Britain and the European Union

[Karl]

It is rather astonishing, to me in any case, that we now have a 'Remain' Prime Minister and the complete annihilation of the 'Leave' leaders - Boris, Gove, Leadsom (who she?), Fararge ... all gone, and IDS invisible as ever. So we have 'Brexit means Brexit' May in charge. Is this some kind cosmic balancing 'winning equals loosing' thing - or does it support what I maintained all along that the Leave movement was just a load of emotional hogwash put forward by a bunch of lightweights - which just happened to capture the public mood for something to change.

 

I know Karl is going to say he doesn't care who is in charge as long as we leave the EU - but then there are signs already there of a some kind of a deal has already been struck between our bunch and Merkel - and ironically Brexit seems to have caused a pro EU swing in the rest of Europe and a move away from the far right. It seems very comfortable to me. Expect very little to change - especially migration rules.

What you are missing is the mood of the people. I witnessed this first hand amongst a bunch of biking buddies during an after ride beer. The only Remainer in the group was a public sector worker who had retired (along with his public sector wife) at 50 on a very handsome gold plated pension which has given him a lifestyle better than when he was working. The contrast with another member aged 65 and still working driving plant was stark.

 

Something has gone badly wrong. The majority of private sector workers were conned into believing that the state would look after their every need if they just worked hard and paid their dues. The contract those people accepted was a lie. Meanwhile, anyone in the pay of the Government, or using Government largesse to protect their investments has been raking in the cash. The referendum wasn't really about the EU, although important, it is about the systematic destruction of the working/middle/entrepreneur class and their lifestyles and opportunities for themselves and their families. It is the workers who are waking from a very restless sleep to discover that the state has quietly nicked everything including their bed. Not only are they not going to be looked after, but their families have had their opportunities smashed to nothing.

 

Under May The state is going to throw taxpayers money at the problem in an effort to quietness the angry mob. It will have to borrow the money of course and all the efforts will be nothing more than giant job creation schemes and pragmatic confetti of infrastructure improvements. Essentially this is putting glitter on a turd in order to make the workers hovels look and smell a bit nicer. May will pay lip service to Brexit and the EU will extend the hand of political compromise.

 

I doubt that bread and circuses are going to quiet the mob. I saw the anger in the eyes of my biking buddies and the casting away of pleasantries and politeness. If this spark has caught, as I believe it has, then things have already gone way past the turd polishing stage.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Karl

[Apech]

Wasnt Farage an EU mp for britain?  If so, what reason does he have to stick around in that position, if they're leaving?

 

You guys need Farage for PM

 

 

He's resigned as leader of UKIP - and we don't need him - he's a low grade twat.

[Apech]

What you are missing is the mood of the people. I witnessed this first hand amongst a bunch of biking buddies during an after ride beer. The only Remainer in the group was a public sector worker who had retired (along with his public sector wife) at 50 on a very handsome gold plated pension which has given him a lifestyle better than when he was working. The contrast with another member aged 65 and still working driving plant was stark.

 

Something has gone badly wrong. The majority of private sector workers were conned into believing that the state would look after their every need if they just worked hard and paid their dues. The contract those people accepted was a lie. Meanwhile, anyone in the pay of the Government, or using Government largesse to protect their investments has been raking in the cash. The referendum wasn't really about the EU, although important, it is about the systematic destruction of the working/middle/entrepreneur class and their lifestyles and opportunities for themselves and their families. It is the workers who are waking from a very restless sleep to discover that the state has quietly nicked everything including their bed. Not only are they not going to be looked after, but their families have had their opportunities smashed to nothing.

 

Under May The state is going to throw taxpayers money at the problem in an effort to quietness the angry mob. It will have to borrow the money of course and all the efforts will be nothing more than giant job creation schemes and pragmatic confetti of infrastructure improvements. Essentially this is putting glitter on a turd in order to make the workers hovels look and smell a bit nicer. May will pay lip service to Brexit and the EU will extend the hand of political compromise.

 

I doubt that bread and circuses are going to quiet the mob. I saw the anger in the eyes of my biking buddies and the casting away of pleasantries and politeness. If this spark has caught, as I believe it has, then things have already gone way past the turd polishing stage.

 

 

So a future fuelled by bitterness and resentment.  Jolly good.

 

I think you've got this completely wrong.  Pretty soon the Leavers will realise they were sold a dud and pray for a compromise.  Leave camp = no plan, no future = resentment and racial tension.

Smashing, great.

[joeblast]

He's resigned as leader of UKIP - and we don't need him - he's a low grade twat.

    I've heard far too much sense out of him to think such things of him

[Chang]

He's resigned as leader of UKIP - and we don't need him - he's a low grade twat.

 

You never disappoint with your Remainiac ranting. The really good thing about the referendum is that the Left wing Liberal Elite and the Champaign Socialists have let their masks drop and shown themselves for the spite filled, undemocratic thugs they really are. Well done sir.

[Chang]

So a future fuelled by bitterness and resentment.  Jolly good.

 

I think you've got this completely wrong.  Pretty soon the Leavers will realise they were sold a dud and pray for a compromise.  Leave camp = no plan, no future = resentment and racial tension.

Smashing, great.

 

You have failed completely from word go to understand Brexiteer thinking and I do believe that you are genetically incapable of any such understanding.

 

Whilst I am far from happy to see Theresa May (a woman who has the ability to appear both drippy and menacing at the same time) as Prime Minister I agree with Karl that a massive movement is afoot in England that cannot now be patted on the head and told to keep silent.

 

The Left and the Liberal can see this all too plainly which is why they are so full of spite and venom. See post 977 above.

[Karl]

So a future fuelled by bitterness and resentment.  Jolly good.

 

I think you've got this completely wrong.  Pretty soon the Leavers will realise they were sold a dud and pray for a compromise.  Leave camp = no plan, no future = resentment and racial tension.

Smashing, great.

It appears you have been taken in by the remainers media power and Twitter storm.

 

The leave campaigners had political figureheads appointed by the state, but it wasn't these people who influenced the voters, neither were these people responsible for any plan post Brexit. Any and all plans are the responsibility of the democratically elected party under the leadership of the PM.

 

The only 'racial tension' is a fantasy story by the media who are continually stirring the bitterness of the remainers. It is you and your ilk that are unable to accept defeat and it is you who are resentful and bitter. You have to fabricate a story around how the leavers 'were sold a dud' or 'didn't know what they were voting for'. That attitude is contemptuous and arrogant. The leave campaigners of which myself and Chang are two, were in no doubt about what we were voting for. Neither of us were 'sold a dud' and neither will be 'praying for a compromise'.

 

The winning leave side have continually reached out an olive branch to the remainers but all we get is arrogant dismissal and dummy spitting. We are bombarded with spite and lies in order to make it seem that we are ignorant, misinformed, Neanderthal, lumpen racists. So, let me withdraw that branch and put my boot up the arse of the remainers. We won, you lost, so it is you who will have to compromise whilst we stick up our middle fingers. We are British after all, we don't cow tow to anyone and we can put up with as much pain as is required to have our victory. We have proven we can beat the establishment and that their words of terror hold far less fear for us than it does for them.

[Apech]

Good luck with your delusion folks.

[Karl]

Good luck with your delusion folks.

Is that like the one where Seimens said they would move out of the U.K., the stock market would tank and the pound collapse ? Or maybe it was the world war, the immigrants in Calais getting parked in Kent ? Weren't all the banks going to leave if the vote went against them and Nissan was shutting up shop ? Weren't interest rates going to go up ? Weren't the USA refusing to deal with us ? Weren't the Germans and French going to slap on Tarriffs and refuse to sell us their cars, wine and cheese ?

 

The delusion was in the remainers camp. Not only were there forecasts and fear mongering completely wrong, but the opposite has happened. The companies that promised to leave have stayed and are starting to invest, the commonwealth countries, China and the USA have approached us already about trade deals. The stock market has increased, the pound has rebounded. We didn't go to war. The EU haven't slapped any tariffs on us and are now capitulating and withdrawing their empty threats. Even Merkel has admitted that the stream of refugees she allowed to flood Europe has provided cover for thousands of ISIS jihadists-something Farage was attacked for saying.

[Miffymog]

"She’s got dyed blonde hair, pouty lips and a steely blue stare, just like a sadistic nurse in a mental hospital"

 

...

 

 

[zerostao]

Is that like the one where Seimens said they would move out of the U.K., the stock market would tank and the pound collapse ? Or maybe it was the world war, the immigrants in Calais getting parked in Kent ? Weren't all the banks going to leave if the vote went against them and Nissan was shutting up shop ? Weren't interest rates going to go up ? Weren't the USA refusing to deal with us ? Weren't the Germans and French going to slap on Tarriffs and refuse to sell us their cars, wine and cheese ?

 

The delusion was in the remainers camp. Not only were there forecasts and fear mongering completely wrong, but the opposite has happened. The companies that promised to leave have stayed and are starting to invest, the commonwealth countries, China and the USA have approached us already about trade deals. The stock market has increased, the pound has rebounded. We didn't go to war. The EU haven't slapped any tariffs on us and are now capitulating and withdrawing their empty threats. Even Merkel has admitted that the stream of refugees she allowed to flood Europe has provided cover for thousands of ISIS jihadists-something Farage was attacked for saying.

i think it will be 10-15 years before it can be determined if this was a good move or not.

i supported the vote on brexit because i believe a people should have the ultimate say so in the type of govt of their own choosing. for better or worse, at least the people decided their own fate.

[Karl]

i think it will be 10-15 years before it can be determined if this was a good move or not.

i supported the vote on brexit because i believe a people should have the ultimate say so in the type of govt of their own choosing. for better or worse, at least the people decided their own fate.

I reckon about 6 months. The whole Turkish false flag coup suggests that it won't be long until we have Eurabia. The Euro is in trouble and the EUs policies are failing. There are stories that we may even see a civil war in France. The European banks are failing.

 

Meanwhile the British pound has found its level at 1.32 as it was severely over valued compared to our debt level. The stock market is at a high, employment is rising, the Chinese want to buy into our high tech industries, Siemens is talking about a major investment, no one has left and several countries have approached us wanting to trade now that we are leaving. Even the IMF admits it made a mistake and has increased our forecast for growth. None of the nightmares came true. We got rid of the Bullingdon boys and have tipped Labour into collapse. It's like the Sun came out.

[futuredaze]

I reckon about 6 months. The whole Turkish false flag coup suggests that it won't be long until we have Eurabia.

What makes you think that?  Wouldn't an Islamist Turkey attract people from Europe who are disillusioned with the way of life there while at the same time encouraging secular Turkish to migrate out of Turkey?

 

btw this is relevant: https://www.rt.com/business/352507-boe-no-brexit-slump/

Edited July 21, 2016 by futuredaze

[Karl]

What makes you think that?  Wouldn't an Islamist Turkey attract people from Europe who are disillusioned with the way of life there while at the same time encouraging secular Turkish to migrate out of Turkey?

 

btw this is relevant: https://www.rt.com/business/352507-boe-no-brexit-slump/

History.

[gatito]

Good luck with your delusion folks.

 

Even looking at the public face of the meetings of the Brit PM with her German and French counterparts (coupled with the appointed Brexit trio - two of whom are incompetent to implement their xenophobic buffoonery and one of whom is a de facto Bremainer...) it appears that if Brexit happens, it will be in appearance only, with the Brits having thrown away their hitherto disproportionate influence.

 

The other good news is that the EU federalists are being sidelined and the EU, as an economic/cultural union, will be strengthened.

 

Funnily enough, the Brexiteers have (unintentionally) done everyone a favour.

[Karl]

Xenophobic buffoonery ? Earth to planet Gatito. :roller eyes:

 

As a Brexiteers, if Britain leaving helps the ordinary people of the EU to improve their position and strength I would be very pleased. We had very little influence in the EU which is why we got nothing out of Cameron's supposed negotiations. We may have moderately slowed the pace of the project but we certainly didn't halt it. The very fact we don't use the Euro and the rest of Europe does tells that story very well. I don't know why you would think we would wish ill on our nearest allies, trading partners and cultural equals ?

 

Leaving the EU was only ever about regaining control of our own country in the face of over 9 years of falling wages, falling productivity, uncontrolled immigration, declining standards of public services. Basically everyone who wasn't in the 0.1% that was feeling severely shafted and saw the uncontrolled immigration, high cost of membership and declining business competition as a direct result of our membership. I doubt it was all down to the EU, but it must be remembered that this wasn't really a vote against the EU, but against a status quo establishment who were responsible for the situation for ordinary workers as they see it.

 

Anyone who supports the ordinary guy against the Neo aristocratic crony statist bureaucracy should understand. It's the same reason why the workers are rising up in all the other EU countries and demanding exit.

[gatito]

Xenophobic buffoonery ? Earth to planet Gatito. :roller eyes:

 

As a Brexiteers, if Britain leaving helps the ordinary people of the EU to improve their position and strength I would be very pleased. We had very little influence in the EU which is why we got nothing out of Cameron's supposed negotiations. We may have moderately slowed the pace of the project but we certainly didn't halt it. The very fact we don't use the Euro and the rest of Europe does tells that story very well. I don't know why you would think we would wish ill on our nearest allies, trading partners and cultural equals ?

 

Leaving the EU was only ever about regaining control of our own country in the face of over 9 years of falling wages, falling productivity, uncontrolled immigration, declining standards of public services. Basically everyone who wasn't in the 0.1% that was feeling severely shafted and saw the uncontrolled immigration, high cost of membership and declining business competition as a direct result of our membership. I doubt it was all down to the EU, but it must be remembered that this wasn't really a vote against the EU, but against a status quo establishment who were responsible for the situation for ordinary workers as they see it.

 

Anyone who supports the ordinary guy against the Neo aristocratic crony statist bureaucracy should understand. It's the same reason why the workers are rising up in all the other EU countries and demanding exit.

 

Good luck with your delusion folks.

 

[Apech]

 

I suppose the one good thing you can say about the Tories is that they certainly sort out their problems quickly.  Even though one of the chosen ways seems to be to foist your greatest buffoon on the rest of the world as Foreign Secretary - a seeming act of madness which might turn out to be an act of genius.  How many days did it take to get rid of that hideous Mr. Gove and the hitherto unknown Ledsome?  Not many.  So now we have Theresa May - who missed a big trick when she went to Berlin not wearing the exact same outfit as Mrs. Merkel (shoes and everything) which as someone pointed out could have freaked everyone out.

 

Meanwhile the Labour party chose the exact moment of Tory confusion and in fighting to implode, foisting upon us their own list of non-entities to challenge the anointed Jeremy.  Incidentally the NEC sent out an instructions at this time that there were to be no local party meetings until the leadership elections.  How very Stalinist.

 

And Karl don't tell me you don't care about all this.  Your Brexit has all the substance of a puff of smoke once this lot have got their teeth into it.  You just watch.  A soft Brexit landing awaits.  Deals have already been struck in the corridors of power.  Keep waving your Union Jack won't you. 

[Karl]

I never did wave a Union Jack.

 

I've told you many times that I'm in it for the long game (or as long as I can keep doing it) because I enjoy it. The Brexit vote was an unexpected bonus for me-it felt like a bit of a reward for my efforts. One thing leads to another and it's pointless to prevaricate over the future direction of May and her Government, she either will, or she won't time will tell and events will follow.

 

You are acting as if it was my only aim was to achieve Brexit and that any kind of setback would have me crying in my milk like the remainers do-hell, I had thought it a dead certainty we wouldn't get a referendum this side of my funeral, never mind winning it. We advanced a couple of steps towards Liberty. It has woken a large section of the population up who no longer subscribe to socialism, or progressive liberalism. I can tell you, from conversations and heated discussions that not only have ordinary working people not put away their newly discovered political weaponry, but are actively training with it and stocking ammunition. At least now I have people who want to learn and converse, where as, two years ago, trying to start a political discourse was the equivalent of asking someone to read the watch tower magazine.

[Apech]

I never did wave a Union Jack.

 

I've told you many times that I'm in it for the long game (or as long as I can keep doing it) because I enjoy it. The Brexit vote was an unexpected bonus for me-it felt like a bit of a reward for my efforts. One thing leads to another and it's pointless to prevaricate over the future direction of May and her Government, she either will, or she won't time will tell and events will follow.

 

You are acting as if it was my only aim was to achieve Brexit and that any kind of setback would have me crying in my milk like the remainers do-hell, I had thought it a dead certainty we wouldn't get a referendum this side of my funeral, never mind winning it. We advanced a couple of steps towards Liberty. It has woken a large section of the population up who no longer subscribe to socialism, or progressive liberalism. I can tell you, from conversations and heated discussions that not only have ordinary working people not put away their newly discovered political weaponry, but are actively training with it and stocking ammunition. At least now I have people who want to learn and converse, where as, two years ago, trying to start a political discourse was the equivalent of asking someone to read the watch tower magazine.

 

[gatito]

 

Even more reasons to smile - it seems that the bone has now been tossed to pacify the xenophobes deal is now out in the open.

 

I wasn't expecting it quite so soon...

 

 

Plans to allow the United Kingdom an exemption from EU rules on freedom of movement for up to seven years while retaining access to the single market are being considered in European capitals as part of a potential deal on Brexit.

 

Senior British and EU sources have confirmed that despite strong initial resistance from French president François Hollande in talks with prime minister Theresa May last week, the idea of an emergency brake on the free movement of people that would go far further than the one David Cameron negotiated before the Brexit referendum is being examined.

 

If such an agreement were struck, and a strict time limit imposed, diplomats believe it could go a long way towards addressing concerns of the British people over immigration from EU states, while allowing the UK full trade access to the European market.

 

While the plan will prove highly controversial in many member states, including France, Poland and other central and eastern European nations, the attraction is that it would limit the economic shock to the EU economy from Brexit by keeping the UK in the single market, and lessen the political damage to the European project that would result from complete divorce.

 

High-ranking UK officials said that while it was “very early days”, some form of extended emergency brake was “certainly one of the ideas now on the table”.

 

Any such agreement would, however, mean the UK would still have to pay a substantial contribution into the EU budget, although probably at a lower rate, and would lose its seat at the negotiating table when rules on the single market were determined, because it would not be a full member of the union.

 

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/24/brexit-deal-free-movement-exemption-seven-years

 

 

[Karl]

Yeah keep crying into that spilt milk :-)

[zerostao]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/15-hour-tailbacks-uk-france-heightens-border-checks-154213111.html?nhp=1

[Karl]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/15-hour-tailbacks-uk-france-heightens-border-checks-154213111.html?nhp=1

In other news Hamilton won the Hungarian GP, Frome won the Tour de France, Murray won Wimbledon and the last few days have been glorious. All of it down to Brexit.

 

I find it interesting that the press think people are so thick and gullible that they are unaware of causality. That they would attempt to pass off a migrant issue that has been the cause of over a year of strife with miles of stranded HGV in operation stack. Yet this is construed as a Brexit issue ? Really. We have had these same Qs at UK airport pass port controls for several years now due to the Government refusing to fund more security people.

 

It isn't Brexit, it's just shit Government policies, both foreign and domestic, particularly the EU which decided to let in millions of migrants from a 4th century culture.

 

Another attack today in Southern Germany has managed to go unreported. Machete attack by a Syrian refugee killed one woman and badly injured two other people. Much more of this and the EU will want EUxit

[Karl]

Yet another day and another attack on Westerners in Germany. This time an explosion injuring 12 ( 3 seriously) at a musical festival. Attacker appears to be a Syrian asylum seeker. One more day day of tragedy in the marvellous EU.

 

In other news it is now Portugese banks that are demanding a bailout from the public.

 

So, neither financial or social stability. Bummer.