karmic gravity

[3bob]

in my experience I'd say karma has mass and inertia...

one thing for sure it makes reaching escape velocity much more difficult.

thus comes the saying, "earthbound souls".

 

Btw, many of those drawings of beings suspended in heavenly states sitting on large beautiful lotus flowers is the real deal, not much karma there.

Edited February 18, 2016 by 3bob

[Karl]

in my experience I'd say karma has mass and inertia...

one thing for sure it makes reaching escape velocity much more difficult.

thus comes the saying, "earthbound souls".

 

Btw, many of those drawings of beings suspended in heavenly states sitting on large beautiful lotus flowers is the real deal, not much karma there.

 

It's not difficult to escape Karma. It's only difficult to know how to escape Karma.

[wilfred]

in my experience I'd say karma has mass and inertia...

one thing for sure it makes reaching escape velocity much more difficult.

thus comes the saying, "earthbound souls".

 

Btw, many of those drawings of beings suspended in heavenly states sitting on large beautiful lotus flowers is the real deal, not much karma there.

 

it takes awareness & equanimity. my perception is that it's all a bunch of (subtle) energy that can be dissolved when one cultivates equanimity to the feelings being generated by this energy. a practice that brings increasing awareness to this energy is the most powerful one and for many people will have enough legs for a lifetime.

 

i would say yes it has mass in the sense it is energy, it holds a charge and can be directly perceived-penetrated by the mind. but clearly not in a scientific sense, it takes a level of awareness that could take years, even decades to cultivate and that's presuming an effective practice to begin with.

[3bob]

...some say we purposely set ourselves up or get entangled in dark karma (in a veiled way that humans don't normally remember) so that we will gain lessons in dealing with it... if that is so maybe we are over-doing our lessons?     (as sprits having a very costly human experience including a gathering of  karmic mass that acts centrifugally to cast us into outer darkess for who knows how long?)

Edited February 18, 2016 by 3bob

[Jeff]

...some say we purposely set ourselves up or get entangled in dark karma (in a veiled way that humans don't normally remember) so that we will gain lessons in dealing with it... if that is so maybe we are over-doing our lessons?     (as sprits having a very costly human experience including a gathering of  karmic mass that acts centrifugally to cast us into outer darkess for who knows how long?)

 

What is dark karma? And if it has such kind of "qualities", it is definitely not your previous "inertia" example...

[3bob]

its aka "bad" karma in the west.  I'm obviously using those physics term lightly although I believe they have some use as analogies.  Btw, the inertia of a mass can be moving in a certain direction, thus not just a relative and unmoving mass.

[Brian]

I'd be more inclined towards the term momentum rather than inertia but that's nit-picking.

[Jeff]

its aka "bad" karma in the west.  I'm obviously using those physics term lightly although I believe they have some use as analogies.  Btw, the inertia of a mass can be moving in a certain direction, thus not just a relative and unmoving mass.

 

Yes, a body in motion tends to stays in motion, that is the issue/problem. But labeling it good or bad, dark or light is still just being caught in the same inertia (or momentum ).

[3bob]

Many spiritual masters don't dilly-dally around with luke warm B.S. about good and evil, heaven or hell, etc.. I to know about some of the flowery neo-whatever ramblings - like how we are already enlightened but just don't know it yet -, hell I can even relate directly to certain sayings along those lines, then again such is empty, meaningless hog wash to those that aren't fortunate to have had such realizations for then the reality is that all beings suffer and for what?

[Jeff]

Many spiritual masters don't dilly-dally around with luke warm B.S. about good and evil, heaven or hell, etc.. I to know about some of the flowery neo-whatever ramblings - like how we are already enlightened but just don't know it yet -, hell I can even relate directly to certain sayings along those lines, then again such is empty, meaningless hog wash to those that aren't fortunate to have had such realizations for then the reality is that all beings suffer and for what?

 

If such is what you believe, then why the original post on karma being like simple inertia? How can one trapped/focused on suffering use such an analogy?

 

To use your analogy.... A mass at rest, stays at rest. A mass in motion stays in motion going the same direction... Unless one applies a new "force" on the mass in motion and hence effects the direction of the mass. Spiritual practices are like such a new force.

 

But, ultimately the key is realizing as you said, the mass is empty. When mass is zero, it doesn't matter how much energy is applied to it, because the result is still zero. And one has full range of freedom (or karma has no effect).

[3bob]

imo "empty" is often a seriously misused & misunderstood word in the context of anything to do with meaningful spirituality. 

 

btw, an easier to handle analogy might be,  'near zero resistance then near infinite amperage flow'.

 

lastly, if one can't be a devils advocate once in awhile then how could one claim to understand both sides?

[Jeff]

imo "empty" is often a seriously misused & misunderstood word in the context of anything to do with meaningful spirituality.

 

btw, an easier to handle analogy might be, 'near zero resistance then near infinite amperage flow'.

 

lastly, if one can't be a devils advocate once in awhile then how could one claim to understand both sides?

Fair enough... Though, I am not so sure on the devil's advocate approach. Edited February 18, 2016 by Jeff

[3bob]

then again if we want to go neo-quasi-transcendent-non-dual then "God" is playing the devils advocate all the time among other things...

[Jeff]

then again if we want to go neo-quasi-transcendent-non-dual then "God" is playing the devils advocate all the time among other things...

 

Your neo-quasi-transcendent-non-dual sounds very complicated... Why not just dive deep into God and "reside"?

[Kar3n]

then again if we want to go neo-quasi-transcendent-non-dual then "God" is playing the devils advocate all the time among other things...

 

If you go that route, there is no "God" or devil.

 

 

Karma is only given gravity by the force with which it is fed.

[3bob]

there is both, transcendent and manifest, and its one heck of a game

[Apech]

If you go that route, there is no "God" or devil.

 

 

Karma is only given gravity by the force with which it is fed.

 

Just to complete the quote:

 

'Karma is only given gravity by the force with which it is fed, Obi-Wan.'

[3bob]

which is why cats and Jedi almost always land on their feet

[Jetsun]

in my experience I'd say karma has mass and inertia...

one thing for sure it makes reaching escape velocity much more difficult.

thus comes the saying, "earthbound souls".

 

Btw, many of those drawings of beings suspended in heavenly states sitting on large beautiful lotus flowers is the real deal, not much karma there.

 

I think karma is always trying to complete itself and release, it is us who prevents it from doing so usually through our resistance to it. So the inertia may be more down to how we react to karma rather than from the karma itself. 

[wilfred]

I think karma is always trying to complete itself and release, it is us who prevents it from doing so usually through our resistance to it. So the inertia may be more down to how we react to karma rather than from the karma itself. 

 

nailed it. we are continuously being perfected, the resistance is an inability/reluctance to get ourselves out of the way. we're lucky to have an existence with such amazing oppurtunity for insight, the potential to allow the process to play itself out to completion.

[3bob]

if we are being continuously perfected then there is no "free will" and without that no joining with perfection is possible.  (per choice)  Besides at the end of the cosmic cycle time is up regardless or not of completion of "process".......

Edited February 20, 2016 by 3bob

[wilfred]

if we are being continuously perfected then there is no "free will" and without that no joining with perfection is possible.  (per choice)  Besides at the end of the cosmic cycle time is up regardless or not of completion of "process".......

 

i think the 'free will' comes in if we let it happen or not, like a computer being defragged but it has to pause every time the user starts up another application (bad analogy i know)

 

maybe if you zoom out far enough it isn't the case, but that's hard and not necessarily useful to comprehend early on. i guess what i am saying is that its hard to have insight into karma so it may be best not to try and 'figure it out'.

[3bob]

yea if we're doing the dharma the karma will take care of it self per same,  but even that is not enough to complete the process as you put it.

[wilfred]

yea if we're doing the dharma the karma will take care of it self per same,  but even that is not enough to complete the process as you put it.

 

i think it is a see for ourselves type of deal, whatever it is

 

insight into karma and & dependant origination is master level stuff, so it might be a while i think it's easy to get a feel that there is an energetic process at work on behalf of this stuff and the stock is something that can be worked through (and all the benefit that brings) until there's far less stuff arising...maybe even none.

 

certainly takes a lot of awareness and none of the delusions that could pop up as we do something that does something, but isn't really clearing the stock to any significant degree. i think this is where the need for a good practice comes in, much more chance we can at least clear something in the daily life. a lot of what's going on in the world is making it increasingly hard, it's a very stimulated, fast-paced society, at least here. it's easy to get caught up in that gravity.

[3bob]

ut-oh, that "dependent origination" stuff,  (I'm sure in the heck not a Buddhist whether I realize it or not)

 

Btw, look at the tremendous harm westernized misapplication of Buddhism has bought about, what in the heck was the historic Buddha insightfully thinking anyway?