Is this a "mini-satori" ?

[doc benway]

13 hours ago, cloud recluse said:

An update.

This is a diary entry from 2018;

" Approx 10:45pm 30/06/2018

A slight shift. Shallow, but strong...if that makes any sense.

Sitting in the shower , started looking for " the Victim" , the alleged 'One' who feels threatened enough to produce fear/anger.

There is no 'one'. There has never been a 'one'. Life has never required it , doing continues to be done.

No One .

No one passes through the Gateless Gate.

Had to stop myself laughing aloud . Its so fucking funny. All that effort for an impossible 'one' , an unacheivable solid knot. Not there , never has been. Cant die coz it was never alive , at least not by its understanding of life and death.

Half an hour later , Im still prone to chuckles and a degree of amused relief.

All I  have to think is "Look for the Victim" and I start grinning again.

Feeling physically wiped out though. "

In the light of this , the first experience in the park seems to be more of a mystical expansion of the self , an insight into what 'non-dual living'  would be like .

The more recent experience seems to be a dropping of the self-strategy all together , if only temporary.

Does anyone here appreciate that distinction ?

Regards , Cloud
 

So cool to see you revive this old thread with an update. Hard to believe it’s been 13 years!

 

I appreciate your distinction. My teacher once spoke a bit about this sort of thing and it really clicked for me. The question came up, why do people describe so many different experiences from spiritual practice? One person may speak of profound openness, another might describe a feeling of immortality, another great power or clairvoyance.... The explanation is that when we have a spiritual insight or breakthrough, what we are feeling is the release of whatever was blocking us. So we will feel the opposite of whatever the obstacle was. I’ve had a variety of non-dual and related experiences and, looking back at them, this made perfect sense to me.

 

PS - there’s nothing mini about these experiences

Edited March 6, 2020 by steve

[cloud recluse]

On 3/6/2020 at 11:01 AM, steve said:

So cool to see you revive this old thread with an update. Hard to believe it’s been 13 years!

 

I appreciate your distinction. My teacher once spoke a bit about this sort of thing and it really clicked for me. The question came up, why do people describe so many different experiences from spiritual practice? One person may speak of profound openness, another might describe a feeling of immortality, another great power or clairvoyance.... The explanation is that when we have a spiritual insight or breakthrough, what we are feeling is the release of whatever was blocking us. So we will feel the opposite of whatever the obstacle was. I’ve had a variety of non-dual and related experiences and, looking back at them, this made perfect sense to me.

 

PS - there’s nothing mini about these experiences

13 years , and  a great deal of chaos in between .  Sorry for taking so long to respond, but the last 5 months have been 'interesting'.

Thank you for this , ".. when we have a spiritual insight or breakthrough, what we are feeling is the release of whatever was blocking us. So we will feel the opposite of whatever the obstacle was".

I like this , it seems very sensible to me , and also kind of humbling.
 

Regards , Cloud 

[cloud recluse]

Currently Im trudging through a weird intermediary state , wherein part of me knows full well the futility of my ego-strategies , while another part of me engages them with what feels like a delusional sense of desperation .

In many ways those compulsions now hit more intensely than before, with the emotions driving them more raw, more brutally obvious , like some defence mechanisms have been disabled. At the same time , it doesnt take much to relax beyond them, when I choose to do so.

Imagine being on a wild rollercoaster, while feeling very chilled about it.

Regards, Cloud 

Edited July 7, 2021 by cloud recluse

[dwai]

On 7/6/2021 at 8:19 PM, cloud recluse said:

Currently Im trudging through a weird intermediary state , wherein part of me knows full well the futility of my ego-strategies , while another part of me engages them with what feels like a delusional sense of desperation .

In many ways those compulsions now hit more intensely than before, with the emotions driving them more raw, more brutally obvious , like some defence mechanisms have been disabled. At the same time , it doesnt take much to relax beyond them, when I choose to do so.

Imagine being on a wild rollercoaster, while feeling very chilled about it.

Regards, Cloud 

Can relate. Having realization doesn’t mean the dream has ended yet. Only one is lucid in the waking dream. It takes time to operate in the lucid dream…

[manitou]

 

 

The way I experience it, is that there is a glowing presence in my heart area - an area that feels contained and vast at the same time.  I see it as a warm, glowing void that is always with me.  It is me.  All the skin and bones and hair are superfluous to the presence.  And the presence in me is the very same as the presence in you.

 

And handling all the ramifications of that is the enlightened journey.

[cloud recluse]

On 7/9/2021 at 3:14 AM, manitou said:

 

 

The way I experience it, is that there is a glowing presence in my heart area - an area that feels contained and vast at the same time.  I see it as a warm, glowing void that is always with me.  It is me.  All the skin and bones and hair are superfluous to the presence.  And the presence in me is the very same as the presence in you.

 

And handling all the ramifications of that is the enlightened journey.

Well thats what started during the second glimpse ,  I briefly 'fell' in to the Heart for a short time, whereas the first glimpse was still kind of up in the Head , more or less. This is the most difficult part to express, a kind of 'luminosity' in the chest but not seen visually , more felt with a degree of feeling that was almost visual.

Now practice consists of remembering to relax when separative strategies re-emerge, and trying not to chase after that experience again.

  

Edited July 9, 2021 by cloud recluse

[stirling]

On 7/6/2021 at 6:19 PM, cloud recluse said:

Currently Im trudging through a weird intermediary state , wherein part of me knows full well the futility of my ego-strategies , while another part of me engages them with what feels like a delusional sense of desperation .

In many ways those compulsions now hit more intensely than before, with the emotions driving them more raw, more brutally obvious , like some defence mechanisms have been disabled. At the same time , it doesnt take much to relax beyond them, when I choose to do so.

Imagine being on a wild rollercoaster, while feeling very chilled about it.

Regards, Cloud 

 

If you don't mind me asking - do you have a meditation practice, or enlightened teacher? Both are a great help after insight for stabilizing it and dropping remaining attachments. 

[cloud recluse]

9 minutes ago, stirling said:

 

If you don't mind me asking - do you have a meditation practice, or enlightened teacher? Both are a great help after insight for stabilizing it and dropping remaining attachments. 

No, I dont mind. Perfectly reasonable question.

Because I dont have an enlightened teacher , or the support of any kind of Sangha , I struggle to maintain the necessary formal meditation practice in my current circumstances.
However I appreciate how those circumstances stimulate attachments , and try to relax and observe them as they arise instead of running after them(psychologically speaking ).

So lots of 'mini-meditation' throughout the day.....kinda.

[stirling]

1 hour ago, cloud recluse said:

No, I dont mind. Perfectly reasonable question.

Because I dont have an enlightened teacher , or the support of any kind of Sangha , I struggle to maintain the necessary formal meditation practice in my current circumstances.
However I appreciate how those circumstances stimulate attachments , and try to relax and observe them as they arise instead of running after them(psychologically speaking ).

So lots of 'mini-meditation' throughout the day.....kinda.

 

Certainly there is sangha here!   There is enlightened perspective here as well. Depending on where you are I might be able to recommend someone. Let me know. 

 

Your "practice" is of the same nature as most I have met at this level of insight - watching phenomena arise and pass.

 

Eventually meditation takes care of itself (Tibetan: non-meditation), though sitting is STILL very helpful... and should be effortless at this point.

 

Bows.

[Eduardo]

This week something similar happened to me, I was meditating as taught by Michael Lomax in his book of Stillness Movement when I was getting bored but generating a lot of chi in my lower dantien, I decided to continue for a few more minutes, suddenly all the boredom evaporated, in the prelude to enormous peace and happiness and suddenly my little ego was completely overcome by a kind of Higher Self, which had all the answers and its actions were completely ethical, luminous and irreprehensible, all desires were eliminated and I was completely convinced that I shouldn't tell anyone about the experience, rather try to stabilize myself in that state without my stupid little ego. I really died and stepped into a peace and light beyond what I could comprehend.
The truth is that the ego is transcended, and the true I, a super being, takes its place.
That state lasted for two days and I was practically hooked on meditation, which took me to jhanic borders, which I thought would be impossible to obtain except as a Bhikku or a Taoist monk.
It is strange to know that I am not that small ego, fallible and stupid, that super self, or rather I can stabilize myself in that luminous being which surpasses me by far.

I have practiced other types of meditation, and they really lead to other states, Transcendental Meditation seems to lead to an alpha state but a slight mental fatigue is generated by the repetition of the mantra.
Attention to breathing can stabilize the mind, but it has also made me strangely nervous at times.

I must say that I don't use drugs.
 

[dwai]

On 7/8/2021 at 12:14 PM, manitou said:

 

 

The way I experience it, is that there is a glowing presence in my heart area - an area that feels contained and vast at the same time.  I see it as a warm, glowing void that is always with me.  It is me.  All the skin and bones and hair are superfluous to the presence.  And the presence in me is the very same as the presence in you.

 

And handling all the ramifications of that is the enlightened journey.

Thought this brief talk might be germane to the topic.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[cloud recluse]

21 hours ago, stirling said:

 

Certainly there is sangha here!   There is enlightened perspective here as well. Depending on where you are I might be able to recommend someone. Let me know. 

 

Your "practice" is of the same nature as most I have met at this level of insight - watching phenomena arise and pass.

 

Eventually meditation takes care of itself (Tibetan: non-meditation), though sitting is STILL very helpful... and should be effortless at this point.

 

Bows.

Thank you. 

Currently stuck in Hobart, Tasmania , in an 'interesting' living situation.

Edited July 10, 2021 by cloud recluse

[manitou]

6 hours ago, dwai said:

Thought this brief talk might be germane to the topic.

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

Thank you so much, Dwai!  A wonderful talk!  He puts into words things that are right on the edge of not being able to say.

 

I was interested to hear him say that the I Am, or I Am Brahman consciousness was not a product of the kundalini yoga path.  I never practiced the kundalini yoga path, and yet I was struck with a K-awakening, and it has yielded the mystical results in third eye vision.  His observation is that the person on the kundalini yoga path is in search of mystical phenomena, and that the inner path of self awareness is the one that leads to the Consciousness.  It's interesting to me that these two have gotten totally fused in someone like me, someone who came up the path of self-inquiry that led to the Realization he speaks of.  And the kundalini was just thrown in for good measure, I guess. 

 

Either way, as he describes the gradual dawning of the Consciousness, even post-realization, is very well put into words.

[manitou]

On 7/9/2021 at 3:19 PM, cloud recluse said:

Well thats what started during the second glimpse ,  I briefly 'fell' in to the Heart for a short time, whereas the first glimpse was still kind of up in the Head , more or less. This is the most difficult part to express, a kind of 'luminosity' in the chest but not seen visually , more felt with a degree of feeling that was almost visual.

Now practice consists of remembering to relax when separative strategies re-emerge, and trying not to chase after that experience again.

  

 

 

That's how it started for me too.  Then, gradually, those times happen more often.  It doesn't take all that long after your 'realization that there was no victim' for the consciousness to start growing.  The most wonderful consciousness to have is to know that every eye you look into is the eye of god.  And I've got a much better relationship with my car....actually, I named her.  She has enough consciousness to retain her shape, so that's a good enough friend for me.

 

(where else but TDB's would you find someone in an 'interesting' living situation in Tasmania?)

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by manitou

[dwai]

1 hour ago, manitou said:

 

 

Thank you so much, Dwai!  A wonderful talk!  He puts into words things that are right on the edge of not being able to say.

 

I was interested to hear him say that the I Am, or I Am Brahman consciousness was not a product of the kundalini yoga path.  I never practiced the kundalini yoga path, and yet I was struck with a K-awakening, and it has yielded the mystical results in third eye vision.  His observation is that the person on the kundalini yoga path is in search of mystical phenomena, and that the inner path of self awareness is the one that leads to the Consciousness.  It's interesting to me that these two have gotten totally fused in someone like me, someone who came up the path of self-inquiry that led to the Realization he speaks of.  And the kundalini was just thrown in for good measure, I guess. 

The path of kundalini, meditation and energy will purify the mind. The mind purified, Self knowledge will be directly known, once the pointer is presented. A muddled mind cannot grasp the subtlety of Self knowledge. 

[doc benway]

21 hours ago, Eduardo said:

This week something similar happened to me, I was meditating as taught by Michael Lomax in his book of Stillness Movement when I was getting bored but generating a lot of chi in my lower dantien, I decided to continue for a few more minutes, suddenly all the boredom evaporated, in the prelude to enormous peace and happiness and suddenly my little ego was completely overcome by a kind of Higher Self, which had all the answers and its actions were completely ethical, luminous and irreprehensible, all desires were eliminated and I was completely convinced that I shouldn't tell anyone about the experience, rather try to stabilize myself in that state without my stupid little ego. I really died and stepped into a peace and light beyond what I could comprehend.
The truth is that the ego is transcended, and the true I, a super being, takes its place.
That state lasted for two days and I was practically hooked on meditation, which took me to jhanic borders, which I thought would be impossible to obtain except as a Bhikku or a Taoist monk.
It is strange to know that I am not that small ego, fallible and stupid, that super self, or rather I can stabilize myself in that luminous being which surpasses me by far.

I have practiced other types of meditation, and they really lead to other states, Transcendental Meditation seems to lead to an alpha state but a slight mental fatigue is generated by the repetition of the mantra.
Attention to breathing can stabilize the mind, but it has also made me strangely nervous at times.

I must say that I don't use drugs.
 

 

Wonderful to see more and more people waking up!!

Such a blessing and cause for Thanksgiving.

 

[cloud recluse]

1 hour ago, steve said:

 

Wonderful to see more and more people waking up!!

Such a blessing and cause for Thanksgiving.

 

While no language game can contain the Dao , some of them can certainly obscure it .

As the language game of our culture starts to change and loosen up, the initial View becomes more readily evident to more and more people , even if its only the preliminary glimpses I have had sofar.

Which is not surprising . It is the Always Already Present truth of our human situation . 

[stirling]

6 hours ago, cloud recluse said:

Thank you. 

Currently stuck in Hobart, Tasmania , in an 'interesting' living situation.

 

Wow! That might indeed be tricky. Let me see what I can do.

 

[cloud recluse]

2 hours ago, stirling said:

 

Wow! That might indeed be tricky. Let me see what I can do.

 

Thinking about it , any irl Teacher / Community relationship might  not be really feasible till my living situation stabilizes. I hate hooking up with a group somewhere , liking it, only to disappear over the horizon a week later.

Having said that , resurrecting this thread over the past few days and getting feedback from y'all is re-igniting my 'holy curiosity'.

Have spent the past few days breaking out of the 'winter snooze' mode of sleeping in later and later, so I can have an opportunity to practice before the daily chaos erupts. Woke up at 617am today , did not nap at all, progress looks promising. Its 5:11 pm and Im only just starting to feel dull.

Will most likely haver a crack at sitting tomorrow morning..

[stirling]

Mr. Recluse,

 

I would email these places and ask if you could meet with a senior teacher at each of them to see if you hit it off. Tell them as honestly and verbosely as you can what happened and ask if they would help you with next steps. See if you bond with them.

 

https://www.zenhobart.com

 

https://www.tashicholing.net

 

Generally speaking, it is my experience that there is at least one enlightened teacher in most metropolitan meditation centers. 

 

Let us know how sitting goes and if you need any help!

 

Bows.

Edited July 12, 2021 by stirling

[manitou]

On 7/10/2021 at 5:07 PM, dwai said:

The path of kundalini, meditation and energy will purify the mind. The mind purified, Self knowledge will be directly known, once the pointer is presented. A muddled mind cannot grasp the subtlety of Self knowledge. 

 

 

Are you sure?  My mind is becoming more muddled all the time as to mundane things.  But the ability to stop the mind is the thing that puts you in contact with the store of knowledge.  This is truly odd.  Like having to give up one to get the other.

[manitou]

On 7/11/2021 at 12:14 AM, cloud recluse said:

Thinking about it , any irl Teacher / Community relationship might  not be really feasible till my living situation stabilizes.

 

 

You could always spend this stabilization time figuring out why you manifested this....

[cloud recluse]

26 minutes ago, manitou said:

 

 

You could always spend this stabilization time figuring out why you manifested this....

Oh there is no mystery whatsoever as to how I got myself into this 

[cloud recluse]

1 hour ago, stirling said:

Mr. Recluse,

 

I would email these places and ask if you could meet with a senior teacher at each of them to see if you hit it off. Tell them as honestly and verbosely as you can what happened and ask if they would help you with next steps. See if you bond with them.

 

https://www.zenhobart.com

 

https://www.tashicholing.net

 

Generally speaking, it is my experience that there is at least one enlightened teacher in most metropolitan meditation centers. 

 

Let us know how sitting goes and if you need any help!

 

Bows.

Thank you.

And please, call me Cloud.

None of this 'Mister' business 

[dwai]

1 hour ago, manitou said:

 

 

Are you sure?  My mind is becoming more muddled all the time as to mundane things.  But the ability to stop the mind is the thing that puts you in contact with the store of knowledge.  This is truly odd.  Like having to give up one to get the other.

I wasn't suggesting one needs to be eschewed in order to get the other. I look at it from the perspective of "yoga/kundalini/Daoist meditation" is more like keeping the mirror clean. Once the mirror is clean, the true nature shines forth more directly in the limited mind. 

 

I used to think/say things like "the mind needs to be transcended to gain knowledge of the True Self/Nature", but really, I found out that the mind is the tool by which True Self operates in the localized context (body, mind, intellect, etc etc). So the mind is needed. What is needed is to drop the sense of identification (labeling - this is me, that is mine, and so on) -- so whatever is happening, continues to happen without any distortion/filters.

 

For the identification to drop, realization is needed. For realization to happen, the cobwebs and dust of conditioning in the mind must be cleared. Conditioning is cleared via these esoteric practices, meditation, etc. Once the mind is clear, the true nature is recognized directly. But, in my experience, I found that for full integration of the true nature, we need the pointers -- which is via the teachings such as Advaita Vedanta, Zen, etc.

 

And it is a continuous process, keep cleaning the dust off the mind, and let the unfiltered light of True Nature keep shining forth.