Internal vacuum/ diffusing chi/ MCO

[Wishbone]

Hi All,

 

For the last few years (and more intensively over the last six months) I have been trying to feel/guide chi around my body, mostly through microcosmic orbit practice in combination with dissolving type exercises as described in some of Bruce Frantzis' books. 

For quite a while now I have been feeling  strong sensation on whichever part of the body I direct attention toward or try to relax, this sensation can only be described as sexual/orgasmic energy, and is pleasant feeling but also feels like in a way that the feeling diffuses around the area I can feel it.

I have been moving this sensation around my upper body, which has formed my main practice, recently however I have felt that I can concentrate this feeling more directly when coordinating the attention with my breath, this in a way feels like more suction is being created within my body so I can 'suck' the energy up up spine, however it takes more effort and the feeling is not the same pleasant feeling as before (although not unpleasant). My questions are as follows:

 

1: Which of these two (if either) is the MCO circulation supposed to feel like?

2: Has anyone here tried both these methods/ do they sound familiar ?(if so I would be interested to talk to you)

3:What are the advantages/disadvantages of each?

4: Is the feeling of sexual/orgasmic energy infact just energy/chi leaking from the body in some way (i mean when felt in the upper body away from the sexual organs)

 

It is quite difficult to make my description of the various feelings clear, but hopefully someone will see some familiarity with what I have described.

 

Thanks for reading

[Bearded Dragon]

It's not supposed to feel like anything. You'll find it changes.

 

Bruce Frantzis mentions that there are many ways to do it, and there are different types of MCO that are slightly different. He mentioned that you can suck energy like you're sucking a straw, or you can use a contraction at the tailbone, etc. Personally I like just feeling for an opening or relaxation. If you wait for it then it tends to just happen. In any case it's not easy to say how to do it because it depends on where you're at, and it will change as you progress.

[Wishbone]

_{Ok, yes that sounds reasonable, the feeling will change as the practitioner progresses. I suppose the more important question is how do the various methods affect the body and what is the difference between them?}

 

_{Also where does Bruce Frantzis talk about sucking energy like a straw, in one of his books I presume?}

 

_Thanks

[Synchronic]

I am by no means an advance level practitioner, but when I was practising the most about 5 months ago or so, I could get that tingly/electric/orgasmic energy sensation both while lying down in darkness, timing my breathe with this sensation of tingly energy flowing upwards and down simultaniously, then moving opposite directions to both join up near the centre of my body.

 

I've also had similar experiences when doing horse stance + Zhan Zhuang standing practises outdoors, although this sensation was limited to my lower body, and I was unable to move it up while standing.

 

I would say keep at it with these practises while trying to keep it going for longer without loss of focus etc... but I'm no expert, Bruce Frantzis has some really great stuff, Chi Revolution is great if you haven't read that. Lot's of info and exercises. Best of luck!

[Wishbone]

Thanks for the replies so far, I think I am at the stage where I can feel various sensations in the body but have no idea what effect it is having on the body, I don't think I could easily claim to feel any great benefits so far (having been able to achieve this for a few years now), in terms of increased vitality, health, fitness or whatever. I'm interested to hear from anyone else who has got further along with this than I have (which still isn't very far).

[Spotless]

It is generally thought that the upper body area and bringing energy up up up up up up up is the correct direction for everything.

This is initial stage thinking and unfortunately it is typically the same thinking you leave this life with.

 

If you continue practice as you reach a somewhat advanced beginner stage - which often takes half a lifetime to get to - you begin to relinquish this "guiding willing doing" and begin to see that you don't really have a clue what you are doing but that the practice does "know what it is doing".

 

In the more advanced stages - or under the direction of a good teacher in a fairly intense practice - one will discover the whole body - particularly the mid torso and down to below the feet.

 

More and more the feet will become like your hands and your legs more and more like your arms - you breath into the lower Dan Tien. All else will follow this and it will continue to.

 

In the advanced stages you are rarely "directing energy" - energy is happening. It becomes possible to see that "directing energy" for the most part was "interrupting" and "splitting" and obstructive. However - playing with energy is helpful in the learning processes - particularly if we can get out of our heads and utilize our highest potential - our entire vehicle.

 

Qi Gong done well is not an out of body experience - it is the polar opposite - it will increasingly become embodiment - embodiment at a level never conceived of. And the center is not in the head.

 

The pivot point so to speak will be the lower Dan Tien (LDT) even when your crown blossoms and you are adorned with a headdress 12 feet high - the center will be in the LDT - the legs and feet will be the foundation roots of your wholeness.

 

The great core of your various energy systems will have merged and no part is in the least greater than another.

 

---

 

On another note - the association of Qi with "sexual/orgasmic" energies is wording that undercuts and confuses.

Insofar as how it feels at high (strong) levels - it has far less "heat" than one would associate with the wording above.

So much less that one would not associate the two if presented with each of them abruptly. One would appear more like fire and the other more like the force of a massive waterfall. In finer levels one would appear more like high stringed music while the other more like strong supple magnetic fields.

 

---

 

In your practice - Qi Gong - drop the directing of energies - doing so is essentially not practicing when you are practicing.

You are not doing calisthenics nor are you doing choreography - Qi Gong works on you - simply breath into the LDT in every move - be in the LDT. From there energies will transform and rise and expand as you are ready - if you take the role of choreographer in this energy process then you will diminish the practice to "playing with crayons, paper and glue". Of course this may be what you hoped for without knowing it - but make an effort to go beyond what you believe you think - and during practice drop the thinking and directing.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Spotless

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

Please don't do this kind of practice, it doesn't produce any positive long term results, and can lead to many negative side effects.

 

What you are describing is broadly defined in Daoism as "kong zhuan he che," or "empty cycling of the microcosmic orbit.

The point of the microcosmic orbit is not to simply more the intention around in it, it is to build Qi in the lower dantian to the point at which it spills over into the du and ren mai meridians.  If you practice seriously, it takes at least a year to open, but for most people it takes much longer.  Generally speaking, most Qi Gong methods focus on indirectly leading Qi to places where it affects and strengthens the microcosmic orbit, but methods which directly cycle the mind in the area without having first built up a buffer of qi are just wrong.

 

If you do blockage dissolving visualizations, such as feeling as though a mist is coming down from the top of your head, through your body, to your feet, you should take your time to feel each individual aspect of the exercise.  Don't try to force it to conform the MCO, but instead let the process be natural and let your body decide for itself how fast you make progress.

In my opinion, most people would be better served by frequently exercising the four limbs (running, walking fast, martial arts or whatever) while simply focusing on the lower dantian.  This would provide faster and better results in terms of post heaven qi circulation in the body than channelling the mind around the MCO ever could.

Real Qi Gong and real Nei Dan are very strong modalities, but they require huge amounts of patience and research.   Snake oil types who write books about how to do all kinds of crazy mind tricks are dishonest, poorly researched, and need to be criticised.

[dawei]

You said "last few years"...  Where are you going with it?  What is the goal?

 

Or in another way... are you pursuing or being lead somewhere?

[Wishbone]

You said "last few years"...  Where are you going with it?  What is the goal?

 

Or in another way... are you pursuing or being lead somewhere?

 

I don't think I have a specific goal in mind, it's more that I'm interested in finding out where this practice leads and what the benefits are...