The origin of mankind

[Karl]

I've never seen something like this Karl wants to advertise himself on my threads.

Why I mentioned horoscope that we are connected to the soler system.For example one of our eye belong to Moon or Sun.Then our body belong to Saturn.

 

You do want to know the origin of man ? Our conceptual faculty and volition are critical to any analysis. If you wanted to know where anything comes from you must first understand what makes it tick, but even more so if that object is man himself and this is the faculty that is required to discover it.

 

Unless you have figured it out of course, then I defer to your knowledge.

[Junko]

The origin of Karl..........!

[Marblehead]

The origin of Karl..........!

The egg came first.

[Nungali]

I was suggested the idea that the mind has some empty shelves, and one places things on them. It could be likes and dislikes, gender identity, phobias, profanity, justice,,to name several. The mind then can be seen as not exactly blank ,, but not exactly programmed. This fits facts as I see em , and it bridges a gap between nature vs nurture ists. Similarly, proclivities and predispositions arent always brought to bear fruit.

... the abuse of what powers exactly?

 

This is closer to my ideas , I pretty much adopt the  Exopsychology model here.  yes, you do come with a series of 'shelves' , or 'programs'  or circuits  .... the first 4, each  a bit like the MS word doc on my computer, but in a sense 'empty' until I write something in it and store it. 

 

Exopsychology maps 4 like this; basic  HSS survival skills,  I suppose we could call the 'drives' or 'syndromes, bio-survival, anal-territorial, artistic-creative, socio-sexual.

 

The other 4 relate to  neuro-somatic states, genetic information, 'energetic'  systems .  ( 'bio electric' or nerve system, etc. ) with the last, being a non-local  type of HSS 'Anima Mundi' .  .. .. .   or, if one prefers 'non-local consciousness'. 

 

I think somewhere, the human bio-computer picked up an 'operational virus'. 

[Marblehead]

I think somewhere, the human bio-computer picked up an 'operational virus'. 

You think?

[Nungali]

Hierarchy of concepts based on direct experience of and rooted in reality. The nature of man is a rational animal-who most use his mind to survive as his only tool of survival. However, it is relatively easy to distort the link to reality by the use of torture- as practised by millions of state education institutions and by violent/abusive parents. Indoctrinate children with the idea that socialism is good, there is a God, reality can't be known and therefore pragmatism is a necessity, use tests to allocate them their place in society which will follow them around from job to job, discourage them from critical thinking and logic-teach skills, disrupt their learning with bells, give them pointless tasks in order that they obey commands from authority, teach them Government/ state are necessary for their survival and happiness. However, though brain washing indoctrination certainly works and breaks the link between reality and concept the mind is still able to relearn, to undo what was done, to break the states conditioning and reconnect with reality.

 

 

According to Exopsychology theory  (and some success empirically)  the 'mind'  (or any of its 'programs') can be reprogrammed (away from averse programming of the state, society, family, self , circumstance, etc.  .... to make a healthy functioning 'social unit'  (in cases of treating 'criminals' , the 'maladjusted' or people with a disruptive problem) or for the 'psychonaut'  (in this case it is a connection with a 'chosen reality' -  chosen by them . '   

[Stosh]

I keep returning to this...

 

To claim an origin there must be a break... a before and after.  Where is that I keep wondering...

 

In a fluid, never static universe, where is the line of demarcation, the distinction point of human from cosmos, exactly?

 

In what capacity are we separate that we could have some identifiable independent origin?

 

Where to make the distinction between human and universe... flowing, fluid actionable body of human, fluid epoch of the same atoms which in my hands seemingly now and yet once within stars bursting in light and never a stopping point in between? 

 

The action of my thymus as intimately and unmistakably flowing still with the pulse of the supernovae.

Simple, effortless, like acorns settling on soil.

You can stop wondering , the proper view is that demarcations and groupings are arbitrary.. and by arbitrary I dont mean that one cant come up with reasons they like to divide apples from cactus , I just mean arbitrary in that you can indeed lump cactus with apples or decide not to -since the divisions are artificial just as you seem to be relating. In other words "agreed".

[Karl]

 

I think somewhere, the human bio-computer picked up an 'operational virus'. 

 

We have volition, free will, we have to choose what we ingest into our consciousness and what we tuck away in our sub consciousness. Thats our responsibility we cannot get a mental bug.

[Nungali]

I've never seen something like this Karl wants to advertise himself on my threads. Why I mentioned horoscope that we are connected to the soler system.For example one of our eye belong to Moon or Sun.Then our body belong to Saturn.

 

 

He's just a sort of self-advertising guy     

 

.....   actually, thats not a bad idea   ....

 

 

See my  threads  here    >

 

     http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-M6TjLhL1tBs/UYFQPAszG3I/AAAAAAAABFI/519g2WwLrTY/s1600/Rainbow-dyeing-01.jpg

 

 

When I read this ;  ' one of our eye belong to Moon or Sun'.  I thought an astrological critic would think it is rubbish.  But if one looks a bit deeper into it .....

 

... well,  if I look a bit deeper into it .... I see our 'eyes' as a reflection of our 'dual nature'  ; the Sun represents our consciousness and the Moon our unconscious and autonomous systems.  Most of us think our consciousness is running our lives and decisions ....   nah !    A big part of what drives us is unconscious, running on conditionings ..... totally unaware of it 98% of the time . 

 

Also we can bring this into consciousness a bit ;   we could say the eyes (symbolically) are two ways of looking at things; yin and yang. 

 

I may not take astrology literally, but  for me it provides a great psychic map, and has helped me to understand myself better psychologically  - the same as other 'maps' have  ( like the Qabbalistic one, Tarot, Exopsychology and a couple of others).

 

But as most of us know, they are an aid , a map, not the territory itself. 

 

I bet Karl has an interesting natal astrology !  

[Nungali]

The origin of Karl..........!

 

We might need to start a new thread for that one !  

 

-  What turned Karl  into  Karl ?    

[Stosh]

He's just a sort of self-advertising guy     

 

.....   actually, thats not a bad idea   ....

 

 

See my  threads  here    >

 

     http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-M6TjLhL1tBs/UYFQPAszG3I/AAAAAAAABFI/519g2WwLrTY/s1600/Rainbow-dyeing-01.jpg

 

 

When I read this ;  ' one of our eye belong to Moon or Sun'.  I thought an astrological critic would think it is rubbish.  But if one looks a bit deeper into it .....

 

... well,  if I look a bit deeper into it .... I see our 'eyes' as a reflection of our 'dual nature'  ; the Sun represents our consciousness and the Moon our unconscious and autonomous systems.  Most of us think our consciousness is running our lives and decisions ....   nah !    A big part of what drives us is unconscious, running on conditionings ..... totally unaware of it 98% of the time . 

 

Also we can bring this into consciousness a bit ;   we could say the eyes (symbolically) are two ways of looking at things; yin and yang. 

 

I may not take astrology literally, but  for me it provides a great psychic map, and has helped me to understand myself better psychologically  - the same as other 'maps' have  ( like the Qabbalistic one, Tarot, Exopsychology and a couple of others).

 

But as most of us know, they are an aid , a map, not the territory itself. 

 

I bet Karl has an interesting natal astrology !  

 its called a flow chart. 

[Karl]

According to Exopsychology theory  (and some success empirically)  the 'mind'  (or any of its 'programs') can be reprogrammed (away from averse programming of the state, society, family, self , circumstance, etc.  .... to make a healthy functioning 'social unit'  (in cases of treating 'criminals' , the 'maladjusted' or people with a disruptive problem) or for the 'psychonaut'  (in this case it is a connection with a 'chosen reality' -  chosen by them . '   

 

I don't like the sound of that 'reprogrammed' as it most definitely smacks of cybernetics. This is what the CIA were up to with MK Ultra and I can't imagine they would soon give up the idea of the perfect little robot.

[Nungali]

The egg came first.

 

and got him! 

 

 

 

 

 

[Karl]

We might need to start a new thread for that one !  

 

-  What turned Karl  into  Karl ?    

 

Sounds like it might be a bit yawn inducing. ;-)

[Nungali]

We have volition, free will, we have to choose what we ingest into our consciousness and what we tuck away in our sub consciousness. Thats our responsibility we cannot get a mental bug.

 

'we have to chose' ....   yet  ... 'we cannot get '    ?  

 

I dont get this at all .... then again, maybe I misunderstand it ....  from my experience many of us do not chose what is ingested into their consciousness , eg, I have worked with ex-torture victims / refugees ,  many of them didnt have much choice about what happened to them . 

 

 ...   Unless you are going to go all cosmic on me and invoke 'karma'   or 'the doctrine of impossible choices' .   

[Karl]

'we have to chose' ....   yet  ... 'we cannot get '    ?  

 

I dont get this at all .... then again, maybe I misunderstand it ....  from my experience many of us do not chose what is ingested into their consciousness , eg, I have worked with ex-torture victims / refugees ,  many of them didnt have much choice about what happened to them . 

 

 ...   Unless you are going to go all cosmic on me and invoke 'karma'   or 'the doctrine of impossible choices' .   

 

Those are damaged people Nungali. Victims of torture, abuse or serious trauma were not been free to choose, but that isn't the case with the rest of us.

 

You know I'm not going to invoke Karma.

 

I haven't got an answer for serious trauma victims. The effect is to divorce them from reality as you pointed out by suggesting they 'choose' reality, but they don't, they choose to try and evade reality.

[Nungali]

I don't like the sound of that 'reprogrammed' as it most definitely smacks of cybernetics. This is what the CIA were up to with MK Ultra and I can't imagine they would soon give up the idea of the perfect little robot.

 

Oh, thats just your conditioning  and reaction to the  descriptive word choice combined with a lack of familiarity with the subject matter .   One can easily make a misperception under those conditions.   If you have an aversion to something, even one that is embedded unconsciously, and you want to change that,  you can reprogram yourself. 

 

Any system can be misappropriated by society / individuals  to turn out biological robots  OR  used to help liberate the individual from its own unwanted conditionings and reactions. 

 

I mean ... we have  religion  ( the first in the above paragraph)   then we have 'magic'  - using 'religious technology'  to effect change in and around the self.   Or, we could say religion uses magical technology (or even call this 'technology' ;  highly emotive psychological stimulation ) .  

 

 

 

 

 

You can use a gun to hunt your food, or someone or the state could turn one against you  

 

 

Edited May 11, 2016 by Nungali

[Nungali]

Sounds like it might be a bit yawn inducing. ;-)

 

 

Junko could interrupt   it    and jazz it up a bit     .....    

[Nungali]

Those are damaged people Nungali. Victims of torture, abuse or serious trauma were not been free to choose, but that isn't the case with the rest of us. You know I'm not going to invoke Karma. I haven't got an answer for serious trauma victims. The effect is to divorce them from reality as you pointed out by suggesting they 'choose' reality, but they don't, they choose to try and evade reality.

 

It seems our understandings are further apart than I realised !  

 

My comments related to what I quoted from you , mostly this ;  " we have to choose what we ingest into our consciousness  "

 

My point is    - thats fine sprouting stuff like that, but it isnt a reality, many of us are not in a position at all to be able to choose at all what we ingest into our consciousness or unconsciousness,  we are victim of circumstances  combined with what we make out of or turn those circumstances into. 

 

Also, what I meant was,  these people were in that situation before anything happened to them,  they were not 'damaged' , they might have been innocently walking home from work and got caught caught up in a protest and mass arrested and sent to 're-education camp'.... or a dozen other situations i heard about .  

 

Perhaps after  their experience they were damaged and had extra disadvantage in freedom to be able to choose and filter experience that comes to them, like you suggest.  

[Stosh]

Im thinking that normally we do have some say about what gets emphasized or played down but ! Torture victims may be entirely a different story precisely because they dont have physical control or mental wherewithal to do the selecting-  they are simply overwhelmed or unprepared for the particular assault - which could be just as true for an elderly abused relative or any other person in a destructive situation,, even if its only minorly problematic.  We may often be our own worst enemy, but that doesnt mean someone cant be worse, or that we have no other enemies.

People who endure horrible situations usually have coping mechanisms that kick in , without them ... theyre probably as poorly off as everyone else that doesnt. 

Edited May 11, 2016 by Stosh

[Junko]

How many readers here know about horoscope??

Behaving like as if this thread is all yours.You know sometime I feel this forum is banch of problem people of psychological.If I say you are one of those you wouldn't admit,do you understand that?

Edited May 12, 2016 by Junko

[Nungali]

Im thinking that normally we do have some say about what gets emphasized or played down but ! Torture victims may be entirely a different story precisely because they dont have physical control or mental wherewithal to do the selecting-  they are simply overwhelmed or unprepared for the particular assault - which could be just as true for an elderly abused relative or any other person in a destructive situation,, even if its only minorly problematic.  We may often be our own worst enemy, but that doesnt mean someone cant be worse, or that we have no other enemies.

People who endure horrible situations usually have coping mechanisms that kick in , without them ... theyre probably as poorly off as everyone else that doesnt. 

 

Yes, I have seen some good coping mechanisms that allowed some of them to shine . Others were irreparably damaged . 

[Nungali]

How many readers here know about horoscope??

Behaving like as if this thread is all yours.You know sometime I feel this forum is banch of problem people of psychological.If I say you are one of those you wouldn't admit,do you understand that?

 

 

I know basically about horoscopes, I know mine and my version of it fairly in depth. 

 

I dont seem my behavior as 'owning this thread' . I see things on the forum more like a big party, with different conversations going on here and there, I will drift around and drop in and out.  I do tend to make 'provocative' statements and pose challenging questions for some.  I prefer deeper subjects than football or what is on tv. I liked the subject you bought up  - that's deep .

 

If  you have detected a psychological problem in me, tell me about ,   then we will see if I can admit or not. 

 

Just a minute, I will go and get you a nice drink first

 

[Karl]

It seems our understandings are further apart than I realised !  

 

My comments related to what I quoted from you , mostly this ;  " we have to choose what we ingest into our consciousness  "

 

My point is    - thats fine sprouting stuff like that, but it isnt a reality, many of us are not in a position at all to be able to choose at all what we ingest into our consciousness or unconsciousness,  we are victim of circumstances  combined with what we make out of or turn those circumstances into. 

 

Also, what I meant was,  these people were in that situation before anything happened to them,  they were not 'damaged' , they might have been innocently walking home from work and got caught caught up in a protest and mass arrested and sent to 're-education camp'.... or a dozen other situations i heard about .  

 

Perhaps after  their experience they were damaged and had extra disadvantage in freedom to be able to choose and filter experience that comes to them, like you suggest.  

 

There's a vast difference between being a torture victim and being free. It is incorrect to say we are "victims of circumstance" in the sense you mean it, which sounds like the malevolent universe theory. Instead, we are free to choose and must choose our lives as the standard or not to. It's only now, when I write this, that I really understand the immense mental change that's occurred in me over the last 2 years. I hold to the idea of a benevolent universe and by that, I do not mean the power of consciousness to manifest things. I mean that the universe isn't a monster and that we have the possibility of living peaceful, happy and productive lives, but that there is no guarantee we shall. We have to choose to try, or to see it as a hopeless task.

 

There is a point at which, if you hold to your ethics without compromise, that you must choose death over life. Once you are no longer free to achieve your values, to be productive and happy then you can only endure if you choose to. A torturer will effectively cut the link between mind and reality in order to break the victim-to deprive them of their values and attempt to install a new set of values that depend entirely on the torturer. It's impossible to hold to principles where freedom to do so is deliberately and systematically eliminated. How one survives intact in those circumstances I have no idea. I don't have any answers to recovery either, because, once that link between reality and mind has been severed violently then the mind may have gone permanently. I know that in situations such as German/Russian death camps, those that survived did so by clinging to reality through tiny, regular activities that gave them a sense of control-their freedom was never removed entirely, they held a portion of themselves inviolable and unbreakable. No one really knows if they have the mental toughness to cope in those situations and then one must choose at some point that dying is better than living-if life has no possibility of improvement.

 

I'm not a psychologist, I do not know how to impart an objectivist philosophy, other than to throw a book on a table and walk away from it-promising nothing and saying nothing. I can say "this is how I think" but not how anyone else shoukd think, we all have to choose. I don't believe any reprogramming can occur because we aren't robots. If a person has become reliant on their captor and is no longer independent, then they might swap the reliance onto a psychiatrist/therapist/councillor, but they remain dependent. Until they choose not to be dependent they will remain dependent, just as people choose to remain ignorant, or choose to evade will do so until they choose otherwise.

[Karl]

How many readers here know about horoscope??

Behaving like as if this thread is all yours.You know sometime I feel this forum is banch of problem people of psychological.If I say you are one of those you wouldn't admit,do you understand that?

 

I know horoscopes are mystic rubbish Junko, but if you believe in them that's fine by me.

 

Actually I think your thread has been very good, it has engaged several of us in very productive discussions and without any animosity. I think it's your calming affect working here because your words seem to have the effect of a 'state break'. Instead of people getting emotional, we are all having rational discourse. Well done to you, even if we aren't sticking exactly to your topic, thanks for allowing us to wander.