Britain and the European Union

[Apech]

Even more reasons to smile - it seems that the bone has now been tossed to pacify the xenophobes deal is now out in the open.

 

I wasn't expecting it quite so soon...

 

 

 

 

Yes I think a deal has been struck.

[gatito]

Yes I think a deal has been struck.

 

Certainly hope so - and that it can be ratified.

 

I'm hopefully that everyone will see that it can be a win-win situation (essentially the Norway Option) with only cosmetic changes, although the Brits will (formally) lose their influence.

 

As Sun Tzu says there are no winners in a war - the best possible outcome being not losing...

 

[Jetsun]

Yet another day and another attack on Westerners in Germany. This time an explosion injuring 12 ( 3 seriously) at a musical festival. Attacker appears to be a Syrian asylum seeker. One more day day of tragedy in the marvellous EU.

 

In other news it is now Portugese banks that are demanding a bailout from the public.

 

So, neither financial or social stability. Bummer.

If the banks go under we would still have to pay to bail them out, whether we are in the EU or not, if we want access to the single market we have to pay and do whatever they want. We still have to accept the free movement of people too, so there is little stopping the Jihadi army that Merkel has welcomed into Europe with open arms, Brexit does nothing to stop them coming here. The fantasy being peddled is that we will get a deal which restricts the free movement, but the big business and Tories don't even want that, they will get their cheap labour no matter what.

[Karl]

Out means out :-) I know you Remoaners unable to accept it, but it's done and over. Instead you should get behind making Britain great and looking outwards to the world instead of acting like little Englanders. Many of those who voted to remain are beginning to realise their good fortune and luck escape-given that in 2017 article 50 will effectively block any other country from leaving unless they get agreement from half of the chamber-something not mentioned until after the referendum ! China, India, Brazil, New Zealand, USA, Canada, Australia are desperate to begin trade negotiations.

 

We will have a free trade deal with Europe without any strings attached, the problem for the EU is that every other country will want to leave if they give in before 2017. After that it's too late.

[Karl]

If the banks go under we would still have to pay to bail them out, whether we are in the EU or not, if we want access to the single market we have to pay and do whatever they want. We still have to accept the free movement of people too, so there is little stopping the Jihadi army that Merkel has welcomed into Europe with open arms, Brexit does nothing to stop them coming here. The fantasy being peddled is that we will get a deal which restricts the free movement, but the big business and Tories don't even want that, they will get their cheap labour no matter what.

Rubbish. Instead of being so negative, why not look to the future. Of course Brexit stops immigration from open borders with Europe. The problem with the supposed EU Jihadis is that they look awfully like pathetic little scumbags with No self esteem and heads full of drugs, pills and booze. The problem is one of domestic policy coupled with uncontrolled immigration.

 

Personally I have never made immigration an issue per se, the problem is uncontrolled immigration.

 

Big business is corporatism has had its day. It's one and done. The banking system that supported it is in turmoil and the spotlight has been turned on them. The people ignored the fear mongering of the establishment-ain't listening anymore and have disposed of their political apathy during the referendum. The people up here are bouncing around looking for a fight and that seems country wide to me. Our MP is absent having backed the wrong side in the referendum and her own party. We will take back control.

[Jetsun]

Out means... Well pretty much the same arrangement in terms of payment and immigration .

 

I think you overestimate our bargaining power with the EU Karl, they are not going to break all their rules just for us, or all the other countries will start asking for the same thing and the whole thing goes to shit.

[Karl]

Out means... Well pretty much the same arrangement in terms of payment and immigration .

I think you overestimate our bargaining power with the EU Karl, they are not going to break all their rules just for us, or all the other countries will start asking for the same thing and the whole thing goes to shit.

We won't be in the EU so they won't be breaking any rules, many countries outside the EU have nominal free trade agreements without any of the rope that goes with them. If we had to accept a small 4% WTO tarriff on their side of the fence-remembering that just puts up the cost to them and not to us, then that's fine. However I doubt that's practical. If we sold them RR jet engines and wings, then the cost of any aircraft would jointly rise thus making them uncompetetive with other manufacturers. It's pretty much the same with most of our trade, it isn't going straight to a domestic customer, but to a manufacturer who doesn't want his material prices to rise as a result of his Government slapping import duties on them.

 

The EU isn't about trade, had it been, then we wouldn't have been voting out. It's about am anti-democratic bureaucratic, Neo aristocratic elite and crony corporatism getting its way and doing very well out of it whilst the rest of us who don't do so well have to shut up, tolerate it and starve. Over the last few years the arrogance of the EU, corporates and our own Government has grown to an extent that they don't give a toss for anyone but their own little clique and the referendum stuck a sharp stick in the eye of those who have been living high on the hog. The people have spoken, I suspect those who were scared by operation fear will begin to realise they were hoodwinked by the elite as time goes on. Theresa May has realised this at least, but I don't think anything is in the bag at this point, there us still work to do, but be assured there are as many people (or more) that are happy to give their all to make it a success as was the referendum despite the odds.

[Karl]

The damning verdict on the IMF experts on themselves.

 

The strategy relied on forlorn hopes that the "confidence fairy" would lift Greece out of this policy-induced nose-dive. “Highly optimistic” plans to raise $50bn from privatisation sales came to little. Some assets did not even have clear legal ownership. The chronic “lack of realism” lasted until late 2011. By then the damage was done.

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/28/imf-admits-disastrous-love-affair-with-euro-apologises-for-the-i/

 

 

oh dem experts are real gud. Same experts dat boss Cameroon tell us make whole heap a trouble iss we leaves, yas sir dat surely wot then done tole us Brussels slaves.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Karl

[zerostao]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/business/dealbook/bank-of-england-interest-rates-brexit.html?_r=0

 

so, in objectivist England, they decide to push for greater QE stimulus?!!

Edited August 5, 2016 by zerostao

[Karl]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/business/dealbook/bank-of-england-interest-rates-brexit.html?_r=0

 

so, in objectivist England, they decide to push for greater QE stimulus?!!

Lower interest rates and more 'stimulus'. More adrenalin pumped into a corpse. We are hardly objectivist. Our debt to GDP ratio and lack of laissez faire capitalism should tell you that. Our country is definitely knackered.

[Taoist Texts]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/27/the-secret-history-of-the-eu-written-on-an-italian-prison-island/

[joeblast]

I love it how they frame it as if it wasnt entirely a project to undermine national sovereignty

[Miffymog]

I like to believe that there were good intentions behind these things. Stronger together, greater integration and unity.

 

But, the people in power were becoming unelected and unaccountable.

 

Unfortunately, almost any human being in a position of power who is unaccountable becomes obsessed with one thing, maintaining or increasing their power (especially those who enter into this kind of profession).

 

This then becomes a betrayal of democracy.

 

But, there are good intentions behind many of the decisions (such as Merkle allowing so many immigrants into her country, even if this is proving to be misguided).

 

I try to cling on to the positive interpretation of things.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Miffymog

[Jetsun]

Merkel allowed so many immigrants into Europe for completely practical or selfish reasons - because Germany had the lowest birth rate and highest ageing population in the Western world, without an new influx of people the entire economy would eventually stagnate.

 

Refugee influx helps halt decline in Germany's population

 

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2016/jan/06/refugee-influx-helps-halt-decline-in-germanys-population?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Edited August 29, 2016 by Jetsun

[Miffymog]

Merkel allowed so many immigrants into Europe for completely practical or selfish reasons - because Germany had the lowest birth rate and highest ageing population in the Western world, without an new influx of people the entire economy would eventually stagnate.

 

Yes - very true. This is the same reason why Tony Blair let so many Polish people into the UK 10 years ago. Now, 3/10 of new born children in this country are from foreign parents, the largest portion of this number are Polish.

 

We have a small advantage here though, the cultural clash of Eastern Europeans to Brits is smaller than that of Middle Easterns to Germans. We have now kind of learnt our lesson, Merkel is just starting to. But what will the result of article 50 be ... I wait with baited breath

Edited August 29, 2016 by Miffymog

[Jetsun]

I just hope by the time it is activated there is some kind of decent opposition to the Tories to prevent any disintegration of workers rights and environmental protections which they are bound to try to implement in the name of national progress.

[Jetsun]

Yes - very true. This is the same reason why Tony Blair let so many Polish people into the UK 10 years ago. Now, 3/10 of new born children in this country are from foreign parents, the largest portion of this number are Polish.

 

We have a small advantage here though, the cultural clash of Eastern Europeans to Brits is smaller than that of Middle Easterns to Germans. We have now kind of learnt our lesson, Merkel is just starting to. But what will the result of article 50 be ... I wait with baited breath

It is likely to result in more Muslim immigration and more immigration of people from outside the EU into Britain. The big business which has its claws in government will get its cheap labor from somewhere, they don't care if it's from Romania or Pakistan.

[joeblast]

   difficult to see how salting the earth can be done with good intentions

[Miffymog]

   difficult to see how salting the earth can be done with good intentions

 

???

 

From a very simple point of view, those who salt the earth are doing so to further their own particular aims, which is most probably to inflect damage on those who need that particular bit of earth. No one salts the earth that they themselves need to feed their own family. If they did, natural selection would have removed them.

 

Seek understanding of those whom make these decisions. 

[joeblast]

Seek understanding of those whom make these decisions. 

yes indeed

get to the root of it and that's why I said salting the earth

and of course nobody does that to their own back yard

[futuredaze]

It is likely to result in more Muslim immigration and more immigration of people from outside the EU into Britain. The big business which has its claws in government will get its cheap labor from somewhere, they don't care if it's from Romania or Pakistan.

The "refugees" are hardly working though.  I saw a statistic that less than 1% had jobs... which isn't surprising, since they don't speak the language or attempt to integrate.

 

I'm pretty sure the powers at be must have had some foresight about this... but still wanted them in.  I wonder why?

[Karl]

The "refugees" are hardly working though.  I saw a statistic that less than 1% had jobs... which isn't surprising, since they don't speak the language or attempt to integrate.

 

I'm pretty sure the powers at be must have had some foresight about this... but still wanted them in.  I wonder why?

There aren't that many refugees in the UK it should be said, nothing like the huge numbers entering Europe. It seems to be about the western values of altruism coupled with politicians need to virtue signal as a means to maintaining political popularity. There are many immigrants coming to Britain, but they already have a European passport, or a connection with former colonies.

[joeblast]

bags, seriously?

 

https://www.rt.com/uk/358397-police-spit-guard-bags/

[Karl]

bags, seriously?

 

https://www.rt.com/uk/358397-police-spit-guard-bags/

Don't know what to think about that. It appears to be a back door method of dehumanising the suspect. They will be gagging people next.

[zerostao]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rKkOGPGtOE