Absolutes

[silent thunder]

I'm curious what examples of absolutes others harbor as I find the concept to be inapplicable to all but a few very abstract concepts related to experiences which are really beyond words.  It's usually a red flag and thus unsettling for me whenever a conversation enters into notions about complete, absolute, unchanging, never ending, undiminishing, etc, anything.  Specifically I find the seemingly inherent notion within the common definition of absolute of any thing completely independent of all other things to be impossible. 

 

As to unchanging, or undiminishing... perhaps a few conditions I have experienced seem to fit the notion as I list below, but only from my current perceptual model, which is far from absolute and thus, for me, is not really considered definitive... it all seems very subjective and relative. 

 

Anyway, here's what the all mighty dictionary says

 

Absolute:

as an adjective:

1:  not qualified or diminished in any way; total.

     "absolute secrecy"

 

2:  viewed or existing independently and not in relation to other things; not relative or comparative.

     "absolute moral standards" 

 

as a noun:

1:  a value or principle that is regarded as universally valid or that may be viewed without relation to other things.

"good and evil are presented as absolutes"

 

The notions of second definition of the adjective version and the noun definition of absolute moral standards and good and evil being absolute are ridiculous in the extreme for me.  Utterly human mind notions that are fluid in nature based on cultural, familial and individual filters and as malleable as the context in which they are used to serve the needs of the one speaking in the current moment. 

 

Without any hardcore certainty, I consider my experiences of the concepts of Void... Emptiness... Clarity... and Awareness as potential examples for absolutes.

 

These seemed to embody for me, as I recall them, to be experientially beyond the potential for diminishing and thus seemed to be unchanging which would satisfy one of the inherent conditions of the definitions above for an absolute.  This however is based on my recall and memory of the experience and so pulls in all of my perceptual filters based on my reality tunnel and thus adds a rather high degree of malleability. 

 

I really can't fathom how they are in any provable way, independent from each other, or the rest of experiential perception based 'reality', nor can I conceive of a manner in which anyone could establish that they are, in fact, independent.

 

So what is an absolute? 

[Marblehead]

That is an absolutely good post.

[silent thunder]

And that got a solid chuckle...

[3bob]

in addition to blowing your mind with those concepts add in the 4th way ones about two absolutes and everything in between them.

[Michael Sternbach]

Numbers are rather absolute.

[Marblehead]

in addition to blowing your mind with those concepts add in the 4th way ones about two absolutes and everything in between them.

There are no two absolutes although there is everything in between them.

 

(I enjoy destroying dualities.)

[Michael Sternbach]

Singularity.

[Michael Sternbach]

Battlestar Galactica.

[Michael Sternbach]

Light.

[silent thunder]

Light.  Does it diminish and is it independent... that's definitely got mileage.  Although there are myriad varying frequencies of it, perceived and imperceptible, certainly that's got potential.  Especially as it ties in to my experience of awareness.  Though light doesn't seem to be unchanging to me. 

 

And as for concepts, numbers is a rather appealing one as well.  Two is absolutely two and no other number and in and of itself it does not diminish or change.  Nice... thanks for the input.

[Daeluin]

道

[3bob]

MH, you should study the material before passing a verdict, although just on the face of it I see your counter...

[3bob]

no construct is ever absolute and all mind can measure is constructs

[Marblehead]

 

MH, you should study the material before passing a verdict, although just on the face of it I see your counter...

Why would I want to waste my time studying something I have already established an understanding of, and therefore an opinion of?  Yes, I am still allowed to pass verdict - I still hold to the concept of free will.

 

The only absolute I would admit to would be the concept of a given amount of energy composing the universe.  And even light is first and foremost energy.  And energy is constantly under-going change.  Even in Singularity there was no fixed configuration of energy as it was constantly in flux in that state as well.

 

Be gone with absolutes and dualities.  Appreciate the variances of existence.

[Marblehead]

no construct is ever absolute and all mind can measure is constructs

 

That is a better response.  Hehehe.

[Karl]

no construct is ever absolute and all mind can measure is constructs

 

So you are saying that there are absolutely no absolutes ?

 

Or are you saying that you can't know anything and therefore are ruling yourself out of saying anything meaningful what so ever ?

[Marblehead]

When viewing the past everything is absolute.

[Karl]

When viewing the past everything is absolute.

 

Absolutely.

 

If you ate it, wrote it, kicked it, wether it was stolen from you, or given in a will, it is absolute. As is the solar system, life, death, Gravity and the need to consume food to survive.

[3bob]

if the so-called past, present and future are all contained in a big ball of a non-linear One (which btw linear mind can not see) then they are all open to change per will of non-linear being.

[Karl]

if the so-called past, present and future are all contained in a big ball of a non-linear One (which btw linear mind can not see) then they are all open to change per will of non-linear being.

 

Has that ever been your direct experience in accord with reality as it is ?

[3bob]

and which in accord "reality as it is" - would that be -

[Marblehead]

if the so-called past, present and future are all contained in a big ball of a non-linear One (which btw linear mind can not see) then they are all open to change per will of non-linear being.

If, and only if.  However, we know that this is not true.  Therefore the concept is null and void.

[Karl]

and which in accord "reality as it is" - would that be -

 

The one you simultaneously deny and respond to. It's not as if I'm being cryptic is it ? I'm not offering up anything other than what I can see, hear, touch, taste and smell. I can point, in a child like way, to objects I see without resorting to complex philosophical wanderings, or spiritual reverence. I point generally at that which surrounds me and that is reality. Don't you experience reality like that ?

[Brian]

Can you point to electricity? Neutrons? Light? Magnetism? Gravity? Inertia? Are these reality?

[Marblehead]

I can feel electricity.  I've done it many times.