Britain and the European Union

[joeblast]

More than I like voting alongside Gove, IDS, Boris and Farage.

but they're not the ones stealing from you

 

(whereas the former most assuredly are)

Edited June 14, 2016 by joeblast

[Miffymog]

There's an inverse relationship between the two numbers which makes it slightly more tricky to get an intuitive feel for them. This is especially true of the stay figures as there does not seem to be that much of a difference between them

 

To get a bit more understanding of them, if it's

 

Stay 2.0

Leave 2.0

 

then each outcome is equally likely (the bookies always have to make a profit so you never see this).

 

What's important here is that the leave is getting closer to 2.0 value. Then there's a 50 - 50 chance.

[Karl]

More than I like voting alongside Gove, IDS, Boris and Farage.

Except Farage is a turkey voting for Christmas. He will be out of a very nice little job if he gets his way, same with Dan Hanan and all the other Euro MPs that will have to go job hunting on the 24th if we leave. Having the guts to give up lots of money on a point of principle is either very foolish, to a sign of integrity. I don't see any of the remain camp saying they will do anything like that. You might call them misguided, but I know who people trust and it isn't Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, The IMF, The Government and it is especially not Obama-as Peter Schiff said in a recent podcast 'even if nothing else prompts the UK leave, it should be that Obama is issuing threats for Britain to stay, not because of the threats, but for the fact everything Obama has done has been a disaster'. Never trust a pyromaniac with a box of matches, never trust a liar to tell the truth.

[Karl]

What a day so far:

 

Anyone see the drubbing metered out to the Conservative politicians on daily politics. Brillo was his savage best-I saw his co presenter try and choke back a laugh at just how angry he was.

 

We have Labour in total disarray, it doesn't agree with itself on anything and is now advising voters to ' vote leave to wipe the smile off the faces of dynamic duo'. Are they insane ? How can voting the same way the part time PM and his absentee chancellor are voting cause an upset? They are clearly so arrogant that they think there supporters are idiotic enough to fall for that load of bollox.

 

Then we had captain Bob Geldof-the pirate of everyone's pocket-boating on the Thames to confront a phalanx of small fishing boats who wanted to leave. Sir Bob-the anti establishment establishmentarian-was showing the fishermen two fingers and shouting abuse from his mini Terpitz battle water taxi. It was like an enactment of the small boats heroism in confronting the Nazi threat. There was Geldof, like a latter day Brown Shirt, clearly on the wrong side of the argument for the good of his reputation. Indeed, all he really has, is his chameleon like reputation, a title and a wad of money. You can bet 'give us the money' Bob is looking after his own pocket in some way.

 

Finally we had the PMQs set up of all time. Questions from every politician that is supposed to challenge the Government, doing the exact opposite. Each and every question was a gently thrown ball that allowed Cameron to throw the exact same speech into each and every answer.

 

'Does the PM agree with me that metal polish is very polishy"

"Yes the honourable member had a good point and we must stay in the EU to keep it as polishy as it is, it effects our economy....drone, drone"

 

Only two questions reflected the leave position and Cameron decided not to answer them. Surely Dave has lost the audience. People must have gone Dave deaf by now.

 

But it didn't end there. Osborne came out with an 'emergency budget' which has quickly become to be termed 'the punishment budget'. If we don't vote the way the Government wants we can expect hefty tax rises and savage cuts. This is a Government who has a manifesto offering an EU referendum AND tax cuts, plus ring fencing public services and pensions. Even funnier that 58 of the Tory backbenchers would shoot it down, Corbyn said no way and Osborne most likely won't be around anyway.

 

I like to hear people who tell the truth and the more truth they tell the more confident I can be of their ideas. All that's coming out of the remain camp is lies, threats and spin. What level of desperation is it ? It's the sort that should inform any undecided voter that the remain side don't have an argument for anything positive about the EU. Their rhetoric lines up perfectly with the EU project ideology, that it must be right, because it feels right and that's all you need in today's world. If something feels right then just go ahead and do it and everyone will see how right it was in the end. That's faith, not fact.

 

An addendum to the above: today I receive another leaflet from remain. They seem to have given up on factual argument. Now it's down to personalities. A vote for leave is apparently a vote for public enemy number one to speak on your behalf. The PE1 being that nice Mr Farage that took a very credible second place in lots of Labour constituencies around here. Farage was right about immigration, he predicted the numbers accurately, he told the truth about what the EU was planning and what it meant to the UK. Leave are completely brainless if they think this kind of rank character attacks will sway the population. We Brits favour the underdog and Farage is the underdog. A fat cat, lying, distorting, terrorising establishment giving the undergoing a shoeing is exactly what is required to catapult UKIP to election victory. Are these people so stupid that they can't see what's happening because of a bizzarely need to cling to the establishment line ?

Edited June 15, 2016 by Karl

[Apech]

Except Farage is a turkey voting for Christmas. He will be out of a very nice little job if he gets his way, same with Dan Hanan and all the other Euro MPs that will have to go job hunting on the 24th if we leave. Having the guts to give up lots of money on a point of principle is either very foolish, to a sign of integrity. I don't see any of the remain camp saying they will do anything like that. You might call them misguided, but I know who people trust and it isn't Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, The IMF, The Government and it is especially not Obama-as Peter Schiff said in a recent podcast 'even if nothing else prompts the UK leave, it should be that Obama is issuing threats for Britain to stay, not because of the threats, but for the fact everything Obama has done has been a disaster'. Never trust a pyromaniac with a box of matches, never trust a liar to tell the truth.

 

I don't like or trust any of them on either side.  I particularly don't trust people who offer you jam tomorrow i.e. more spending on NHS if we Brexit - from people who don't even like the the NHS.  I don't trust or like the Remain shower either.  Who could.  The whole thing is a disaster being done for the wrong reasons - and either way we get shafted.  

Edited June 15, 2016 by Apech

[Karl]

I don't like or trust any of them on either side. I particularly don't trust people who offer you jam tomorrow i.e. more spending on NHS if we Brexit - from people who don't even like the the NHS. I don't trust or like the Remain shower either. Who could. The whole thing is a disaster being done for the wrong reasons - and either way we get shafted.

 

They made it clear that they couldn't offer to spend more on the NHS, only that we could should an incumbent Government decide to.

 

You are wrong about 'they don't even like the NHS' . They see it for what it is, an unsustainable monolith which is failing and, according to every 'right thinking' socialist, the only way to save it is to throw more cash at it-cash we haven't got. So, should Labour or another NHS Government offer the extra money in their manifesto pledge, then the electorate can vote for it. Much better I think than the TTIP agreement which will bring the kind of US centric healthcare scam to the UK and there will be no way to stop it, because the EU will have agreed to it and we can't vote them out. That's a real possibility isn't it ? We have our own Government and we can shit kick them out if the people don't like them.

 

Cronyism is Cameron and Osborne. They will have been given their marching orders by Herr Merkel and overlord Obama. If we remain then these two will be richly rewarded and be taken to that 'top table' they like to talk about. It isn't a top table for ordinary folk, it's just for those specially loyal high achievers that get the US policy done.

 

Come on Apech, it must be clear by now. You don't have to trust them, just a bit of research reveals that Cameron has been lying about the aim of the EU, it's moves to have an army and police force, our eventual requirement for Schengen and the Euro and Turkeys supported entry into the EU. It's clear the EU is anti- democratic and even its biggest supporters have made the point it's unfit for purpose and too corrupt.

 

Even if you don't believe the £350 million, the spending on the NHS, or the brave new world of global trade, you cannot overlook something that isn't in the average persons best interests. The EU is a dictatorship for 'getting things done' without public accountability. It is designed to drain countries of sovereignty like a leech-we never signed up for that and despite Camerons promises, that's exactly where we will end up. We need to take back a measure of control, restore what democracy we did have and start making our own laws again. That alone is worth whatever the worry warts woukd have us believe leaving would do.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Karl

[Apech]

You see that's just it - you as much as they want me to believe in a kind of dream - a dream about being richer, a dream about liberty, a dream about this and that.  I don't buy any of it.  I don't believe Cameroon and I don't believe the others.  I want to be left alone with minimum disturbance.  

[joeblast]

then it would naturally make sense to   vote for less authoritarian regulation

 

I'm sure you dont think taxing news links like the EU wants is any better idea than installing excrement meters in people's rears.

[Apech]

then it would naturally make sense to   vote for less authoritarian regulation

 

I'm sure you dont think taxing news links like the EU wants is any better idea than installing excrement meters in people's rears.

 

They've tried but my shit-rate is too high.

[Karl]

You see that's just it - you as much as they want me to believe in a kind of dream - a dream about being richer, a dream about liberty, a dream about this and that. I don't buy any of it. I don't believe Cameroon and I don't believe the others. I want to be left alone with minimum disturbance.

 

You mean maximum freedom to get on with your life peacefully and productively ?

 

Then the decision is simpler. EU is more government and less accountability and sovereignty is less government with far greater accountability (that's the problem right there, they don't want to be accountable, they want to impose any kind of facist, nanny state ideology that they can think up and deny people the right to object).

 

So, out isn't a panacea for greater wealth-and in isn't a panacea for status quo wealth.

 

I think that Cameron is quite right about a a rapid recession if we vote to leave-I think he has been told by the central banks, Merkel and Obama, that if he steps over that line then the central banks will arrange a run on the pound to such an extent that we will be begging to stay. I think Merkel will bite the hand that feeds her and France will reluctantly follow the EU lead. It is planned in. The markets have been warned. It will be short, hard, nasty and Brutish, which, funnily enough was the Battle of Britain.

 

This is the tyrants way and I don't fear tyrants because they are weak. Their actions are always damaging to their own credibility-we see this with Merkel over immigration and Greece. Varafoukas has given us fair warning of what to expect, his belief is that we can change things because we are Britain, but I see no sign this is possible and so, it is my sad duty to inform you, that as of today, we are at war with the EU.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Karl

[Chang]

Cry 'Havoc', and let slip the dogs of war.

 

The "in" camp have really gone to work shooting themselves in the backside - doubtless in an effort to blow their brain out.

 

Geldof ( an irishman with a French wife) has been a great boost to Brexit with his idiotic antics on the Thames. The "In" Brigade really appear to be losing the plot now and their threats are being seen as ridiculous. Lets hope for lots more of the same.

[Karl]

Cry 'Havoc', and let slip the dogs of war.

 

The "in" camp have really gone to work shooting themselves in the backside - doubtless in an effort to blow their brain out.

 

Geldof ( an irishman with a French wife) has been a great boost to Brexit with his idiotic antics on the Thames. The "In" Brigade really appear to be losing the plot now and their threats are being seen as ridiculous. Lets hope for lots more of the same.

The threats to the economy are likely real, but not because of exit, but of what those powerful people behind the scenes want. I most definitely believe they will try and crash the pound. I reckon this is what Osborne is doing as a back up. By showing that he was right about leaving, he can then claim to be the oracle-which he will be in a sense because he knows what these powerful elite want from us and what they will do if they don't get their way.

 

In the event of a Brexit we should be prepared for the attacks. The elite aren't kidding around, they arrange wars and coups, so an all out attack on the pound for a short time wouldn't be difficult. It may shut down our banking system. It's also possible that TBoE could just ramp up the interest rates by selling assets as fast as possible-effectively reducing liquidity to drive interest rates higher and making homeowners and private debtors squeal- this is probably the most logical scenario as in fact, this is the recommended course for Austrian economists anyway, but it will certainly hurt.

 

I think it's time for the politicians in the leave camp to officially kill this one, but, as you know, the Government is always saying that the BoE is 'independent'. When it suits.

[Apech]

What if we replace the referendum with a football competition and whether we stay in or out depends on the progress of Wayne Rooney and co.?   An early Brexit would be a near certainty.

[Karl]

What if we replace the referendum with a football competition and whether we stay in or out depends on the progress of Wayne Rooney and co.?   An early Brexit would be a near certainty.

I would be forced to involve myself in football which, would be against my religion, if I had one.

[Karl]

 

http://ukippolicyforum.com/papers/5/download/The+EU+Rich+List.pdf

 

 

No wonder the EU bureaucrats are fighting so hard. Finding a job in the real world isn't going to be as easy for them.

[Karl]

Last go at Apech ;-)

 

 

This is the left wing, Labour Lexit film.

[joeblast]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-16/british-labor-mp-jo-cox-shot-and-stabbed-assailant-who-allegedly-shouting-britain-fi

[Apech]

Last go at Apech ;-)

 

 

This is the left wing, Labour Lexit film.

 

Yay , I'm converted - I have seen the light. ..... not really.  Save your breath oh Karl.  I'm in Europe and I'm staying.

[Karl]

Yay , I'm converted - I have seen the light. ..... not really.  Save your breath oh Karl.  I'm in Europe and I'm staying.

 

We are all in Europe. That's not the question.

[Karl]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-16/british-labor-mp-jo-cox-shot-and-stabbed-assailant-who-allegedly-shouting-britain-fi

 

The guy wasn't well, he had been receiving therapy. Looks like an unfortunate incident and nothing to do with the referendum beyond it being opportunity.

[joeblast]

I'm gladio it was just same random insane person

[Karl]

I'm gladio it was just same random insane person

A horrible tragedy. My mother ended up in hospital after being knocked flat on her back by a local who was well known for being mentally disturbed, but his behaviour wasn't intentionally violent, he was always panicking and running through crowds. My mum just happened to get in the way of his progress.

[Karl]

Vile use of this tragedy by the remain campaigners to try and make this suit there political narrative. There are really no limits these scumbags of the establishment won't go. I notice that MPs like Angela Eagle who tweeted 'there was a shout of Britain first' have been hurriedly deleted after several eye witnesses said that no words were shouted. Remain are a desperate, depraved, opportunist vampires crying crocodile tears over the tragic death of a young woman.

 

If this is really all remain have, then they are morally and ethically repugnant and so is their cause. From Bob Geldof screaming abuse at working class fishermen, to George Osbornes punishment budget, Obama's threats and now this vicious use of a senseless murder by a mentally unstable, non-political psychotic being dragged around as if it's an attack on democracy.

 

Anyone voting remain must weigh up the evidence of what now appears to be a fascist dictatorship of the worst kind and vote leave immediately.

[Chang]

A dreadful crime has been committed a man is in custody and a Police investigation is under way. Unfortunately the media wish to investigate the matter and broadcast/publish their findings immediately. This is unfortunate so far as our justice system is concerned as the accused stands to be tried and convicted long before he appears in a court of law.

 

I must admit that the media are making great play of the allegation that the attacker shouted "Britain First" during the assault though this allegation appears to come from only one bystander and may or may not be true.

 

The murder will possibly obain a few sympathy votes for the remainiacs but I would hope that they do not attempt to gain political advantage from what is a savage crime. I do however agree with Karl that the Remainiacs campaign is growing ever more hysterical and ludicrous. I had thought that they had reached rock bottom with Eddie Izzard and Bob Geldof and can but hope that they do not prove me wrong.

[joeblast]

that event was freezing Han Solo in carbonite - a test - for implementation here later.