Karl Posted March 28, 2016 Prior to Van Leeuwenhoek, your logic would have provided surety that nothing lived smaller than visible by the naked eye. He produced proof of his assertion. There were already variations in dimension amongst objects and entities. That there are small and smaller creatures isn't something people are not aware of. It's then possible that smaller creatures exist than the ones we can see and that larger creatures have existed than the ones we see today. The same goes for inanimate objects such as tiny grains of sand. However, did VL wander around saying 'it's possible, you can't prove it isn't?' No. He set to work to find out if his assertion was true knowing full well it might not be. People get on proving things and then present those findings. That's why I say that it is up to the one asserting the theory who must present the evidence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted March 28, 2016 Probably don't believe in unicorns, either? Only in fairy stories. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted March 28, 2016 http://www.sciencealert.com/a-fossilised-skull-has-revealed-when-the-last-siberian-unicorn-lived-on-earth 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted March 28, 2016 Karl ,, Didn't you ever watch Miracle on 34th Street? Ok fine , In the realm of courtroom jargon , asked by an attorney , under oath , I would say I do not believe its possible that aliens had anything whatsoever to do with building the Egyptian pyramids. Now ... The opposing attorney has you on the stand and asks, IF an alien spacecraft landed directly in front of you , and a grey guy with giant eyes emerged hovering above the ground , Would you consider that it was possible that you had indeed been presumptuous in your declaring the impossibility of extra-terrestrial contact? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted March 28, 2016 http://www.sciencealert.com/a-fossilised-skull-has-revealed-when-the-last-siberian-unicorn-lived-on-earth "Most likely, the south of Western Siberia was a refúgium, where this rhino persevered the longest in comparison with the rest of its range," said one of the team, Andrey Shpanski. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) "Most likely, the south of Western Siberia was a refúgium, where this rhino persevered the longest in comparison with the rest of its range," said one of the team, Andrey Shpanski. Funny how that works, isn't it? Seems they've been hiding in plain sight all along. Edited March 28, 2016 by Brian 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted March 28, 2016 Karl ,, Didn't you ever watch Miracle on 34th Street? Ok fine , In the realm of courtroom jargon , asked by an attorney , under oath , I would say I do not believe its possible that aliens had anything whatsoever to do with building the Egyptian pyramids. Now ... The opposing attorney has you on the stand and asks, IF an alien spacecraft landed directly in front of you , and a grey guy with giant eyes emerged hovering above the ground , Would you consider that it was possible that you had indeed been presumptuous in your declaring the impossibility of extra-terrestrial contact? Under oath you could not offer evidence of alien activity. What might be possible is pure conjecture and would be inadmissible. Has the second thing happened ? No. Let's say I said it did. Yet no one else had seen it. I had no picture proof, no evidence at all. Military and civilian defence radar had not spotted it and the supposed landing site had no sign of any disturbance. Then it didn't happen. There is no possibility of corroborating the evidence. I might be convinced I saw it, but beyond that nothing can be said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted March 28, 2016 Maybe it hasn't. To me (and many others), the occultist world view touches everything. If it is valid in the areas of astrology, numerology, medicine, agriculture, etc, chances are that there is also a lot of validity to it regarding history. In either case, it is often far from what academic science acknowledges. Have you ever heard the term 'historical metaphysics'? Is it like 'mythological history' ? ( A term I use to describe things like 'history lectures' and 'moral stories' in 'Orders' eg. The building of Solomon's Temple , Hiram Abiff, etc. In Freemasonry. ) The problem here is that you can go astray in every direction. Not following you with that one ? Not at all. But you should try to connect these things with one another, imo. All right, maybe I should have phrased it differently. But I'm under the impression that you believed the stuff and then felt betrayed when you saw that some of it wasn't valid, and threw it all away in favour of the tentative and changing conclusions of academic science. I didnt feel 'betrayed' ... but my opinions certainly changed , eg, when finding out Sitchen couldnt even read cuneiform .... and his rad ideas are supposedly based on his own interpretations of cuneiform I am surprised you think I 'threw it all away' as I know you have read some of my other writings. No doubt about it. But you seem to be more similar to him than you are aware of, given your pronounced scepticism and taking offence with representants of an occultist view of history. Even an 'occult view of history' should be able to show some reputable evidence . Perhaps we have an entirely different understanding of 'occult' ? And lest I make you confused again: How come virtually all great occultists from Kircher to Steiner accepted the Atlantis theory? Michael ... Kircher lived in the 1600 s ! ( and I would love to know what his understanding of what " the Atlantis theory " is ? ) . Steiner .... just like other famous mystics, was not infallible or perfect . People back then believed in all sorts of crazy stuff, as they still do today. I think its more likely Steiner adopted 'the Atlantis Theory' as he came during/after Ignatius Donnelly (unlike Kircher) , who 'invented' the Atlantis theory of civilisations - the theory is actually based on a superior 'Empire Mentality' . Some were still basing 'occult history' on Bible stories. I recommend incorporating a modern view; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantis This was the old view about Egyptian civilisation, that it came in from the east to the Upper Nile (near the big bend ) from 'boat people' landing on the west coast of the Red Sea. They bought 'civilisation' with them. ( I am reading a book on this at the moment 'Genesis of the Pharaohs' , where it looks at this old 'evidence' in a new light ) . The basic point is, those guys were old Victorian (at least ) and sooooo much research and findings have been made since. One must 'keep up to speed' . That's what I mean. Likewise, von Däniken admitted that he was overly enthusiastic and therefore too careless in some if his earlier statements. But that doesn't mean that his whole work should be dismissed. Its not VonDanniken's own partial criticisms of his own work I am looking at ... my view and criticisms of him a much much wider than that ! I never said that Hancock supported the alien hypothesis regarding the pyramids, and neither do I without reservations; just that he thinks they could not have been built with what orthodox Egyptology says was available at the time and place. But , strangely enough, orthodox Egyptology does not agree with him. They state they have a pretty good idea how they did most of it. Again, if you can specifically put up an example of what you mean , then perhaps we can examine it ? One classic example is that it is often said how perfect and exact all the blocks fit ... with no gaps . Yet there is clear evidence in situ and in photographs this is not the case. Some areas of construction in the G . P, are a messy mish mash. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted March 28, 2016 I am not talking about a bad alien here.kind of alien I am talking about is a good alien which cooperate with humans. Understood ! But no signs of them being here or helping building in Egypt . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted March 28, 2016 I can't prove I ate a jerk chicken burrito for dinner last night but it happened. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted March 28, 2016 Where did you find one of those? That just doesn't seem natural. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted March 28, 2016 Wait... A UFO shot a wine glass out of Michael's hand?!? Why is this not getting media coverage??? I smell a cover-up. A ridiculous concept .... before he even drank the wine . But after 7 wines ...... I swear ! I saw that UFO too ! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted March 28, 2016 I can't prove I ate a jerk chicken burrito for dinner last night but it happened. I can believe in that possibility Brian. Jerk is an edible spice mix Chicken is an edible kind of fowl Burritos are an edible kind of bread I see in shops. Humans need to eat Night is a particular kind of term reserved for a late time of day. We can check your till receipts, credit cards and fridge contents. I can ask your family, friends, colleagues neighbours if they observed you eating said tasty snack. We can check the position through your mobile phone. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted March 28, 2016 http://www.sciencealert.com/a-fossilised-skull-has-revealed-when-the-last-siberian-unicorn-lived-on-earth Can't check your link Brian. I can't check any links unfortunately.....Apple strikes again, releasing a software update that breaks every link in Google/yahoo/email/forums. :-( I'm guessing your link doesn't contain magic, single horned horses as is the accepted form of unicorn ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted March 28, 2016 I can believe in that possibility Brian. Jerk is an edible spice mix Chicken is an edible kind of fowl Burritos are an edible kind of bread I see in shops. Humans need to eat Night is a particular kind of term reserved for a late time of day. We can check your till receipts, credit cards and fridge contents. I can ask your family, friends, colleagues neighbours if they observed you eating said tasty snack. We can check the position through your mobile phone.Yet none of your efforts would be fruitful, Karl. I went alone, paid cash, I ate it all, GPS was turned off, I'm an unmemorable customer on a busy night (the place serves $1 local draft beers on Sunday) in a place I very rarely visit but the screaming kids with the party in front of me were quite remarkable -- someone else even held the door for me on my way in so no fingerprints. Neither of us could prove it happened. By your statement above, that means it didn't happen. Perhaps you don't have this down so well yet. Keep working! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) I think alien civilizations are aware of our planet and have been here long ago - perhaps pursuing different agendas, some in line with humanity's wellbeing, others less so. There are ancient descriptions of wars of the 'Gods' in the sky, for instance in certain vedantas. Quotes please .... and not some 'modern' (comparatively) take written well after the Vedas about 'vimanas' ... by 'you know who' .... The original description is of an ornate temple roof ! Ray weapons of great destructive power were being used. Flying vehicles of different sizes are described in technical detail. One text even elaborates on what the pilots should be wearing; overall, it reads much rather like a manual than like a religious text. source please ! ( I always have sauce ) There are Sumerian texts that seem to describe similar scenarios. Ditto , source please ... and dont quote Sitchen ... he cant even read cuneiform ! Such descriptions can also be found in other cultures. Like ? ? ? No offense MIchael, but you seem to have resorted to pulling 'references' out of your ....... lets say ' New Age Akashic Record ' . .... anyone can make such similar unreferenced claims , and just affirm or deny all that. Can we be certain that this is all purely mythological? No. But we can be rational and follow the evidence and try to get over our wish / belief prejudices . and I dont get the 'mythological part' ..... for me , real mythology has valuable psychological lessons. The only lesson I get from this Atlantis theory is one of post Victorian Empire building racial superiority ( not from you, but that seems to be at the heart of it for those that developed it ). Edited March 28, 2016 by Nungali Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) Can't check your link Brian. I can't check any links unfortunately.....Apple strikes again, releasing a software update that breaks every link in Google/yahoo/email/forums. :-( I'm guessing your link doesn't contain magic, single horned horses as is the accepted form of unicorn ? So now unicorns must conform to your notion to be real? Next you'll be telling me atoms are a cluster of little balls surrounded by a set of other littler balls flying around in a series of tilted circles? That is the common notion, right? Relatively easy to "prove" yet demonstrably false. Edited March 28, 2016 by Brian 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted March 28, 2016 I guess we all have a mental balancing act between skeptic and uber open mindedness. I probably have a default skeptic setting, but fight against it because.. that's where the fun is. You might miss things if a skeptical mindset keeps you from noticing the strange side of reality. It never stopped me as skepticism should be applied to both views. I not only notice the strange side of reality .... my friends tell me I attract it ! Its fun, and makes life interesting . Being a Burner means when you see strange lights land in a field, you want to walk up to it, beer in hand and shout out 'How was your flight?' 'When' ? Oh ... how times have changed Back in the 'old days' if you saw an unshaven, wildly gesturing, swearing and abusing someone who isnt there maniac walking out into the traffic without paying attention.... the guys in white coats would come and drag him away ... for his own good ! Nowadays its just some hipster stockbroker on his bluetooth. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apech Posted March 28, 2016 Aliens: Greetings earthmen. Mankind: Oh hi! Like your spaceship! Aliens: Yes we flew half way across the Galaxy to your tiny planet. Mankind: That's nice - what you going to do now? Aliens: Cut some big stones and pile them up into a pointy thing. Mankind: Oh! Well .... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted March 28, 2016 Yet none of your efforts would be fruitful, Karl. I went alone, paid cash, I ate it all, GPS was turned off, I'm an unmemorable customer on a busy night (the place serves $1 local draft beers on Sunday) in a place I very rarely visit but the screaming kids with the party in front of me were quite remarkable -- someone else even held the door for me on my way in so no fingerprints. Neither of us could prove it happened. By your statement above, that means it didn't happen.Perhaps you don't have this down so well yet. Keep working! Not sure why I have to prove you ate a burrito, but yeah, it's possible. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted March 28, 2016 This is just a human way of thinking. The art is we should not think like humans. Think like what then ? Dogs ? Junko .... you are human ..... you are a mammalian primate , you realise that dont you ? If you want to not be like something you are ..... you are in for an upset at some stage. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted March 28, 2016 Probably don't believe in unicorns, either? Unicorns have a very sharp spiral horn ..... the Egyptians used them to bore tiny holes in granite . 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted March 28, 2016 So now unicorns must conform to your notion to be real?Next you'll be telling me atoms are a cluster of little balls surrounded by a set of other littler balls flying around in a series of tilted circles? That is the common notion, right?Relatively easy to "prove" yet demonstrably false. Not to my particular notion, but what we generally accept as the creature having those mythical qualities. Like Pegasus is a flying horse, you can then show me a bat and tell me I just had a notional idea that it was a winged, flying horse. If you say that at some time there existed a kind of creature about the size of a horse with a single horn I'm quite happy to accept that as plausible. I don't know what atoms are, I've never seen them, I've seen depiction of them as you have shown but it's outside of my knowledge other than the qualities and theories I learned in physics. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted March 28, 2016 http://www.sciencealert.com/a-fossilised-skull-has-revealed-when-the-last-siberian-unicorn-lived-on-earth no no no .... unicorns are all purdy like Thats an ancient Siberian Rhinoplastisaurus 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Posted March 28, 2016 Unicorns have a very sharp spiral horn ..... the Egyptians used them to bore tiny holes in granite . Alien dog thing type unicorns ? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
