The origin of mankind

[Karl]

Speaking of life forms... just took my gal to see the latest Star Trek.

Sadly I didn't get to work on this one, but it was a fun watch.

 

I still hold that the origin of humans is awareness.  And awareness lies under all.

It got an okish review-I enjoyed the first one, the second not so much, how does it compare ?

[Jim D.]

Silent Thunder who is the one who has the awareness and created humans.

[silent thunder]

Of the Abrams series, I prefer the first two, but this one also had the charm of those... It was just fun and didn't try to be more than that.  I appreciate the way they honor the original while still being their own thing, that takes some skill.  There were a couple of appropriately unimaginable moments that kept it campy and star trekkish and from taking itself too seriously.  Good fun.

 

As to the awareness underlying all Jim, I don't have pretty words for that, the experiences that engender that sentiment in me are beyond words.  At times the Taoists and Buddhists and the Bleeding Edge Physicists come close, but I'll leave it to them.  For me the experience and the living sense of it is enough.

[Jim D.]

A man's personal experience is the best endorsement of a unique experience. I rather hear it from a man like me, then someone who lives too many years ago for me to relate.

[Jim D.]

Edited August 6, 2016 by Jim D.

[Nungali]

The final outcome is that today they have been forced to adapt to a different way of life. Some of their own culture/knowledge has/is being absorbed as the two peoples integrate. If we lost all our technology and knowledge then I don't doubt that the Austrailians that survived would end up living just like the natives did and there would be far fewer of them. As a Britisher, I know all about invasion by higher technology cultures and that it has been a benefit to us despite some of the less than pleasant aspects of initial occupation.

 

You still insist on that 'in harmony with nature' but man has never and will never be in harmony with nature. Man is not given anything by nature, he has to use his mind and body to survive within nature. The planet is a place of potential resource only and we have to fight to survive upon its surface. I'm an adherent to a benevolent universe, but let's not kid ourselves that this means that the universe is a cognisant nurturer. If I was deposited on the African plains without a gun, water, food, or clothing, I would likely be dead within 24 hours. I could be said to be in 'harmony with the planet' as I provided a tasty meal for a wild animal and lots of microbes/ insects and eventually plants.

 

You nailed it !  You cant but help see everyone, even throughout history past and future   being reflections of Karl.  Of course YOU would be dead in 24 hours.  

 

people working with that environment instead of against it . Its like you x=cant conceive  of any possibility beyond your own experience ! 

 

Voila !  ...  and therein lies your problem and what is at the bottom of your lack of comprehension in these matters ! 

 

Indeed thou art Callicles, even in your approach to nature  life  the universe and 'everything' ; 

"  man has never and will never be in harmony with nature. Man is not given anything by nature, he has to use his mind and body to survive within nature. The planet is a place of potential resource only and we have to fight to survive upon its surface  "

 

Every indigenous person that was ever suppressed by 'empire'   is wincing or turning in their graves at that one ! 

 

I am not even going to bother explaining how wrong it is, or why it is wrong and  what calamity that attitude has lead to  as I now know none of that would make a shred of difference to your attitude.

 

I was right in my first reaction to your first comment  back when I did , I read you right after all .  But thanks for the clarity on your viewpoint . Now I really know where you are coming from . 

[Nungali]

No, we don't rely on it. That's an equivocation on the word 'rely'. You have a tendency to play fast and loose when it suits and then pick to detail when you don't. I call that the Colombo close, after the series that inspired it.

 

It is quite clear that we don't want to destroy our air, water or food supply. Indeed we have INCREASED our food supplies and the amount of potable water we have/we have access to. We have outwitted pests, animal competition, the changing environment, we have water cleaned in vast plants, stored and piped to us. We have drilled deep into underground aquifers, we can even liberate fresh water from salt.

 

I note you say "Dont want to destroy"   ... and you say I  am 'fast and loose'     ..... why didnt you write ' we dont destroy' . 

 

Where on earth Karl did I ever say modern life and western civilization has no advantages and I dont want any part of it ? 

 

Unless you are again assuming it was in posts that you skipped over as you have no need to read them as you "knew where the conversation was going anyway " ?   

 

again with the 'Nungers dont like or appreciate modern life '  trip   ... thats right , make up more stuff about this weird fake 'dossier' you have built up for me ... then you can criticize how silly my traits are     

 

I will contemplate this as I sit in the outback looking out to the highway to the long line of traffic trucks  , hating and failing at modern life and all the time  wanting to 'play Indians',  all fueled by my New Age fantasies of an urban Aussie boy .... 

[Nungali]

Im usually intrigued by these new tv shows where they dump some people together out in some difficult place , it always seems to me that the biggest hurdle is getting along, and that once the participant is alone they seem to get along better with the environment they are in.  And then my mind wanders to whether someone like an -actively old fashioned style native living Australian Aborigine- , would have similar difficulty dropped into the Amazon or not.  Since a great deal of information is stored culturally. 

 

yep ... no we cant survive well if dumped somewhere ... we survive in such places by culture , and culture is accrued and past on and learnt from an early age,  those that do survive after a 'dump' have been able to  ... wait for it ....

 

develop a new culture relevant to their needs and benefits  in consideration of the new circumstances they are in. Thus can take a lot more time than any 'dump' disruption took . 

 

This can be done as well .

 

I dont think a man anywhere , with no relevant local culture survives well from any sort of 'dump'.  We had a reversal here, they made a tv doco about it . Old Aboriginal man  was challenged by two guys; 'professional survivalists'  types, with all modern cons and backups , but they had to walk across the desert and scrub and 'mountains' (large rugged rocky hills )  from one place to another , several hundred kilometers .  'Old Backfella'  ?  He will just walk by himself with what he could carry.   What the heck ? No probs, he done that heaps of times ... let's see who wins . 

 

(Oh Karl would LOVE this   !     ) 

 

Too long, to funny to recount .... the Yank even cheated ! Embarrassingly so  ... the idiot eve tried to tow a water tank  behind him from a chest harness !  

 

The best part was when both the Euros were just about out of the comp . The Yank was literally crying and saying 'I give up, call in the back up truck ! "   The organizers  were about to call the whole thing off, too dangerous , then ... what about that old Aboriginal man ?  We better go look for him and make sure he is okay .   Eventually after a day they found him, middle of the day snoozing under a low tree, beside a rock . They wake him up . 

 

"What are you doing asleep, its a race , you arent suppose to go at your normal carefree rate ... ts a race , whoever gets there first ."

 

" Huh ?   I was sleeping . What are you talking about ? Its the middle of the day! " then he thinks a bit and realizes " Oh no !  Your guys are not sleeping at the night time and walking at day ... what on earth for ?  They get  sun, hot, dehrydrated . Walk at night cool, shady everywhere, beautiful too, go by starlight.  tell them to do that "

 

" Oh right !   But then .... you might not win ."

 

"Win ?   I dont want anyone to die out here ." 

[Nungali]

*poof*

 

You rang?

 

 

Yes. two tequila sunrises thanks .... actually, make that three tequila sunrises. 

[Nungali]

*poof*

 

You rang?

Yes. Could you please tell Karl he isn't the messiah, he's just a naughty boy

[Nungali]

*poof*

 

You rang?

 

 

 

Yes !   Bring me my fencing foil ! 

 

 

.... No, wait !    Something a little more 'heavy duty'. 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

*poof*

 

You rang?

 

<grin>

 

 

 

 

 

"Oooooo  yeeeees    ,   I did ! " 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

Makes sense to me.  All life is plant based.   (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

 

 

Yo be free basin bro  !

[Nungali]

Remember when I told you guys that I taught Ecology. I did and it was in a Maximum Security prison for females. I had never taught Ecology before but sad yes to the offer to teach because I needed the money. I totally bombed it...and I admited it to the class at the end of the semester. The lady's went to commisary and bought me a card to emotionally support me. One of the nicest gestures I have experienced in life.

 

I have not responded in kind because I don't know as much as you guys that have been debating the issue of what came first, the chicken or the egg. But what does make sense is to accept that we as humans need oxygen to live, and plants need carbond dioxide to live. I do not know how it is that a plant can live in an enclosed cookie jar, of which I have three that have tropicla plants in them. I open them up from time to time and feed them plant food. But that is it. They do the rest. I even feel sorry for them at times that they are closed in. But it seems they like it as evidenced by their continual growth.

 

I have propagated African Violets in a sealed pickle jar, and they lived without Carbon Dioxide. I never gave it a thought until you guys talked about it.

 

So, here are some thoughts on the universe and earth. After the big bang, debris went out from the center and traveled through space. Earth landed just right and was able to create and sustain life. Oxygen was created by a plant called algea according to the scientist that said so. Was he absolutely right. I don't know. Do we have a scientist or two in this discussion, or are they really good researchers. I don't know. But the question still remains a topic. And it is about the origin of mankind. Not the origin of oxygen. So, is the question a religious or anthropological one. If it is an anthropological question than we are still on target to  also bring in the physical sciences and humanities.

 

As a psychologist I don't understand the attacks on Karl. He is really good at arguing theoretically and philosophically. And if he makes a error or two, so what? Allow him to be who he is. Without Karl, we would be less one in our group. And that is not good.

 

I get the idea that Nagali is living like an Aboriginal Australian. I don't see anyone making fun of him. Brian seems to a professor of sorts. No one is making fun of his logo as if he could be a mad scientist. I mean look at that face. Would you listen to anything that came out of that mouth? But we do, because he makes sense. Or how about the Gorilla man???

 

It says at the top of this post that Junko started this sometime in March 2016. Maybe we should wonder where she is.

 

 

' Attack '   Karl ??? 

 

Nah ... actually he is free to add that I live like an Aboriginal Australian to his dossier of claimed knowledge about me that he makes his predictions on .  

 

 

 

Tell me Jimmy , have you ever been in a woman's prison ?

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2016 by Nungali

[Nungali]

Speaking of life forms... just took my gal to see the latest Star Trek.

Sadly I didn't get to work on this one, but it was a fun watch.

 

I still hold that the origin of humans is awareness.  And awareness lies under all.

 

 

What department did you work in ?   I worked in Aussie film industry  (as a grunt , mostly )  ... a few biggies and INSANE shit happening  (like flying helicopters below the skyscraper line in Sydney along the streets !  They will NEVER let them do that  again !   I got in  via friend , worked for him a little bit (grunting ) ;

 

http://www.advancedcameratechnologies.com.au/libraaerials.html

 

 

It can be fun    Once I was on another job  and he was working nearby shooting .  For some stupid reason they were filming in a park right near the  inner urban Newtown area (one of the biggest cafe 'sidewalk dining', narrow busy traffic and  and  truck and bus routes streets in Sydney )   with  ......  

 

water buffalo  !      ... they had a  'mishap; .... and came past us ....  with us  jeering and hooting at them ,  and they ....  

 

  " Shut the fuck up  !  "      

 

\

  

 

Then the news headlines :   "Escaped Buffalo run rampant  in Sydney after escaping in from film set."

 

 

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/escaped-buffalo-run-rampant-in-sydney-after-escaping-from-film-set/story-fni0cx12-1226864086096

 

Then we all watched it on the next night's news :   " Oh look there is Jimmy, he looks angry doesnt he ?  I think the Buffalo is winning ."

 

 

< voice from kitchen >      " Shut the fuck up  !  "      

 

 

Edited August 6, 2016 by Nungali

[Marblehead]

Yo be free basin bro  !

Just being me.  What more can I say?

[Karl]

You nailed it !  You cant but help see everyone, even throughout history past and future   being reflections of Karl.  Of course YOU would be dead in 24 hours.  

 

people working with that environment instead of against it . Its like you x=cant conceive  of any possibility beyond your own experience ! 

 

Voila !  ...  and therein lies your problem and what is at the bottom of your lack of comprehension in these matters ! 

 

Indeed thou art Callicles, even in your approach to nature  life  the universe and 'everything' ; 

"  man has never and will never be in harmony with nature. Man is not given anything by nature, he has to use his mind and body to survive within nature. The planet is a place of potential resource only and we have to fight to survive upon its surface  "

 

Every indigenous person that was ever suppressed by 'empire'   is wincing or turning in their graves at that one ! 

 

I am not even going to bother explaining how wrong it is, or why it is wrong and  what calamity that attitude has lead to  as I now know none of that would make a shred of difference to your attitude.

 

I was right in my first reaction to your first comment  back when I did , I read you right after all .  But thanks for the clarity on your viewpoint . Now I really know where you are coming from .

 

I was giving an example of the likely hood of that occurring to me. The planet does not spring to my defence, it does not sustain me, it neither brings me food nor shelter, clothes nor water. That's precisely the point. I must do these things for myself. I must figure out how to survive, absolutely nothing on the planet tells me what to do. I can take what I have learned from my own experiences and knowledge from other men, but there is no 'harmony' about it. This is precisely the situation that all men face. We have to make the best of it, we cannot go around trying to figure out if our actions are in harmony, our only thought is to survive, or to give up.

[Karl]

Yes. Could you please tell Karl he isn't the messiah, he's just a naughty boy

 

Oh the irony.

[Marblehead]

Oh the irony.

Gotta' have an irony board if one is going to use irony.

[Karl]

I note you say "Dont want to destroy"   ... and you say I  am 'fast and loose'     ..... why didnt you write ' we dont destroy' . 

 

Where on earth Karl did I ever say modern life and western civilization has no advantages and I dont want any part of it ? 

 

Unless you are again assuming it was in posts that you skipped over as you have no need to read them as you "knew where the conversation was going anyway " ?   

 

again with the 'Nungers dont like or appreciate modern life '  trip   ... thats right , make up more stuff about this weird fake 'dossier' you have built up for me ... then you can criticize how silly my traits are     

 

I will contemplate this as I sit in the outback looking out to the highway to the long line of traffic trucks  , hating and failing at modern life and all the time  wanting to 'play Indians',  all fueled by my New Age fantasies of an urban Aussie boy ....

 

Because we don't know everything-unlike you who believes he has a super natural connection with the planet that tells him what exactly he must do, most of us have to figure out for ourselves what works, that doesn't always mean we have the perfect solution, we might need to adapt it over time. Sometimes we don't know we shouldn't piss into the wind, but we do it the first time.

 

It's your continued use of words like 'rely' on the planet and 'live in harmony ' with the planet that reveal your position. Please clarify exactly what you mean and how you would achieve it for everyone in the entire world. How would it work in practice. Let's have your thesis belt and braces without the pretty lines.

[Karl]

Gotta' have an irony board if one is going to use irony.

:-)

[Brian]

Yes. two tequila sunrises thanks .... actually, make that three tequila sunrises.

I have delivered them to your local watering hole -- just tell them Brian sent you.

[Brian]

I note you say "Dont want to destroy" ... and you say I am 'fast and loose' ..... why didnt you write ' we dont destroy' .

 

Where on earth Karl did I ever say modern life and western civilization has no advantages and I dont want any part of it ?

 

Unless you are again assuming it was in posts that you skipped over as you have no need to read them as you "knew where the conversation was going anyway " ?

 

again with the 'Nungers dont like or appreciate modern life ' trip ... thats right , make up more stuff about this weird fake 'dossier' you have built up for me ... then you can criticize how silly my traits are

 

I will contemplate this as I sit in the outback looking out to the highway to the long line of traffic trucks , hating and failing at modern life and all the time wanting to 'play Indians', all fueled by my New Age fantasies of an urban Aussie boy ....

Creating a false dichotomy and boldly proclaiming the other guy has taken one end is a familiar modus operandi.

[Brian]

Yes. Could you please tell Karl he isn't the messiah, he's just a naughty boy

Done!

 

[Brian]

 

 

Yes ! Bring me my fencing foil !

 

 

.... No, wait ! Something a little more 'heavy duty'.

 

 

 

What a superb show that was!

 

A simple broadsword or something more? A nice hand-and-a-half, perhaps?