Britain and the European Union

[rex]

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/06/24/thousands-of-british-refugees-make-dangerous-journey-across-the-irish-sea/

[C T]

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/06/24/thousands-of-british-refugees-make-dangerous-journey-across-the-irish-sea/

Brefugees!

[C T]

Now London is contemplating leaving the UK 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-latest-london-independence-time-to-leave-uk-eu-referendum-sadiq-khan-boris-johnson-a7100601.html

[wilfred]

one good thing to come of this is liberals are showing their true colours in spades

 

 

but trump is hitler?

[C T]

one good thing to come of this is liberals are showing their true colours in spades

 

 

but trump is hitler?

He made a complete ass of hisself in Scotland, so he did. (doing the Irish twang a bit) lol

[Karl]

one good thing to come of this is liberals are showing their true colours in spades

 

 

but trump is hitler?

Because when it comes down to it, the philosophy is that of force. Violent people masquerading as peaceful. They don't want freedom unless it comes with a collar and chain.

 

The venomous spitting of the transvestite on newsnight who called Starkey 'an old white man'.

[zerostao]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/brexit-u-secessionists-hankering-texit-194835260.html  

 

hmmmm

[Orion]

I'm happy for the UK... and my opinion has nothing to do with xenophobia. People are crying about their careers and ability to freely travel; big institutions are crying about loss of money. What nobody is talking about is that Britain now has its sovereignty back. It won't be dictated to by a foreign organization. A British vote means a British vote, and not an EU vote. The establishment just got told, and I couldn't be happier. Britain will survive and thrive. The neo-liberal globalists will have to regroup over another prize. The world's richest lost $120 billion overnight. Awesome.

 

The EU has been a step toward globalized government and I am happy to see that objective get quashed. All of the really big problems in the world have been enhanced, not made better, by globalization. All it does is make the wealthier more wealthy and delocalizes sovereign power so that democratic process to stop it becomes weaker. Britain's referendum put a stop to it for Britain.

 

Micro-economy is the future. It's the only way to avoid trashing the planet.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Orion

[Apech]

I'm happy for the UK... and my opinion has nothing to do with xenophobia. People are crying about their careers and ability to freely travel; big institutions are crying about loss of money. What nobody is talking about is that Britain now has its sovereignty back. It won't be dictated to by a foreign organization. A British vote means a British vote, and not an EU vote. The establishment just got told, and I couldn't be happier. Britain will survive and thrive. The neo-liberal globalists will have to regroup over another prize. The world's richest lost $120 billion overnight. Awesome.

 

The EU has been a step toward globalized government and I am happy to see that objective get quashed. All of the really big problems in the world have been enhanced, not made better, by globalization. All it does is make the wealthier more wealthy and delocalizes sovereign power so that democratic process to stop it becomes weaker. Britain's referendum put a stop to it for Britain.

 

Micro-economy is the future. It's the only way to avoid trashing the planet.

 

 

The trouble is that the UK has, since the 1980's been busy selling off all its public assets and also many of its valuable private assets to the likes of Saudi oil sheiks and Russian oligarchs - it has allowed its manufacturing base to decline and relies on financial services to drive the economy.  Banking and Finance are globalist.  The idea that somehow the UK can persist as a private little sceptre'd isle is just a dream.

[C T]

The trouble is that the UK has, since the 1980's been busy selling off all its public assets and also many of its valuable private assets to the likes of Saudi oil sheiks and Russian oligarchs - it has allowed its manufacturing base to decline and relies on financial services to drive the economy.  Banking and Finance are globalist.  The idea that somehow the UK can persist as a private little sceptre'd isle is just a dream.

Singapore epitomises the little isle that thrived on financial and shipping industries alone. It is now the most stable country in the whole of Asia. Everybody thought it will collapse after she broke off from Peninsular Malaysia but PM Lee Kuan Yew made sure to turn every adversary to advantage. It has been proven possible, but then again, the mindsets are different - so the mitigating factor will largely depend on the leaders of the future, their motivation and vision all important. 

 

Malaysia, on the other hand, with immense natural resources and a wide manufacturing base, theoretically should out-do Singapore by miles, yet today the country is on the brink of collapse. Rampant corruption, nepotism, dirty politics and clueless party leaders who blatantly declare that vote-buying is part of their strategy to remain in power. Not to mention crazy Islamic laws being implemented. 

 

Just something to consider before dashing all hopes. 

Edited June 26, 2016 by C T

[gatito]

I could not dig; I dared not rob:
Therefore I lied to please the mob.
Now all my lies are proved untrue
And I must face the men I slew.
What tale shall serve me here among
Mine angry and defrauded young?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/boris-johnson-michael-gove-eu-liars

[Jetsun]

Singapore epitomises the little isle that thrived on financial and shipping industries alone. It is now the most stable country in the whole of Asia. Everybody thought it will collapse after she broke off from Peninsular Malaysia but PM Lee Kuan Yew made sure to turn every adversary to advantage. It has been proven possible, but then again, the mindsets are different - so the mitigating factor will largely depend on the leaders of the future, their motivation and vision all important.

 

Malaysia, on the other hand, with immense natural resources and a wide manufacturing base, theoretically should out-do Singapore by miles, yet today the country is on the brink of collapse. Rampant corruption, nepotism, dirty politics and clueless party leaders who blatantly declare that vote-buying is part of their strategy to remain in power. Not to mention crazy Islamic laws being implemented.

 

Just something to consider before dashing all hopes.

The problem is instead of having the formidable and noble Lee Kuan Yew we have Boris bloody Johnson and Michael bloody Gove.

[C T]

The problem is instead of having the formidable and noble Lee Kuan Yew we have Boris bloody Johnson and Michael bloody Gove.

 

karma perhaps 

[Apech]

 

I could not dig; I dared not rob:

Therefore I lied to please the mob.

Now all my lies are proved untrue

And I must face the men I slew.

What tale shall serve me here among

Mine angry and defrauded young?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/boris-johnson-michael-gove-eu-liars

 

 

 

Thank you Gatito I was going to link to this fine article.

 

Also to note ... the petition about a second referendum was started by a Leave campaigner when he thought they were going to lose.  Ha ha.  So much for all the comments about bad losers on the Remain side.

 

Never has a revolution in Britain’s position in the world been advocated with such carelessness. The Leave campaign has no plan. 

 

 

Just so - what I always said .... where's the post Leave plan??????

Edited June 26, 2016 by Apech

[Jetsun]

 

karma perhaps 

 

Its quite bewildering to be honest. Certainly some areas of the UK are going to reap the karma of their action.

 

Some towns in Wales were showered with EU cash, millions each year for rejuvination and had very little immigration, yet they voted leave https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/view-wales-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale . Poor areas of Cornwall had millions each year in grants, but voted leave http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-cornwall-issues-plea-for-funding-protection-after-county-overwhelmingly-votes-in-favour-of-a7101311.html

 

There is absolutely no chance the right wing of the Tory party are going to replace this money, they will be lucky to even get a penny out of them, any extra rebate money will go into business and pockets around London. They have basically completely screwed themselves over.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Jetsun

[Apech]

Its quite bewildering to be honest. Certainly some areas of the UK are going to reap the karma of their action.

 

Some towns in Wales were showered with EU cash, millions each year for rejuvination and had very little immigration, yet they voted leave https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/view-wales-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale . Poor areas of Cornwall had millions each year in grants, but voted leave http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-cornwall-issues-plea-for-funding-protection-after-county-overwhelmingly-votes-in-favour-of-a7101311.html

 

There is absolutely no chance the right wing of the Tory party are going to replace this money, they will be lucky to even get a penny out of them, any extra rebate money will go into business and pockets around London. They have basically completely screwed themselves over.

 

 

Turkeys voting for Christmas.

[C T]

Its quite bewildering to be honest. Certainly some areas of the UK are going to reap the karma of their action.

 

Some towns in Wales were showered with EU cash, millions each year for rejuvination and had very little immigration, yet they voted leave https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/view-wales-town-showered-eu-cash-votes-leave-ebbw-vale . Poor areas of Cornwall had millions each year in grants, but voted leave http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-cornwall-issues-plea-for-funding-protection-after-county-overwhelmingly-votes-in-favour-of-a7101311.html

 

There is absolutely no chance the right wing of the Tory party are going to replace this money, they will be lucky to even get a penny out of them, any extra rebate money will go into business and pockets around London. They have basically completely screwed themselves over.

Its getting clearer now why this period is known as the age of strife (from the Buddhist pov). 

[Karl]

Are you deaf and blind ?

 

This isn't about bread and circuses anymore, if people had wanted the status quo they would have voted for it. This is about taking back control-not just from the EU. This is a roar from the quiet people who no longer see any relevance in the political elite and their vacuous schemes and policies. It is neither a vote in support of the Tories or Labour, it's the opposite, we don't want them any more. We don't require any more political shape shifting, inclusivity or social engineering, we want freedom from all of that. We are sick of it bcause it has made people poorer and destroyed ambition and life chances. The EU is the very essence of that kind of Neo aristocratic authoritarian social sculpting and that is what people are objecting to.

[Jetsun]

I'm not a massive fan of Alastair Campbell but I agree with him 100% here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keDICf6Vax8 

 

He is basically saying how bewildered he is how rich privileged millionaire elites like Boris Johnson and Donald Trump have somehow been given the status of standing up for the people against the establishment. Of course they aren't, they have no clue how regular ordinary workers live and don't care about them at all. 

[C T]

Realistically though, Karl, someone from the old regime is going to take over the running of the country, for now anyway. The question is how much strain can the country take before the masses get to see at least a wee bit of improvement in their lives. To what level is the UK prepared to endure austerities before some permanent damage is done? 

[Jetsun]

Are you deaf and blind ?

 

This isn't about bread and circuses anymore, if people had wanted the status quo they would have voted for it. This is about taking back control-not just from the EU. This is a roar from the quiet people who no longer see any relevance in the political elite and their vacuous schemes and policies. It is neither a vote in support of the Tories or Labour, it's the opposite, we don't want them any more. We don't require any more political shape shifting, inclusivity or social engineering, we want freedom from all of that. We are sick of it bcause it has made people poorer and destroyed ambition and life chances. The EU is the very essence of that kind of Neo aristocratic authoritarian social sculpting and that is what people are objecting to.

 

This is a roar from the retired old people who fantasise about a non globalised world which existed when they were children 

[Karl]

Peter Hitchens latest blog is very pertinent to understanding these referendum results, because people are trying to treat them like its some kind of big mistake by the great unwashed:

 

They shouldn’t have tried to scare us. It is a sign of how little the Remainers understand or know about Britain, and above all about England, that they thought that would work.

 

I do sometimes wonder if these odd denatured shiny types, who actively prefer foreign rule to their own, ever visit their own country. Confined to glossy multicultural London neighbourhoods for most of the year, they then hurry abroad.

 

Most of them are more familiar with Florence or Barcelona than they are with the equal glory of Lincoln Cathedral, whose history, beauties and significance are alike unknown to them.

 

Well, they should have tried harder to visit Britain. They might also have learned to like it, its unspectacular difference from anywhere else in the world (I know, I’ve visited 57 other countries), its gruff reserve that masks much deeper feelings, and its ancient dislike of being pushed around.

 

Immigrant workers are pictured working the fields near Boston in Lincolnshire. The town voted 75.5 per cent in favour of Leave

 

The Remainers’ snobbery was their undoing. They believed they were superior to their fellow countrymen and women, when they were just luckier and richer. Judging from their response to the referendum result, many of them still do.

 

For instance, they refused to be aware of the quiet seething resentment about mass migration that I found in Boston four summers ago. The established parties ignored this, and the liberal thought police tried to claim it was bigotry.

 

But it was real, and this was reflected on Thursday night in a 77.27 per cent turnout and a 75.5 per cent vote to leave in that town. I do not see how these people could be clearer about their discontent over the enforced transformation of their lives. I am amazed at their patience. I strongly advise against ignoring them any longer.

 

Of course, it’s not just about immigration. A wonderful alliance, which I have long hoped for, has been forged in this campaign.

 

It has brought together two groups who had never really met before. The first group are the social and moral conservatives, whose views the Blairised Tory Party despised, while it still relied on their money and their votes. The second are the working-class families whose votes the Blairised Labour Party relied on, while it dismissed and ignored their concerns.

 

It is not just mass migration that worries them. They are also distressed about the decline in their standard of living, the pressure to get into debt, the way good state schools are reserved for the rich and cunning, the shrivelling of opportunities for the young, the unchecked spread of crime and disorder, the ridiculous cost of housing, and the general overcrowding of everything from roads to hospitals.

 

If it weren’t for old tribal party labels, these two groups would long ago have realised they were friends and allies.

 

They would have combined in a mutiny against the PR men and hedge-fund types who lounge arrogantly on the upper deck of politics, claiming that none of these problems exist – because they don’t experience them themselves.

 

For instance I, and millions of Tory voters, have far more in common with excellent Labour MPs such as Kate Hoey or Frank Field than I do with David Cameron and the weird, obedient, meaningless quacking robots with which he has filled the Cabinet Room and the Tory benches in the House of Commons.

 

But the ossified party system kept them apart until now. They could not and did not combine to defeat their common enemy. And so at Election after Election, those who merely wanted to live their lives much as they had always lived them, and were baffled and pained by the unending changes imposed on them, had nowhere to turn.

 

The parties they thought of as their own were in fact in an alliance against them. Blair became Cameron and Cameron became Blair, and after a while it was impossible to tell which was which.

 

It’s not just me saying this. As Janan Ganesh, a writer in the Financial Times, recently noted: ‘Conservatives and moderate adherents to the Labour cause share more with each other than with the rest of their own parties… Against them in this referendum is a party in all but name… drawn from the Tory Right and the Labour Left and incubated in the Leave campaign. These politicians are conservative and anti-establishment at the same time.’

 

Noting that people such as Labour’s Ed Balls and Chancellor George Osborne have much more in common than they like to pretend, Mr Ganesh says: ‘These politicians have the same basic orientation.’

 

He believes it would be ‘myopic’ for them to ‘remain separate out of fealty to a party system that was forged in the industrial age for an empire nation’. And he adds: ‘I hear the Tory and Labour moderates newly mingling in the Remain offices rather get on.’

 

I bet they do. That is why I don’t care who fills David Cameron’s place at the head of a Tory Party that long ago outlived its usefulness. There shouldn’t be any more David Camerons, thanks very much. In future, people like him should stand openly as what they are, globalist pro-migration Blairite liberals, and not call themselves Conservatives. So the important thing is that we do not miss this great moment when the people have joined together against a discredited and failed elite.

 

'Remainers refused to be aware of the quiet seething resentment about mass migration that I found in Boston four summers ago. The established parties ignored this, and the liberal thought police tried to claim it was bigotry'

 

What we need is for the Tory Party and the Labour Party to collapse and split and be replaced by two new parties that properly reflect the real divisions in the country.

 

Since both the old parties are empty and decrepit, with few active members and reliant on state support and dodgy billionaires, the collapsing and splitting bit should not be too hard. The replacement is up to us, the British people, who have now demonstrated our power if we unite.

 

But it can only happen if the next stage is a General Election, which is much more urgent than a Tory (or Labour) leadership contest.

 

Thursday’s vote shows that the House of Commons is hopelessly unrepresentative. The concerns and hopes of those who voted to leave the EU – 51.9 per cent of the highest poll since 1992 – are reliably supported by fewer than a quarter of MPs, if that. Ludicrously, neither of the big parties agrees with a proven majority of the electorate – and neither shows any sign of changing its policies as a result.

 

If we do nothing about this scandal, for it is a scandal, then how can we be sure we will get out of the EU at all? The elite is rallying and whimpering that the minority must be treated ‘with respect’– more than they would have done had they won.

 

Parliament is pro-EU. The Civil Service is pro-EU, the judiciary is pro-EU, the BBC is pro-EU and is now returning to its old bad habits after an admittedly creditable attempt at balance. Its 6am radio news bulletin on Friday said, falsely and dangerously, that the pound had ‘collapsed’ following the result and there will be a lot more of this foolish panic-mongering in days to come.

 

We have had only half a revolution. If we do not now complete it, we will have missed an unequalled opportunity to reclaim what is and always was ours.

[gatito]

Turkeys voting for Christmas.

 

Christmas is coming, the geese are getting fat

Please do put a penny in the old man's hat

If you haven't got a penny, a ha'penny will do

If you haven't got a ha'penny, then God bless you...

[Jetsun]

I agree with a lot of what you say there Karl, the Remain campaign was a disaster. I live in Cambridgeshire where many of the market towns voted over 70% to leave, mostly due to immigration and they do have valid issues which aren't being heard.

 

Yet this issue about taking back control is a complete illusion. All other European countries which are outside of the EU who want access to the single market have to accept most of the EU rules including about the free movement of people, yet they don't get any say in the making of those rules. The Tory party has already come out and stated that immigration won't go down. So what control exactly has been reclaimed? 

[Jetsun]

We have had only half a revolution. If we do not now complete it, we will have missed an unequalled opportunity to reclaim what is and always was ours.

, 

I wouldn't be surprised if Boris Johnson betrays your revolution, this guy is a full on European having grown up in an International school in Brussels and only went over to the leave side at the last minute, he has no heart or will in really cutting off cleanly from the EU