Britain and the European Union

[Taoist Texts]

A question: shall this inform the voting given the EU immigration and refugee policies?

 

 

Mateen's father Mir Seddique told NBC News that the sight of two men kissing angered his son.

“We are saying we are apologizing for the whole incident,” the father added. “We weren’t aware of any action he is taking. We are in shock like the whole country.”

The attack, he said, “has nothing to do with religion.” However, Pete Williams of NBC News reported that Mateen called 911 and swore his allegiance to al-Baghdadi of ISIS before the shooting massacre.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/06/12/omar-mateen-id-d-as-orlando-killer.html

[Miffymog]

Karl,

 

You might not need to be too worried about the outcome. When Cameron decided to give Scotland a referendum, although they lost, it completely transformed the political landscape there.

 

By holding it, people overcame their 'referendum anxiety' and it has sown the seed that there will most likely be another one soon (if we don't leave the EU first).

 

Although I don't like him, there is a reasonable chance that Boris will be our prime minister for a term. If so, as long as the drum is still being beaten, he could well call for another.

 

I'm actually not that bothered either way, I just slightly lean towards exit. But if I was, this referendum is just the first stage, the first battle in the war, so to speak.

 

ALSO

 

If we do leave, again no certainties here, but it could easily lead to the people in other more financially stable countries to do the same. Then what would Germany do, holding up the weaker economies?… drop the whole idea.

 

I do believe that the EU was put together with some good intentions as I choose not see all politicians as selfish. But, there are just too many differences between the member states in so many ways. The range of political, geographical, financial and religious ideologies were just too great. 

 

 

EDIT

 

It was interesting what you said about us breaking away from the Roman Catholic Church. I do feel the landscape is so different then that I can't really compare it to Brexit. But, history is definitely a good place to look for answers and I'd never made this comparison before. And it was definitely one of the key events that led to our ascension.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Miffymog

[Apech]

 

Obviously anybody who disagrees with the liberal propaganda must be an ignorant hick to you. But that's ok you are welcome to rationalize.

 

 

however this made me curious...

 

560 pages is short for you?

 

Product Details

• Paperback: 560 pages

 

I didn't call you an ignorant hick.  I just thought that your comment on the Spanish Civil war did not seem to indicate that you had read up on it.  It is enormously complex and people fought on both sides for a variety of reasons.  Rather like the American Civil war to reduce it to a single issue is a mistake.  For one thing the Spanish Republic was democratically elected through the popular vote - while Franco and his associates staged a military coup.  So if Brexit is anything to do with the preservation of democracy over muscle then you seem to be on the wrong side.

 

It is a short book given the subject.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Apech

[Karl]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-12/eu-coming-close-down-your-free-speech

 

 

Frau Merkel and the EU coming to shut down your free speech now.

 

 

We have also learned that documents have been released showing the Turkey is on the cusp of obtaining Visa free travel throughout the EU. It's good to know that Turkey has 4 times the crime rate of the U.K. And that-according to my Turkish neighbour several weeks ago-that it will be the criminals fleeing Turkey that will percolate in Europe first.

 

Come on Apech, this is a busted flush. Get us the hell out of it.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Karl

[Apech]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-12/eu-coming-close-down-your-free-speech

 

 

Frau Merkel and the EU coming to shut down your free speech now.

 

 

We have also learned that documents have been released showing the Turkey is on the cusp of obtaining Visa free travel throughout the EU. It's good to know that Turkey has 4 times the crime rate of the U.K. And that-according to my Turkish neighbour several weeks ago-that it will be the criminals fleeing Turkey that will percolate in Europe first.

 

Come on Apech, this is a busted flush. Get us the hell out of it.

 

 

Me!?  I am above politics.

[Apech]

Looks like you are winning Karl:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/13/eu-referendum-leave-campaign-takes-six-point-lead-in-guardianicm-polls

[Karl]

Looks like you are winning Karl:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/13/eu-referendum-leave-campaign-takes-six-point-lead-in-guardianicm-polls

 

 

Polls-I don't trust them. Got another 500 leaflet drop to do. The problem is that there is usually a last minute curl towards the status quo, but I suspect the revelations surrounding the Turkish visa, plus the horrible massacre in Orlando may well have made people less afraid of speaking out and being called xenophobic. On the doorstep in the North, there are very few remainers. I woukd suspect it will be a landslide for leave in our region, but we aren't often representative. This is a Labour stronghold though, so if Labour voters are swinging to leave as are the vast number of Tory and UKIP, then we might have it in the bag.

 

I've read that some pollsters suggest as high as 92% for leave. Bye bye Cameron and Osborne.

[Apech]

Polls-I don't trust them. Got another 500 leaflet drop to do. The problem is that there is usually a last minute curl towards the status quo, but I suspect the revelations surrounding the Turkish visa, plus the horrible massacre in Orlando may well have made people less afraid of speaking out and being called xenophobic. On the doorstep in the North, there are very few remainers. I woukd suspect it will be a landslide for leave in our region, but we aren't often representative. This is a Labour stronghold though, so if Labour voters are swinging to leave as are the vast number of Tory and UKIP, then we might have it in the bag. I've read that some pollsters suggest as high as 92% for leave. Bye bye Cameron and Osborne.

 

 

No, no, no stay home put your feet up, job well done.

[joeblast]

. I've read that some pollsters suggest as high as 92% for leave. Bye bye Cameron and Osborne.

so you're saying it'll be a close 52-48% vote for remain, once the "votes" are "counted"

[Karl]

so you're saying it'll be a close 52-48% vote for remain, once the "votes" are "counted"

 

Wouldn't put it past them. Looks to me like there are now heavy instances of 'leavers' across the EU now.

[Apech]

[Karl]

The man who blew up our economy after telling us 'no more boom and bust' and who gave away all our gold at a knock down price, then bailed out the bankers. I give him points for not taking us into the Euro. At least at that time he must have realised what a heap of crap it was.

 

That was of course before he found euro religion as an advisor to TWEF known as DAVOS and got himself appointed to PIMCO. Do the masters bidding and riches can be yours.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Karl

[Apech]

The man who blew up our economy after telling us 'no more boom and bust' and who gave away all our gold at a knock down price, then bailed out the bankers. I give him points for not taking us into the Euro. At least at that time he must have realised what a heap of crap it was.

 

 

I thought you'd like it.

[Karl]

I thought you'd like it.

 

I was a Labour voter when he took over. After the mess he left and his obsession with gaining the post of PM I stopped voting completely. I suppose it's fair to say he was the cause of my embarking on a great deal of investigation and learning.

[Apech]

I was a Labour voter when he took over. After the mess he left and his obsession with gaining the post of PM I stopped voting completely. I suppose it's fair to say he was the cause of my embarking on a great deal of investigation and learning.

 

 

So you voted for Tony Blair!  Well.  

[Karl]

So you voted for Tony Blair!  Well.  

 

Twice, then I voted Libdems. It was the 2007 crash that started me thinking. It seemed insane that such a thing could occur and yet nobody 'apparently' had any idea. Then I discovered that there were many, many, less high ranking economists and investors that did know and had forecast it. I discovered that economics was relatively simple with few rules and it was the elite who had deliberately manufactured smoke and mirrors to stop the man in the street figuring out how many ways he was being screwed sideways. It's why they don't teach the philosophical knowledge related to the mathematic or students would de focus and see the big picture.

[Chang]

 

You really are grasping at straws now Apech.

 

However in these more liberal times lunatics and idiots are not barred from voting so even Gordon Brown may sway such ditherers.

 

Thank you for posting this as we see too little of this horrible old socialist nowadays.

[Apech]

You really are grasping at straws now Apech.

 

However in these more liberal times lunatics and idiots are not barred from voting so even Gordon Brown may sway such ditherers.

 

Thank you for posting this as we see too little of this horrible old socialist nowadays.

 

 

Straws?  oh yes ...

 

[Karl]

Straws?  oh yes ...

 

 

Crook.

[Chang]

Too many socialists getting pictured in this thread. Pity we can't dig these two horrible old pro E.U. Tories up and get them involved in the debate. Mac was an even bigger disgrace then Heath, being prone to bursting into tears in front of De Gaulle because he would not let us into the Common Market. On the other hand when Ted Heath was Prime Minister it was a standing joke in Europe that Britain was the only country with two Queens. Even the humourless Germans had a laugh at that one.

 

Edited June 14, 2016 by Chang

[Apech]

You never had it so good.

[joeblast]

  do you like voting alongside jp morgan, goldman sachs, the imf?  those guys all said you need to stay.

[Miffymog]

I prefer to monitor the bookies more than the opinion polls on things like this as they tend to be more accurate.

 

For the last month they've been around these values

Stay    1.3

Leave   3.8

 

But in the last two days they've changed to around

Stay 1.6

Leave 2.4

 

I've been watching them quite closely and this is the first time that there's been a major change - 9 days left.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Miffymog

[Apech]

  do you like voting alongside jp morgan, goldman sachs, the imf?  those guys all said you need to stay.

 

 

More than I like voting alongside Gove, IDS, Boris and Farage.

[Apech]

I prefer to monitor the bookies more than the opinion polls on things like this as they tend to be more accurate.

 

For the last month they've been around these values

Stay    1.3

Leave   3.8

 

But in the last two days they've changed to around

Stay 1.6

Leave 2.4

 

I've been watching them quite closely and this is the first time that there's been a major change - 9 days left.

 

What do these figures mean - I know nothing of gambling.