Is this a "mini-satori" ?

[Bindi]

31 minutes ago, dwai said:

I wasn't suggesting one needs to be eschewed in order to get the other. I look at it from the perspective of "yoga/kundalini/Daoist meditation" is more like keeping the mirror clean. Once the mirror is clean, the true nature shines forth more directly in the limited mind. 

 

From the Neiye, clean/clear the heart/mind, and the numinous spirit will come.

 

31 minutes ago, dwai said:

I used to think/say things like "the mind needs to be transcended to gain knowledge of the True Self/Nature", but really, I found out that the mind is the tool by which True Self operates in the localized context (body, mind, intellect, etc etc). So the mind is needed.
 

 

Exactly  

 

31 minutes ago, dwai said:

What is needed is to drop the sense of identification (labeling - this is me, that is mine, and so on) -- so whatever is happening, continues to happen without any distortion/filters.

 

For the identification to drop, realization is needed. For realization to happen, the cobwebs and dust of conditioning in the mind must be cleared. Conditioning is cleared via these esoteric practices, meditation, etc. Once the mind is clear, the true nature is recognized directly. But, in my experience, I found that for full integration of the true nature, we need the pointers -- which is via the teachings such as Advaita Vedanta, Zen, etc.

 

And it is a continuous process, keep cleaning the dust off the mind, and let the unfiltered light of True Nature keep shining forth. 

 

 

Agreed, like the full cup if the mind is full it has no room for the True Nature to fill it further. 

[dwai]

13 minutes ago, Bindi said:

Agreed, like the full cup if the mind is full it has no room for the True Nature to fill it further. 

Actually, the mind is also made up of THAT very True Nature. It is more a matter of where the mind's attention is. Conditioning diverts the mind towards objects (which are also appearances within THAT very True Nature). So, after realization, even if the mind goes towards objects, it is okay, because the identification with mind, body, objects has dropped. The conditioning doesn't take hold the way it used to before realization. How much we polish that mirror (clear the mind) is a matter of choice. 

 

In Vedanta, there are two categories of "self-realized". Those who has done the necessarily prerequisite work (called Krtopasaka) and those who haven't (called Akrtopasaka). The conditioning/dust gravitates towards the latter. And those are the ones who need to keep removing the dust (until they don't). 

[Bindi]

2 minutes ago, dwai said:

Actually, the mind is also made up of THAT very True Nature. It is more a matter of where the mind's attention is. Conditioning diverts the mind towards objects (which are also appearances within THAT very True Nature). So, after realization, even if the mind goes towards objects, it is okay, because the identification with mind, body, objects has dropped. The conditioning doesn't take hold the way it used to before realization. How much we polish that mirror (clear the mind) is a matter of choice. 

 

In Vedanta, there are two categories of "self-realized". Those who has done the necessarily prerequisite work (called Krtopasaka) and those who haven't (called Akrtopasaka). The conditioning/dust gravitates towards the latter. And those are the ones who need to keep removing the dust (until they don't). 

I see it as the 3 channels, the central is equivalent to the True Nature, and it ‘nourishes’ the two side channels which are mental and emotional, at least to the extent that they are clear. I’m not personally drawn to the Vedantic explanation, I feel it leaves something visceral undone. 
 

 

[manitou]

On 7/12/2021 at 2:49 PM, dwai said:

I wasn't suggesting one needs to be eschewed in order to get the other. I look at it from the perspective of "yoga/kundalini/Daoist meditation" is more like keeping the mirror clean. Once the mirror is clean, the true nature shines forth more directly in the limited mind. 

 

I used to think/say things like "the mind needs to be transcended to gain knowledge of the True Self/Nature", but really, I found out that the mind is the tool by which True Self operates in the localized context (body, mind, intellect, etc etc). So the mind is needed. What is needed is to drop the sense of identification (labeling - this is me, that is mine, and so on) -- so whatever is happening, continues to happen without any distortion/filters.

 

For the identification to drop, realization is needed. For realization to happen, the cobwebs and dust of conditioning in the mind must be cleared. Conditioning is cleared via these esoteric practices, meditation, etc. Once the mind is clear, the true nature is recognized directly. But, in my experience, I found that for full integration of the true nature, we need the pointers -- which is via the teachings such as Advaita Vedanta, Zen, etc.

 

And it is a continuous process, keep cleaning the dust off the mind, and let the unfiltered light of True Nature keep shining forth. 

 

 

 

 

I couldn't agree more.  beautifully said, IMO.  Yes, the mind is needed.  Memory?  Not so much