Britain and the European Union

[Karl]

Signed the petition. I've wondered about the constitutional legality of the EU treaty for some time in regard to British membership but never heard anyone else suggest it might be an issue.

[Apech]

Why isn't everyone in the Leave campaign signing that petition?  Suspicious I is.

[Karl]

Why isn't everyone in the Leave campaign signing that petition?  Suspicious I is.

 

Maybe they aren't interested in the nuts and bolts when there's a battle to win ?

 

The more I read on this subject, the more it becomes apparent that the entire EU project has always been about an elite who are mulching the rest of us. It's aim is to remove all power from the people, whom they believe have been given far too much influence over the elites intellectualism (left wing) and wealth (right wing). The 'pooling of sovereignty' is the device Monnet planned to strip the people's sovereignty and install an elitist shared sovereignty over the people.

 

I don't think people would grasp the import of that letter and it would have little to no effect on the outcome of the referendum.

 

I'm beginning to grasp just what an amazing opportunity we have been given by this referendum. It isn't really a referendum on EU membership, it's a referendum for the people and their right to constitutional rule. If we give it away now, we have given it away for ever. We will have said 'let the elite rule' and will have effectively legalised it through a vote. Boris Johnson let the cat out of the bag by suggesting we might have two votes, then Cameron closed him down because the possibility of a second vote would nullify the first.

 

This is high stakes poker.

[Apech]

Maybe they aren't interested in the nuts and bolts when there's a battle to win ? The more I read on this subject, the more it becomes apparent that the entire EU project has always been about an elite who are mulching the rest of us. It's aim is to remove all power from the people, whom they believe have been given far too much influence over the elites intellectualism (left wing) and wealth (right wing). The 'pooling of sovereignty' is the device Monnet planned to strip the people's sovereignty and install an elitist shared sovereignty over the people. I don't think people would grasp the import of that letter and it would have little to no effect on the outcome of the referendum. I'm beginning to grasp just what an amazing opportunity we have been given by this referendum. It isn't really a referendum on EU membership, it's a referendum for the people and their right to constitutional rule. If we give it away now, we have given it away for ever. We will have said 'let the elite rule' and will have effectively legalised it through a vote. Boris Johnson let the cat out of the bag by suggesting we might have two votes, then Cameron closed him down because the possibility of a second vote would nullify the first. This is high stakes poker.

 

 

Well yes.  What they are banking on is that even a Leave vote gives them two years to adjust and find a way to keep us in.  That has been obvious from the start.  

[Miffymog]

"The ICM telephone survey revealed a four point Brexit lead. It was released hours after a poll by ORB also showed Vote Leave closing the gap."

 

It's hotting up!

[Karl]

Well yes.  What they are banking on is that even a Leave vote gives them two years to adjust and find a way to keep us in.  That has been obvious from the start.  

 

I think the 'in' is secondary, even a red herring. The point of the exercise is to get us to give up our sovereignty by proxy. That is why left an right are united in voting to remain. They want the argument to move away from a UK wide discussion in order that they move to an international, thence a global arena. We are all just a pain getting in the way of their greater vision. It's only the UK, as I understand it, that has the constitutional clout the break away ? The ramifications are an entire European call to move back towards sovereignty and the elite see their plans shredding.

[Apech]

I think the 'in' is secondary, even a red herring. The point of the exercise is to get us to give up our sovereignty by proxy. That is why left an right are united in voting to remain. They want the argument to move away from a UK wide discussion in order that they move to an international, thence a global arena. We are all just a pain getting in the way of their greater vision. It's only the UK, as I understand it, that has the constitutional clout the break away ? The ramifications are an entire European call to move back towards sovereignty and the elite see their plans shredding.

 

 

Voices in my head (yes I am psychotic) are saying a BFW (Big Fucking War) is coming and they are getting their ducks in a row.

[Karl]

Voices in my head (yes I am psychotic) are saying a BFW (Big Fucking War) is coming and they are getting their ducks in a row.

 

You might be right.

[dust]

I hate poker.

 

Going to watch some TV.

 

Let me know when it's over.

[Chang]

Edited June 2, 2016 by Chang

[Karl]

I'm amazed by the new found positivity of remain - that staying in the EU will lead to more jobs, a better economy, ice cream every day.

 

Yet we are in the EU and Europe has much higher unemployment, a terrible economy we are paying for and the strikes have meant a paucity of ice cream.

 

It's like a car salesman telling a customer not to buy a new car, even though the old car is rusting, unreliable and expensive to run. Apparently the new car isn't worth shelling out for because it's 'a leap into the unknown' and that the cost of buying it might, possibly, but not conclusively be greater than constantly repairing the old car and being consistently late for work.

 

It can't be a case of 'better the old car you know' because at some stage it will come to a complete halt after spending a lot of money trying to keep it running, however, you can't afford to buy that new car anymore as you lost your job as a result of being late too often.

 

That, to me, represents the best analogy for the EU. We accept it will cost us something to leave, but the opportunity cost of not leaving might well cost us everything.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Karl

[Chang]

I cannot say that I have noticed overmuch in the way of positivity within the Europhiles camp. Just the same old tale that poor little Britain should remain huddled beneath the security blanket of the European Superstate. Unfortunately for them that security blanket is looking evermore soiled and threadbare.

 

It is also noteworthy that various European heads of state are making threats regarding how they and the rest of Europe would react should the U.K. leave - Hollands Mark Rutte being the most recent. It is all rather pathetic and predictable.

 

I am surprised that Uberfrau Merkel has not been more vocal.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Chang

[joeblast]

probably because germany would be the first to go after britain and they realize the whole shitshow's gonna crumble once the populace finds out what the stinkin pile really is.

[Karl]

I just watched a report on France's riots over the changes to their workers rights. Apparently, according to a French economist, the reason for the rights being removed is due to an EU ruling trying to free up the labour market. Strange to think the Labour Party is pushing to remain, because the EU has added to workers rights.

 

Then there was another short report on Greece, one of the ministers saying that their Government was naive to believe the Greeks would be heard inside the EU.

 

Why does anyone except DAVOS men and Bildenburgers think its a good idea to remain in this shitty mess. I think if we don't leave, then White, Christian Europe, as we once knew it, will be gone within our lifetimes. I think this was always the plan. Lots of cheap labour and children that don't expect much-just as we exported the dirty work to cheaper Chinese peasant labour, our Governments and the crony capitalists have lost control of the economy and are attempting a version of slavery to keep them in the lifestyle they believe they deserve.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Karl

[Chang]

The recent unrest in France was interesting. I posted a couple of photographs and Apech immediately came back with the comment that such scenes could have been witnessed anywhere. This is not in fact true as there is really no mob like a French mob who have to stop the riot for two and a half hours for lunch.

 

I am not quite so sure as you regarding the real power behind the E.U. but one does wonder what is really afoot within the corridors of power.

 

The average Member of Parliament has no real idea what is going on. Even those higher in the pecking order are woefully ignorant of the machinations within the E.U. Hence the ludicrous antics of Harriet Harman being unable to identify any one of the movers and shakers of the E.U. when shown their photographs. I doubt that Dodgy Dave Cameron would have fared much better.

 

Should Britain leave the E.U. I feel that there would be desperate efforts made by the Super State to punish us so as to make us aware of the error of our ways. France for one would encourage the movement of Muslim migrants across the channel. As to whether other states would also fall away from the Union I have my doubts in the short term, though the rate at which the E.U. falls into chaos will gradually speed up and then we may see some action.

 

In the event of Britain voting to remain within the Union then things will get interesting. A great force has been mobilised with Brexit as it's goal and that force will not simply fade away. Should Britain remain within the E.U. the next general election could be interesting.

[Karl]

We will see the EU undergoing greater destabilisation and economic collapse. Meanwhile the elite will continue to try and accelerate greater uniformity.

 

It's really pretty simple. The world is in a deflationary spiral and most of the corporations are surviving by share buy backs and mergers. Meanwhile the Governments and the people are all in terrible debt. It isn't that different from the collapse of the USSR, but a veneer of free market capitalism has extended the life span. It isn't accidental that the oldest economic power house has cooled quickest and is attempting to drag more and more countries into its orbit. The elite are hanging on by their fingernails and are turning on their people in response to the failure of their planning. These people appear to be psychotic and arrogant; they are convinced they know how to fix things, but the more they fix, the worse it gets and the greater toll they take on their own population. We are all being shuffled towards a cliff edge by fools who can't see that they have lost a game that they could never, ever have won. I suspect the price we will all pay will be extremely high. I think of it like the Battle of Britain-we have little chance of achieving victory, but we have some chance. If we lose, then Europe will lose, then the USA will gradually fall as Britain did.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Karl

[Chang]

Time for Objectivism and rational self interest.

 

I do like the idea of fools pushing us towards a cliff edge. The real tragedy is that they are blissfully unaware that there is even a cliff edge there for us all to fall off.

[Karl]

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-02/another-reason-vote-brexit-uk-taxpayers-biggest-funders-failed-juncker-immigration-p

 

 

we gotta get outa this place, if it's the last thing we ever do...

[Karl]

Time for Objectivism and rational self interest.

 

I do like the idea of fools pushing us towards a cliff edge. The real tragedy is that they are blissfully unaware that there is even a cliff edge there for us all to fall off.

 

Its funny how we talk on this forum about 'humility' yet we are all bowing our heads to the most arrogant group of misguided idiots. Objectivism wouldn't suit the types that believe that it's only a matter of getting people to 'believe' in their debauched pragmatism, in order for it to work. If they just keep telling people it will work, then it will, and it's only the people's lack of belief and constant questioning that is stopping it from being so. It's that old adage 'build it and they will come' from the idiots guide to running a business.

 

Most people are half way between altruist and hedonist which is a million light years from where they should be. They are immoral, unethical and mostly down right bloody evil. The worst are the technocrats running the show who haven't a grain of rationality, never did anything productive and rely of political pull to make their living. They went to the best schools, lived priviliged lives in the shelter of academia or micro political bubbles. They learned Keynesian economics and the Hegelian dialectic, they believe they are omniscient; that they are the only ones who can run the system, that they were born to it and no one else-especially the free market or indibpviduals-can be trusted. They run it like a university, with a vast bureacracy of buildings, paper and people marking out the great dream they believe. The bigger the dream, the bigger the bureacracy and the construction becomes a concrete edifice of the power of their dream and ambition. The humility they require is to see that this vast, sprawling edifice has not been created by their hands, but by the production of the people they are robbing blind in order to build it.

 

"We built a tower of stone, with our flesh and bone, just to see him fly, so many died"

"We watched him fall, now what will we do"

[Apech]

The recent unrest in France was interesting. I posted a couple of photographs and Apech immediately came back with the comment that such scenes could have been witnessed anywhere. This is not in fact true as there is really no mob like a French mob who have to stop the riot for two and a half hours for lunch.

 

...

 

Wot!  are they halving the lunch breaks as well!

[Apech]

...

 

Why does anyone except DAVOS men and Bildenburgers think its a good idea to remain in this shitty mess. I think if we don't leave, then White, Christian Europe, as we once knew it, will be gone within our lifetimes. I think this was always the plan. Lots of cheap labour and children that don't expect much-just as we exported the dirty work to cheaper Chinese peasant labour, our Governments and the crony capitalists have lost control of the economy and are attempting a version of slavery to keep them in the lifestyle they believe they deserve.

 

 

Is this a race issue for you then?

[Karl]

With rates left unchanged - deep in NIRP-land - amid an increasingly fragile banking system (see Italian bank stocks), we expect ECB chief Mario Draghi to reassure an anxious public how well QE is working (despite weak growth and tumbling PMIs), how great negative rates are for stimulating 'something' despite inflation's drift lower, and how his about-to-be-launched corporate bond buying bonanza will really solve the problems of the world (by enabling firms to lever up even more and buyback more stock?).

 

Started Early:

 

DRAGHI SAYS RATES TO STAY LOW WELL BEYOND QE HORIZON

DRAGHI: ASSET BUYS TO RUN TO MARCH 2017 OR BEYOND IF NEEDED

DRAGHI: EXPECT RATES AT CURRENT, LOWER LEVELS FOR EXTENDED PERIOD

DRAGHI: EXPECT RECOVERY TO PROCEED AT MODERATE BUT STEADY PACE

DRAGHI:GROWTH STILL SUPPORTED BY DOMESTIC DEMAND; EXPORTS WEAK

DRAGHI: IF WARRANTED, WILL USE ALL TOOLS AVAILABLE IN MANDATE

DRAGHI: TO CLOSELY MONITOR PRICE STABILITY OUTLOOK

DRAGHI: EXPECT ADDL STIMULUS FROM MEASURES NOT YET IMPLEMENTED

The ECB cuts long-term growth forecasts, while expecting more growth early:

 

DRAGHI SAYS 2Q GROWTH MAY BE SLOWER THAN 1Q

DRAGHI: RISKS TO GROWTH OUTLOOK STILL ON DOWNSIDE

ECB STAFF SEE 2018 EUROZONE GDP AT 1.7% V MAR 1.8%

ECB STAFF SEE 2017 EUROZONE GDP AT 1.7% V MAR 1.7%

ECB STAFF SEE 2016 EUROZONE GDP AT 1.6% V MAR 1.4%

The ECB increases its inflation forecast modestly on the short end:

 

ECB STAFF SEE 2016 EUROZONE HICP AT 0.2% V MAR 0.1%

ECB STAFF SEE 2017 EUROZONE HICP AT 1.3% V MAR 1.3%

ECB STAFF SEE 2018 EUROZONE HICP AT 1.6% V MAR 1.6%

His summary:

 

DRAGHI: CROSS-CHECK CONFIRMS NEED TO PRESERVE ACCOMMODATION

DRAGHI: MONPOL FOCUSED ON MEDIUM-TERM PRICE STABILITY

 

 

 

Just repeat: There is no risk to remaining; there is no risk to remaining;there is no risk to remaining...

Edited June 2, 2016 by Karl

[Karl]

Is this a race issue for you then?

'A race issue' somewhat simplifies it into Government binaries.

 

Its an issue about civilisation, enlightenment, wealth, justice, health and the future.

 

It's simple fact that the West has encouraged multiculturalism and diversity as being good things.

 

Western governments are running public services and tax systems which are really the proxy ownership of private property in the care of a group of politicians that were elected to act as caretakers and servants.

 

The Middle East and Africa are entirely different cultures. Many live in conditions which are barbaric. Even the wealthier countries are autocratic tyrannies run by tin pot dictators and the whole kit and caboodle is dunked in a sour sauce of 4th century religious mysticism. Most of the wealthy have got to where they are by political graft and the rest of the people are largely badly educated and brought up on a diet of harsh religion, poverty, violence and crime.

 

It's fact that the white population is dying out in the West. Our culture is dying because successive Governments have been using regulation, laws, public education, health and welfarism as tools to create an obedient collectivist workforce. This philosophy has back fired and Governments have been burning the fiscal candle at both ends. They have been creating the illusion of wealth, whilst creating more and more debt. So, now they have reached the end of the road and created a legion of white pensioners who have been made dependent on the state and for whom their income must be derived from a dwindling workforce-this being due to policies which have effectively forced women away from family making and into careers causing a fall in birth rates.

 

So, our beloved Lords and masters see the solution as a mix of austerity, subsidies and protectionism for certain industries and a large influx of a migrant workforce-initially through the doors of White Eastern Europe, but now having switched to a culture that is far less easy to accommodate, but who's every whim is pandered to by collectivist populism determined to bring everyone down to the level of homogenous drudgery where aspiration and ambition are crushed flat. These low paid, low skilled workers are looking for the kind of employment that is found in agricultural countries-farming and associated service jobs. In effect it is an invasion which has been propagated by an elite that cares only for its own pockets and lifestyle.

 

The result of high level migration from alien cultures will eventually be the destruction of all that Europe once represented. It will be a collapse towards a low pay, low skill service economy with falling living standards for everyone except for an elite few. We might well end up with sharia law and a version of Islamic Government combined with what we have now. The state has completely abdicated its duties, it has thrown open the doors to anyone who wants to come, it has decided that the private property it held in good faith for the people can be divided like shares of conquest to anyone who asks, it is no longer the servants but the upper class masters and we are the poor serfs who had better get on with it.

 

 

When I visited Egypt a few years ago I asked about some of destruction of the buildings and temples. The guide told me that as the Egyptian civilisation had destroyed itself, the buildings had become home to tribesmen and invaders who had smashed up the icons and built fires inside the buildings. The exterior walls were peppered with holes where people had created shelters for animals. The civilisation had disappeared and only the massive artifacts remained as testimony to a glorious past. Those buildings were now just byes and barns for poor farmers, soldiers and peasants.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Karl

[Chang]

Is this a race issue for you then?

 

Karl has already answered this loaded question very well but it is worthy of note that you should even ask such a thing.

 

Immigration into Europe by massive numbers of Muslims is an issue which must be taken seriously and addressed. The E.U. with Uberfrua Merkal in the vanguard has welcomed the illegal immigration of Muslims with open arms. Unfortunately as members of "Federal Europe" she requires that we all share in this burden.

 

If this matter does not concern you yet it should. If this matter does not concern you yet it will!

[Apech]

Karl has already answered this loaded question very well but it is worthy of note that you should even ask such a thing.

 

Immigration into Europe by massive numbers of Muslims is an issue which must be taken seriously and addressed. The E.U. with Uberfrua Merkal in the vanguard has welcomed the illegal immigration of Muslims with open arms. Unfortunately as members of "Federal Europe" she requires that we all share in this burden.

 

If this matter does not concern you yet it should. If this matter does not concern you yet it will!

 

 

Actually I was just curious given that Karl referred to White Europe.  I notice even the Dalai Lama agrees (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/05/31/the-dalai-lama-says-too-many-refugees-are-going-to-germany/) ... with checks on immigration unlike the Pope who seems to urge for more.

 

But of course wanting or not wanting more Muslims in Europe has nothing to do with race - since Islam is a religion and not a race - nothing to do with white/non-white.

 

I think perhaps what we may see under threat is our culture born of the Enlightenment - of individual freedom and so on - our secular values and not so much our Christian ones - especially as not very long ago the Christian Right was one of the main factions in society which wanted to limit individual freedoms.

 

I think that throwing race into the mix in this debate is probably a bad idea or a wrong turn since there are people from all parts of the globe who value what we value and would seek both to uphold those ideas and occasionally seek shelter from oppression.