Britain and the European Union

[Apech]

After 4 years of campaigning......thank you Britain.

 

On a personal level congratulations Karl - I know you worked hard for this - I hope, and my fingers are crossed that this works out well.  I don't welcome this decision and don't think a referendum should have happened.  But given that it has happened all my thoughts are for that dream of an independent, democratic and free UK to come to be.

[Apech]

Cameron is announcing to resign by October!!!  This is good news.

[dust]

(gasp) oh no! population decreasing! that would mean more infrastructure, jobs and breathing space for every one! oh the horror! quick, import some unskilled freeloaders!

 

I didn't say population decrease would be bad. I made no judgement either way.

 

 

 

You are attacking a straw man. I never said I was against all immigration or that I solely blame immigration for my problems, but immigration is a factor in increased house prices and is only going to get worse. It has been agreed upon by both sides of the Brexit debate that 240 houses a day need to be built to keep up with current levels of immigration, how is that going to work when your own links say that that figure is impossible to meet?

 

It's like talking to a fucking straw man.

 

I said "stop blaming immigrants for problems that are not their fault", not "you blame immigration for everything"

 

I conceded right away that 240 is the right number, I conceded that immigration is relatively large compared to the past, and I gave reasons why apparent shortages can't be blamed on immigration, why immigration is not the unmanaged mess you claim, why immigration is often necessary, but you have consistently ignored everything that doesn't add up with "IMMIGRANTS BAD". So... I give up.

 

 

Turns out that the majority of people in this country are extreme fuckwits. I give up on the whole goddamn fucking thing.

[Miffymog]

You should always be prepared to try out new things, and I like to believe that the original intentions behind the EU were good. Unfortunately, due to too greater differences between the countries involved, it was not running successfully.

 

We have now stepped back from this, and that is all.

[Jetsun]

I didn't say population decrease would be bad. I made no judgement either way.

 

 

 

 

It's like talking to a fucking straw man.

 

I said "stop blaming immigrants for problems that are not their fault", not "you blame immigration for everything"

 

I conceded right away that 240 is the right number, I conceded that immigration is relatively large compared to the past, and I gave reasons why apparent shortages can't be blamed on immigration, why immigration is not the unmanaged mess you claim, why immigration is often necessary, but you have consistently ignored everything that doesn't add up with "IMMIGRANTS BAD". So... I give up.

 

 

Turns out that the majority of people in this country are extreme fuckwits. I give up on the whole goddamn fucking thing.

Just shows that the people like you and the political elite had their head buried in the sand about this issue I have been talking about

 

And I voted remain and wanted to keep the union but at least I recognised the issue which drove us out

Edited June 24, 2016 by Jetsun

[Karl]

The hard work begins. I have no doubts that we have a long way to go, but we will emerge the better for it.

[Apech]

The hard work begins. I have no doubts that we have a long way to go, but we will emerge the better for it.

 

I'm holding you personally accountable

[Karl]

I'm holding you personally accountable

:-) I welcome it.

[Apech]

Lets do it again ... it's been such fun

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

[Marblehead]

Hehehe.  No, just because you lost don't mean that you get to do it all over again.

[Apech]

Hehehe.  No, just because you lost don't mean that you get to do it all over again.

 

 

That's what you think ... in Europe it's a distinct possibility.

[Apech]

Here's what the Scottish leader has to say :

 

 

I have made it clear to the prime minister this morning that the Scottish government must be fully and directly involved in any and all decisions about the next steps that the UK government intends to take.

We will also be seeking direct discussions with the EU institutions and its member states including the earliest possible meeting with the President of the European Commission.

I also be communicated over the weekend with each EU member state to make clear that Scotland has voted to stay in the EU and I intend to discussion all options for doing so.

I have also spoken this morning with [London] mayor Sadiq Khan and he is clear that he shares this objective for London, so there is clear common cause between us.

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2016 by Apech

[Karl]

Here's what the Scottish leader has to say :

 

 

 

 

 

I have made it clear to the prime minister this morning that the Scottish government must be fully and directly involved in any and all decisions about the next steps that the UK government intends to take.

We will also be seeking direct discussions with the EU institutions and its member states including the earliest possible meeting with the President of the European Commission.

I also be communicated over the weekend with each EU member state to make clear that Scotland has voted to stay in the EU and I intend to discussion all options for doing so.

I have also spoken this morning with [London] mayor Sadiq Khan and he is clear that he shares this objective for London, so there is clear common cause between us.

 

She governs 5 million people out of 71 million. Scotland have had it far too much their own way considering their numbers and the Barnett formula that makes them far wealthier than they deserve to be. That said, I welcome them voting for their independence from Britain if they feel that is in their interests.

[Apech]

She governs 5 million people out of 71 million. Scotland have had it far too much their own way considering their numbers and the Barnett formula that makes them far wealthier than they deserve to be. That said, I welcome them voting for their independence from Britain if they feel that is in their interests.

 

 

Boris, if that is indeed who our new leader is to be, has his work cut out to hold this together.  I understand Jeremy Corbyn is to have a vote of no confidence against him.  Which is not surprising given his referendum (non) performance.  We could see a whole repositioning of the political parties.

[Karl]

Boris, if that is indeed who our new leader is to be, has his work cut out to hold this together.  I understand Jeremy Corbyn is to have a vote of no confidence against him.  Which is not surprising given his referendum (non) performance.  We could see a whole repositioning of the political parties.

You know my view of political parties. I only want them doing little but upholding the law of the land. There is therefore a requirement for all unions to begin considering independence and that also requires less political party consensus. It's all been very good for the metropolitan elite, but since Thatchers era, there has been a complete marginalisation of personal sovereignty by soft tyranny, this has a had a terrible impact on the ambition and living standards of the majority.

 

After several years fighting various campaigns I see leaders come and go, but I always hold the same course. I would be as suspicious of Boris as I would of anyone else. Anything leading to less Government I welcome, any attempts at grasping greater control I will fight. I want to deprive the state of the oxygen it needs to grow and hold it on the very margin of life support. My efforts certainly don't end because of this unlikely outcome, it's a nice bonus and I will enjoy it, but thats all.

[joeblast]

 very glad to have been wrong about the first part....

 

 

now we will just have to see if parliament actually honors this non binding referendum...

[Karl]

very glad to have been wrong about the first part....

 

 

now we will just have to see if parliament actually honors this non binding referendum...

Notice we haven't heard from Osborne. I have outlined the possibility that the central banks will bash the pound until people scream, then George will appear as the saviour who will keep us in the EU. The establishment has too much power and money tied up in keeping things as they are, they aren't going to slump off into a corner, they will want to lock the people inside a barn and set it alight.

[C T]

Notice we haven't heard from Osborne. I have outlined the possibility that the central banks will bash the pound until people scream, then George will appear as the saviour who will keep us in the EU. The establishment has too much power and money tied up in keeping things as they are, they aren't going to slump off into a corner, they will want to lock the people inside a barn and set it alight.

Except for the goriness of the last bit, i had similar thoughts this morning while scanning the news. 

 

Who can say for sure that Britain will not reapply to rejoin the EU in a couple of years. Its hazy at the moment. Lets just hope its just a cathartic reaction which will in time find its own balance, but there are simply too many variables in the present equation. 

[Karl]

Except for the goriness of the last bit, i had similar thoughts this morning while scanning the news. 

 

Who can say for sure that Britain will not reapply to rejoin the EU in a couple of years. Its hazy at the moment. Lets just hope its just a cathartic reaction which will in time find its own balance, but there are simply too many variables in the present equation.

 

Remember George's 'punishment budget', Obama's 'back of the Q', Junkers 'no more reforms and no concessions for the U.K.' Mark Carneys 'recession'.

[zerostao]

amazing on many levels

[Jetsun]

If you look at the voting statistics what has actually happened is that the older generation has screwed over the younger generation.

 

The baby boomers who during their time had free university education, cheap affordable housing, plentiful employment (largely down to the stability created by the EU), large generous pensions with early retirement, who have saddled the later generations with mountains of debt and ruined the environment now have gone against the wishes of the younger generation who has to work and try to make a living in this climate and can no longer go and work in 27 other countries abroad.

 

Has to be the most selfish generation in the history of the UK.

 

 

[joeblast]

baby boomers?  I think you're getting your generations screwed up.  baby boomers had a realistic level of layout for college -  like on the order of a couple hundred bucks a semester - whereas by the time the next generation was in, it saw a tenfold increase to a few thousand a semester, and now with this generation we've seen another tenfold increase and its tens of thousands.

 

you remember when the EU came into being yes?  mid 90s or so, iirc?  "baby boomers" children were the ones in college then, so it is completely erroneous to try and assert that the EU had anything to do  with free education or pensions or some supposed stability attributed to the existence of the EU, especially with respect to said boomers.

[Miffymog]

If you look at the voting statistics what has actually happened is that the older generation has screwed over the younger generation.

 

The baby boomers who during their time had free university education, cheap affordable housing, plentiful employment (largely down to the stability created by the EU), large generous pensions with early retirement, who have saddled the later generations with mountains of debt and ruined the environment now have gone against the wishes of the younger generation who has to work and try to make a living in this climate and can no longer go and work in 27 other countries abroad.

 

Has to be the most selfish generation in the history of the UK.

 

 

 

 

Only by chance, I've just been reading an article on the BBC website on this very issue ...

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36574526

 

 

It basically says that, yes, it was the older generation coming out to vote against the EU which resulted in Brexit. But, if the younger generation can't be bothered to get round to voting then ... ummm ... they don't get a lot of sympathy.

[Karl]

If you look at the voting statistics what has actually happened is that the older generation has screwed over the younger generation.

 

The baby boomers who during their time had free university education, cheap affordable housing, plentiful employment (largely down to the stability created by the EU), large generous pensions with early retirement, who have saddled the later generations with mountains of debt and ruined the environment now have gone against the wishes of the younger generation who has to work and try to make a living in this climate and can no longer go and work in 27 other countries abroad.

 

Has to be the most selfish generation in the history of the UK.

 

 

Eh ? Were you living in a different Britain ? I was there.

[Miffymog]

Eh ? Were you living in a different Britain ? I was there.

 

Oh no, I've heard that these statistics aren't that far off. But they just don't cover what percentage of each group turned out, nor their numbers. Yes, the 18-24 group were strongly Remain, but they couldn't be bothered to vote, so their influence was low.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Miffymog