enlightenment.

[allinone]

Who knows where you are. In order to go through skandha there is several things to be done. Locating awareness field by removing the reflector there, it is the size of a needle head or small seed, so you could then enter the field and concentrate on the third eye/forehead to let the spirit water in(what flows down from top of the head), then you can access warm energy(in belly), what can feel embarrassing, there is different methods to awoke these energies, like hugging a person, but not every person do the effect, a person who wants to hug you but you don't really want then you decide to ignore the feelings and let it happen and you need to recognize the energies, technically 2 noble truth fulfilled too.

 

There comes then visions, and you need to do some more things to go through 3rd skandha. But the point is that there is so many things that needs to be done, then learning to listen your own self is a good idea. The self travels in different worlds and it preaches the knowledge there you can learn it to hear it and recognize the knowledge beyond appearances and do the required things to go through different points.

 

First the things happen automatically anyway, its like you can think how birds or animals survive in woods and humans get lost in woods so easy. Same way at first you do things right subconsciously.

Thats why simple things like noting and vipassana works so well but they don't go beyond its limited. The energetical stuff what happens has no meaning there while actually in higher yanas they have.

Edited February 17, 2016 by allinone