Britain and the European Union

[Apech]

I remarked on that possibility previously. "You can check out but you can never leave". No matter how many times you vote against their wishes they will have us continue voting until we come up with the answer they want. I'm still suspicious about Boris and his agenda. He already said he thought a leave vote woukd trigger further negotiations and was swiftly smacked down by Cameron. If you remember the quip about divorces at PMQs ?

 

 

Quite right about Boris.  He's a mole put in the Leave camp to bring us back in at the earliest opportunity.  In fact as you point out to use a leave vote as a further bargaining chip.  This is obvious.

[Chang]

I remarked on that possibility previously. "You can check out but you can never leave". No matter how many times you vote against their wishes they will have us continue voting until we come up with the answer they want. I'm still suspicious about Boris and his agenda. He already said he thought a leave vote woukd trigger further negotiations and was swiftly smacked down by Cameron. If you remember the quip about divorces at PMQs ?

 

 

Quite right about Boris.  He's a mole put in the Leave camp to bring us back in at the earliest opportunity.  In fact as you point out to use a leave vote as a further bargaining chip.  This is obvious.

 

What contempt the powers that be must have for the British people if they believe that they could get away with such trickery. God damn them all!

 

"A nation can survive its fools and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gate is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banners openly against the city. But the traitor moves among those within the gates freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their garments, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation; he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city; he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared.”

~Cicero, 45 BC

Edited April 18, 2016 by Chang

[Karl]

They have been getting away with it for a long time, it's just of late they have become much bolder liars.

They are terrified of us voting to leave because it opens up a giant vat of worms. It strongly suggests we no longer care for the status quo and might well start running with the baton once we have a taste for it.

[Apech]

They have been getting away with it for a long time, it's just of late they have become much bolder liars. They are terrified of us voting to leave because it opens up a giant vat of worms. It strongly suggests we no longer care for the status quo and might well start running with the baton once we have a taste for it.

 

 

Worms? Batons? Enough with the metaphors already.

[Karl]

Worms? Batons? Enough with the metaphors already.

 

Mixing my metaphors again. I do scold myself for that. My wife mixes them in one sentence. The other day she was telling me about a colleague who was going to be in for a nasty surprise, adding "Just wait until the penny dawns on her"

[zerostao]

i learned that the UK has its own bernie and he has views about brexit , the eu, and putin

 

Martin Sorrell: Western Europe, Eastern Europe or both, because you’re a great admirer of Vladimir Putin and what he's done in Russia aren't you?

Bernie Ecclestone: He should be running Europe.

MS: He should be in Brussels running Europe?

BE: No, we should get rid of Brussels and he should just be in charge.

[Chang]

Ecclestone is a nasty little man who doubtless shares the autocratic mindset of Putin.

 

[Karl]

I have some common ground with him then ;-) get rid of Brussels.

 

Mind you the guy speaking to him is Mr Europhile. Martin Sorrell is a euronazi, one of the big wealthy promoters of the EU in order to fill his pockets from all the PR/Marketing/lobbying. His wife runs DAVOS. They are like hubby and wife of the new world order. Big friends with the Mandleson and al, the other cronies.

[Chang]

Sorrell is certainly an internationalist and in his own way probably just as nasty as Ecclestone though more polite whilst in company. another trait in common with Bernie is his liking for women who are inches taller than he is.

 

Not a man I would wish to spend much time with but very much a behind the scenes political mover and shaker.

 

Edited April 19, 2016 by Chang

[Apech]

Kay Burley has been broadcasting from Clacton all afternoon on Sky News - on the basis that this is the most Eurosceptic place in Britain.  Just about sums up the whole tawdry affair as far as I'm concerned.

[Apech]

Sorrell is certainly an internationalist and in his own way probably just as nasty as Ecclestone though more polite whilst in company.

 

Not a man I would wish to spend much time with but very much a behind the scenes political mover and shaker.

 

 

If they're up for grabs I'll take his long term awards.

[Karl]

Kay Burley has been broadcasting from Clacton all afternoon on Sky News - on the basis that this is the most Eurosceptic place in Britain.  Just about sums up the whole tawdry affair as far as I'm concerned.

 

LOL that is of course Douglas Carswells gaff, the only UKIP MP and a passionate, devoted outer. If it hadn't been for Carswell I'm not certain we woukd have had this referendum. They love Carswell in Clacton.

[Apech]

LOL that is of course Douglas Carswells gaff, the only UKIP MP and a passionate, devoted outer. If it hadn't been for Carswell I'm not certain we woukd have had this referendum. They love Carswell in Clacton.

 

 

He's a libertarian - I saw him interviewed on youtube - quite interesting.  Not my cup of tea but a decent fellow I thought.

[Apech]

[Karl]

He's a libertarian - I saw him interviewed on youtube - quite interesting.  Not my cup of tea but a decent fellow I thought.

 

He describes himself as a libertarian. I have remarked once or twice that he isn't quite that-he agrees. Nice guy, seems very honest and has high integrity. I was amazed he decided to up sticks to UKIP.

[Karl]

http://www.cityam.com/239252/eu-referendum-britain-stronger-in-europes-exclusive-and-secretive-city-fundraising-event

 

Oh look Roland Rudd, Martin Sorrells chum and his banker mates are having a fund raising bash to stop the serfs.

 

Goldman will be there of course having already splurged £500K then there's JP Morgan another £250K and now Citi Group-another US grand fraud traditionalist are throwing into the pot. Tables are expected to go for 5 figure sums and invite is purely by invitation so no riff raff or poor.

[Apech]

http://www.cityam.com/239252/eu-referendum-britain-stronger-in-europes-exclusive-and-secretive-city-fundraising-event Oh look Roland Rudd, Martin Sorrells chum and his banker mates are having a fund raising bash to stop the serfs. Goldman will be there of course having already splurged £500K then there's JP Morgan another £250K and now Citi Group-another US grand fraud traditionalist are throwing into the pot. Tables are expected to go for 5 figure sums and invite is purely by invitation so no riff raff or poor.

 

I didn't get an invitation.

[Chang]

It is a sort of bonding event for like minded persons.

 

The world is very much run from such soirees where "off the record" decisions and deals are struck.

[Karl]

It is a sort of bonding event for like minded persons.

 

The world is very much run from such soirees where "off the record" decisions and deals are struck.

 

I find it interesting when these kind of DAVOS things are going on, that people know about NWO and Agenda 21, but don't put the picture together. They figure out its something to do with globalists and one world government, but, because they have always had Government it's hard not to see it as just another, different, possibly worse kind of Government. That's how most EU sceptics view the EU.

 

Very few find it particularly difficult to follow that a lot of the Middle East invasions are somewhat related to oil/gas-because it's a valuable resource, yet few view humans as the most valuable resource on the planet. They don't see that there are elites fighting with other elites to control that highly valuable human resource. If they believe that a pact with another nation will bring them a greater share of that resource then they will work together, but will demand independence if they don't get a better return from the union.

 

Sometimes you get a glimpse of what's going on when very influential, politically/ financially connected people speak. There was an interview a few days ago- can't remember who it was, maybe Mandleson-where the interviewer put it to him that it was the elites that wished to keep us in the EU. The reply was that there are elites wanting to keep us in and other elites wanting to take us out.

 

Nationalistic talk from politicians is very noticeable if you have a keen ear; they will talk about 'our hard working....' 'Building our wealth' 'paying their taxes' 'one nation' etc. It's clear that humans are a resource which is being managed by a relatively small group. In effect it's just modern slavery in which democracy is used as the whip and chains. The vast bulk of mass man acts as a counter weight to the individual.

 

Its obvious what's going on if we regard people as more valuable than land, oil or, Gold. There is a cost of managing the resource and the rest is profit distributed amongst the top rungs who are the multi-billionaires. The financial system is like the old church, the high priests are the central bankers ministering to their flock . Even the bank buildings look like modern cathedrals. To know where power is seated one only needs to look for the tallest, most ornate buildings.

 

I know that when I put my X in the box this summer, that I'm really not voting for independence of the individual, but for one group of elites who want their money back (human resource) because Europe didn't pay out what they had expected, over another group that is doing quite nicely out of the arrangement even as it breaks down.

 

[Karl]

Oh dear, oh dear. Seems like a Brexit might lead to a stampede for the exit for several other countries. Funnily I was watching the PLO ambassador today giving an interview on RT. When he was asked who he thought were the movers and shakers in the Globe it was US, Russia, France and Germany. No mention of Britain on the 'top table' or the EU-specifically France and Germany, so that confirms how effective it has been for projecting British influence around the globe.

 

Read Swedes tell Britain: if you leave the EU, we’ll follow - http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/swedes-tell-britain-if-you-leave-the-eu-well-follow/

Edited April 21, 2016 by Karl

[Chang]

This has been on the cards for some time and should come as a surprise to no one. As always with the European Super State things start slowly and are spoken of as something of benefit to the Union.

 

Such an "Army" or "Defence Force" as it is more likely to be called will by its very nature be a Fred Karno outfit but it will suffice for keeping down those who disagree internally with the wishes and aims of the State.

 

        EU in stealth plan to set up ARMY by merging German and Dutch forces AN EU armed forces is being set up "by stealth" with the merger of the German and Dutch armies and navies, it has emerged. The plan is for the two countries to create a nucleus of an EU armed forces to fulfil the long term goal spelt out by German defence minister last year of having an EU army.

 

Ukip defence spokesman Mike Hookem is to ask the Commission what role it has played in talks to bring the new German/ Dutch force together as a nucleus for an EU military.

 

He pointed out that the developments are part of the centralisation by stealth going on in the EU which Britain will be dragged into if it votes to remain in the EU.

 

He warned that the move is aimed at beginning a merger without going through the council of ministers and other EU bodies and then creating an EU military by stealth by adding other countries.

 

And it has also emerged that the Czech Republic has also started talks to have its army become part of the Germany’s army.

 

Last month the Dutch 43rd Mechanised Brigade came under German command as part of its German 1st Armoured Division.

This followed the Dutch 11th Airmobile Brigade coming under German command in 2015

 

As things stand the Dutch Army has been reduced to its 13th Mechanised Brigade along with special forces, support and headquarters staff but there are plans to merge these with the German Army too.

 

In addition the sea battalion of the German Navy will be gradually into the Royal Dutch Navy by 2018 and the two countries are sharing Holland’s largest ship, the Karel Doorman.

 

The acceleration of the merger of the German and Dutch military follows talks last year when the German Defence Minister Ursula von der Leye declared that the long term aim is to create an EU army.

 

She said: “The European Army is our long-term goal, but first we have to strengthen the European Defence Union.’

 

She added: “To achieve this, some nations with concrete military cooperation must come to the fore - and the Germans and the Dutch are doing this.”

 

Mr Hookem MEP said that the the Germans and Dutch are “creating an EU army by stealth”.

 

He went on: "The EU was supposed to be about corralling Germany military dominance in Europe.

 

That aspiration has clearly died and just as Germany now politically dominates the EU, this latest move with the

“Dutch army shows that in time Germany wants to expand and control as much as it can militarily.

 

The EU is moving towards a common defence and foreign policy regime with an EU army as the goal. While Britain remains in the EU, we cannot escape being part of this dangerous setup. "

 

Ukip also noted that the reason to create an EU army “by the backdoor” is because other countries in Europe have opposed the move, most notably Denmark where voters rejected the Maastricht Treaty in the 1990s because of a clause to create an EU Military.

 

However, if an EU armed forces becomes “a fait accompli” it would be difficult for the UK and other countries to resist joining it.

 

 

One wonders at how this will fit with the German reluctance to engage in military operations with which Britain has become involved in recent years. Apparently the German public are now even less keen to become involved in "external" conflicts. I suspect that this reluctance will not deter them from from placing the boot on the neck of reluctant and recalcitrant European Union members should it prove necessary.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Chang

[Chang]

With reference to the above "revelation" one has to wonder why the new German/Dutch outfit has not been deployed in Greece and italy to deal with illegal immigrants aka assylum seekers.

 

Edited April 21, 2016 by Chang

[Apech]

With reference to the above "revelation" one has to wonder why the new German/Dutch outfit has not been deployed in Greece and italy to deal with illegal immigrants aka assylum seekers.

 

Because they have to invade Poland first

[Karl]

They don't want to do anything, it's more of the same idealism that led to the EU in the first place. Like any form of aquisiton or merger, there are certain protocol that must be followed in order to complete it. Like Boris said, unfortunately there is no one actually responsible, because in such a federation there is no interest in taking responsibility. Instead they leave it up to comittees full of fat arsed bureaucrats that haven't done a days work in their lives. A mini cab with a driver speaking pigeon English with a wonky satnav. To be fair to Eurocrats we can't really pretend we are any better.

 

It's why the EU is only of benefit to the US as a potential sop for their foreign policies and as a place to establish a broader corpocracy. If a crisis hits the EU will just fluster and jabber, then hope the US sorts it out for them. It's a corrupt, failing and incompetent. I'm reminded of the pre-war Austrians where it was all about pomp, circumstance and showiness. The EU might well prove to be the very thing it was intended to prevent- especially should Turkey become a member-the catalyst for a Third World War.

[Chang]

Because they have to invade Poland first

 

With such a percentage of Polands population now resident in the Uk that means they may invade us.

 

 

They don't want to do anything, it's more of the same idealism that led to the EU in the first place. Like any form of aquisiton or merger, there are certain protocol that must be followed in order to complete it. Like Boris said, unfortunately there is no one actually responsible, because in such a federation there is no interest in taking responsibility. Instead they leave it up to comittees full of fat arsed bureaucrats that haven't done a days work in their lives. A mini cab with a driver speaking pigeon English with a wonky satnav. To be fair to Eurocrats we can't really pretend we are any better. It's why the EU is only of benefit to the US as a potential sop for their foreign policies and as a place to establish a broader corpocracy. If a crisis hits the EU will just fluster and jabber, then hope the US sorts it out for them. It's a corrupt, failing and incompetent. I'm reminded of the pre-war Austrians where it was all about pomp, circumstance and showiness. The EU might well prove to be the very thing it was intended to prevent- especially should Turkey become a member-the catalyst for a Third World War.

 

Don't you mean when Turkey becomes a member?