Britain and the European Union

[Karl]

 

 

 

Don't you mean when Turkey becomes a member?

 

Have you seen what this mad fucker has done to his own people ? He has sent tanks and artillery to a couple of cities that now look as if they are part of the Syrian war. Then he shot down that Russian plane whilst it is rumoured, his family was exploiting oil via ISIL and supplying arms. There is a fair amount of proof that the Syrian chemical weapon attacks were perpetrated by Turkish funded militia using gas derived from Turkey. Then Merkl is cow towing over the German comedian who is going to be prosecuted for satire. Meanwhile we are being held to ransom over the Syrian refugees. Not to mention the arrest of any Turkish press which opposes him.

 

This is like doing business with Hitler.

 

We have a holiday booked this year and I'm considering cancelling. I don't think we should be spending money in a country ruled by a corrupt dictator.

[Apech]

Have you seen what this mad fucker has done to his own people ? He has sent tanks and artillery to a couple of cities that now look as if they are part of the Syrian war. Then he shot down that Russian plane whilst it is rumoured, his family was exploiting oil via ISIL and supplying arms. There is a fair amount of proof that the Syrian chemical weapon attacks were perpetrated by Turkish funded militia using gas derived from Turkey. Then Merkl is cow towing over the German comedian who is going to be prosecuted for satire. Meanwhile we are being held to ransom over the Syrian refugees. Not to mention the arrest of any Turkish press which opposes him. This is like doing business with Hitler. We have a holiday booked this year and I'm considering cancelling. I don't think we should be spending money in a country ruled by a corrupt dictator.

 

1 ) you just lost your argument by Godwins law.

 

2 ) You booked holiday in Turkey?  You could probably get a cheaper package deal in North Korea.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Apech

[Karl]

1 ) you just lost your argument by Godwins law.

 

2 ) You booked holiday in Turkey? You could probably get a cheaper package deal in North Korea.

I recognise no such law :-)

 

What's North Korea like in September ?

 

Edit: new thought. Anyone who invokes Godwin's law is subject to Karl's law, which states anyone who Invokes Godwin's law to win an argument loses the argument.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Karl

[Chang]

Have you seen what this mad fucker has done to his own people ? He has sent tanks and artillery to a couple of cities that now look as if they are part of the Syrian war. Then he shot down that Russian plane whilst it is rumoured, his family was exploiting oil via ISIL and supplying arms. There is a fair amount of proof that the Syrian chemical weapon attacks were perpetrated by Turkish funded militia using gas derived from Turkey. Then Merkl is cow towing over the German comedian who is going to be prosecuted for satire. Meanwhile we are being held to ransom over the Syrian refugees. Not to mention the arrest of any Turkish press which opposes him. This is like doing business with Hitler. We have a holiday booked this year and I'm considering cancelling. I don't think we should be spending money in a country ruled by a corrupt dictator.

 

I don't see anything here that would be problematic regarding E.U. membership. We can even draw a line concerning that unfortunate business with the Armenians during the Great war, yes the genocide that the Turks still refuse to admit.

 

We should also remember that Turkey was Germany's ally in the Great War, Germany has a massive Turkish immigrant population and Germany could be said to have a special relationship with Turkey.

 

Yes the Turkish leadership and their government is well dodgy but show me a Muslim state where that is not the case. Sorry, I am not allowed to say that am I????????????

[Apech]

I don't see anything here that would be problematic regarding E.U. membership. We can even draw a line concerning that unfortunate business with the Armenians during the Great war, yes the genocide that the Turks still refuse to admit.

 

We should also remember that Turkey was Germany's ally in the Great War, Germany has a massive Turkish immigrant population and Germany could be said to have a special relationship with Turkey.

 

Yes the Turkish leadership and their government is well dodgy but show me a Muslim state where that is not the case. Sorry, I am not allowed to say that am I????????????

 

 

Tunisia?  Morocco perhaps.  I'm not disputing your right to say that but just checking facts.  Mind you most govt.s are well dodgy.

 

Oh and God bless her Majesty.

[Apech]

I recognise no such law :-)

 

What's North Korea like in September ?

 

Edit: new thought. Anyone who invokes Godwin's law is subject to Karl's law, which states anyone who Invokes Godwin's law to win an argument loses the argument.

 

 

If you don't want to go the whole hog to North Korea - you could just sit it out in the DMZ.  I can't imagine a more secure and protected place on earth.

[Karl]

If you don't want to go the whole hog to North Korea - you could just sit it out in the DMZ.  I can't imagine a more secure and protected place on earth.

 

Do you get hassled with post card sellers ? Is there a beach ?

[Apech]

Do you get hassled with post card sellers ? Is there a beach ?

 

 

No but the staff are very friendly:

 

[Karl]

No but the staff are very friendly:

 

 

And smart uniforms. I'm warming to the idea.

[zerostao]

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result

[Karl]

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result

 

Pretty much how I predict the results. Although, initially something like 80/20 for stay, I suspect it might end up 60/40. Unlike the more optimistic, I have little faith in the mass of people to make the right decision. Most of them buy lottery cards, read horoscopes and believe in socialism.

 

A win for the remain side might well have very unexpected repurcussions for those who are no longer contented to operate within a system which Is repressive collectivism. I think this might be reflected in a similar way in the USA if Clinton gets in. In Britain, the middle earners (of which I was one) are taxed at over 60% when all types of taxes are taken into consideration. It's actually better to earn a lower wage than a middle wage and then get it topped up by the Government. The Government always sides with big crony businesses-many of which have high numbers of low paid on their books-but ignore the small businesses which employ a vast section of the workforce. With the 'living wage', EU red tape and high taxes on the small businessman, it may well make them consider quitting. The result would effectively be that ALL businesses were effectively crony corporations and thus government monopolies in which price setting would be by regulation. That really is just communism. A mass of low paid serfs, stagnant growth, fixed prices and authoritarianism.

[Chang]

Pretty much how I predict the results. Although, initially something like 80/20 for stay, I suspect it might end up 60/40. Unlike the more optimistic, I have little faith in the mass of people to make the right decision. Most of them buy lottery cards, read horoscopes and believe in socialism.

 

"Hope springs eternal in the human breast;

Man never is, but always to be blessed."

[Apech]

"Hope springs eternal in the human breast;

Man never is, but always to be blessed."

 

 

Did you say breast?

[Chang]

Nigel Farage was on Sky News this morning talking about President Obama's intervention into the EU Referendum and said the President was driven by bigger considerations than just being anti-British.

 

"There is a bigger motivation and that is, with this trip, and with what he has said, he has guaranteed his financial future. He has done the bidding of the giant American corporates who want Britain to stay in the EU.

 

"Why? Because they want this Trans-Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership deal done so that the big American corporates can buy up chunks of our public services, including the National health Service - that's a bigger motivation.

 

"The issue here is that he is spouting a line, he is saying he doesn't think the UK should be an independent, sovereign democracy."

 

Another more interesting point regarding Obama's pro Super State speech was his insistance regarding the difficulties Britain would face renegotiating trade aggreeements with the USA should we leave the E.U.

 

This was the same speech in which he spoke of the "Special Relationship" still going strong. It is all rather pathetic if one gives it any thought, which most people don't.

 

 

 

 

[Karl]

Nigel Farage was on Sky News this morning talking about President Obama's intervention into the EU Referendum and said the President was driven by bigger considerations than just being anti-British.

 

"There is a bigger motivation and that is, with this trip, and with what he has said, he has guaranteed his financial future. He has done the bidding of the giant American corporates who want Britain to stay in the EU.

 

"Why? Because they want this Trans-Atlantic Trade and Investment Partnership deal done so that the big American corporates can buy up chunks of our public services, including the National health Service - that's a bigger motivation.

 

 

"The issue here is that he is spouting a line, he is saying he doesn't think the UK should be an independent, sovereign democracy."

 

Another more interesting point regarding Obama's pro Super State speech was his insistance regarding the difficulties Britain would face renegotiating trade aggreeements with the USA should we leave the E.U.

 

This was the same speech in which he spoke of the "Special Relationship" still going strong. It is all rather pathetic if one gives it any thought, which most people don't.

 

 

 

 

 

It should have at least made it obvious that Britain has no 'special relationship'. Indeed it hasn't had any special relationship since we defaulted on our First World War debt. By the end of the Second World War the USA had its revenge. We lost the empire, virtually all our Gold reserves and most of our major assets. We were squeezed as dry as a bone.

 

The US did not go to war for us or Europe, it went for its own purposes of empire expansion. Britain spent over a century doing precisely the same thing. Obama is looking after the interests of the USA-quite rightly. I don't blame Obama in the slightest, if only our erstwhile leader had that kind of front.

 

Unfortunately we have a pudgy, privileged, posh boy in charge of a group of average achievers who are incompetent, corrupt and cowardly. They have decided that the British people aren't good enough to prosper-and he may well be correct, but we must at least try to get off our knees. What we require is a shot of adrenalin, some stiff upper lip and British resolve fired in by the Government leaders, but all we get is doom, gloom, fear and acquiescence. It's like watching the crew climbing into a lifeboat and announcing that the ship will be steered by a committee of drunken passengers. Never have I felt so depressed about our prospects. It's like we just gave up and are waiting for the priests to give the last rites. There is never any mercy for the cowards who refuse to fight. They get taken as slaves or put to death. I suspect that will be our fate. We never tried, we just cowered liked whipped dogs too scared to bark.

[Apech]

.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Apech

[Chang]

It should have at least made it obvious that Britain has no 'special relationship'. Indeed it hasn't had any special relationship since we defaulted on our First World War debt. By the end of the Second World War the USA had its revenge. We lost the empire, virtually all our Gold reserves and most of our major assets. We were squeezed as dry as a bone. The US did not go to war for us or Europe, it went for its own purposes of empire expansion. Britain spent over a century doing precisely the same thing. Obama is looking after the interests of the USA-quite rightly. I don't blame Obama in the slightest, if only our erstwhile leader had that kind of front. Unfortunately we have a pudgy, privileged, posh boy in charge of a group of average achievers who are incompetent, corrupt and cowardly. They have decided that the British people aren't good enough to prosper-and he may well be correct, but we must at least try to get off our knees. What we require is a shot of adrenalin, some stiff upper lip and British resolve fired in by the Government leaders, but all we get is doom, gloom, fear and acquiescence. It's like watching the crew climbing into a lifeboat and announcing that the ship will be steered by a committee of drunken passengers. Never have I felt so depressed about our prospects. It's like we just gave up and are waiting for the priests to give the last rites. There is never any mercy for the cowards who refuse to fight. They get taken as slaves or put to death. I suspect that will be our fate. We never tried, we just cowered liked whipped dogs too scared to bark.

 

If the people of Britain vote to remain within the European Super State then so be it. Yes it will be sad and we will have been badly let down by the pathetic, the apathetic, the socialist and the liberal. But it will be as it will be.

 

We, as individuals will still, thank the lord, be able to pursue a path of rational self interest. They cannot as yet deprive us of that.

[Chang]

https://www.facebook.com/britainslosttheplot/videos/1736993319920924/

 

They say that a picture paints a thousand words and if that be the case then surely a video paints a million.

 

Sadly this is not the case. the video shown above could depict immigrants looting water from the London Marathon. It could also, as suggested, show people taking water left over from the Marathon which they had been informed they could take.

[Karl]

If the people of Britain vote to remain within the European Super State then so be it. Yes it will be sad and we will have been badly let down by the pathetic, the apathetic, the socialist and the liberal. But it will be as it will be.

 

We, as individuals will still, thank the lord, be able to pursue a path of rational self interest. They cannot as yet deprive us of that.

 

They can. A political system which imprisons the body, imprisons the mind. It's difficult to pursue rational self interest in a 8'x6' cell, if you will excuse the straw man analogy.

 

Our financial system is dominated by the state, if we vote to stay we will invariably end up with the Euro. As Greece discovered, when you surrender your financial system to a foreign power the economy quickly goes beyond the power to control. It's bad enough with the BoE and the Pound, but imagine how much worse it can become with the Euro.

[Chang]

They can. A political system which imprisons the body, imprisons the mind. It's difficult to pursue rational self interest in a 8'x6' cell, if you will excuse the straw man analogy. Our financial system is dominated by the state, if we vote to stay we will invariably end up with the Euro. As Greece discovered, when you surrender your financial system to a foreign power the economy quickly goes beyond the power to control. It's bad enough with the BoE and the Pound, but imagine how much worse it can become with the Euro.

 

This is true and the great fear is that should we vote to remain slaves to the E.U. then the Government may take it as a public vote to give them carte blanche to do what they like regarding Europe.

 

My own view is that if we vote to remain as a slave state then it will harden the hearts of those who are opposed to the E.U. and any pro European government would be walking the sharpened edge of a razor.

[joeblast]

If the people of Britain vote to remain within the European Super State then so be it. Yes it will be sad and we will have been badly let down by the pathetic, the apathetic, the socialist and the liberal. But it will be as it will be.

 

We, as individuals will still, thank the lord, be able to pursue a path of rational self interest. They cannot as yet deprive us of that.

dont be silly - if the people of britain "vote" to remain within the european super state, it will be because of carefully managed voter/electoral fraud, nothing more, nothing less.  just like the irish, just like america this century.   votes are to be managed, they cant be left up to the people to decide - but the people need to be made to think their say matters, otherwise they get a bit pissy.

[Chang]

dont be silly - if the people of britain "vote" to remain within the european super state, it will be because of carefully managed voter/electoral fraud, nothing more, nothing less.  just like the irish, just like america this century.   votes are to be managed, they cant be left up to the people to decide - but the people need to be made to think their say matters, otherwise they get a bit pissy.

 

Steady on old boy. We are talking about England - Home of Democracy.

[Apech]

They say that a picture paints a thousand words and if that be the case then surely a video paints a million.

 

Sadly this is not the case. the video shown above could depict immigrants looting water from the London Marathon. It could also, as suggested, show people taking water left over from the Marathon which they had been informed they could take.

 

Good point.

[gatito]

Steady on old boy. We are talking about England - Home of Democracy.

 

[Karl]

This is true and the great fear is that should we vote to remain slaves to the E.U. then the Government may take it as a public vote to give them carte blanche to do what they like regarding Europe.

 

My own view is that if we vote to remain as a slave state then it will harden the hearts of those who are opposed to the E.U. and any pro European government would be walking the sharpened edge of a razor.

 

It's about the damage done during the intervening years. I agree with you, already there is a hardening across the West to this incessant creeping corporatism mixed with authoritarian government with its mass surveillance and dumbed down media. I can see what is intended for us which is to spread to corporate net into every area of public service and combine it with some kind of service industry. However, I know my economics and the philosophy that underlies it. The reality is that the state is creating a hybrid socialist/fascistic economy which will, in the end result in its own demise through stagnation.