Jox Posted March 25, 2016 Just cuorious ... pros and cons ... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiverSnake Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) Trees and plants are great teachers, friends and qigong partners. Practice with them daily. As for the bit about avoiding gurus...use your common sense and do your research beforehand. Edited March 25, 2016 by OldChi 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jox Posted March 25, 2016 I thought about psychedelic plants ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiverSnake Posted March 25, 2016 (edited) Useful thread on substances: http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/32597-opinion-on-mind-altering-substances/?hl=drugs Valuable thread on training with trees/plant for cultivation purposes: http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/34733-sm-importance-of-tree-gong/?hl=%2Btree+%2Bgong Edited March 25, 2016 by OldChi 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted March 25, 2016 I suggest to take everything as your teacher. There is no difference between following the teachings of a guru and following the teachings of a plant. Both must be approached in a similar fashion - with an appropriate degree of caution and respect and a mind that questions from a place of openness and spaciousness. Ultimately the teacher is the same - our pristine condition, the nature of that mind that is asking. Only its manifestation changes based on our needs and proclivities. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted March 25, 2016 In terms of plant spirit medicine (psychedelic as well as simply meditation with the regular plants), the plants may be the healers and teachers in its practice, but it's our insight through which they communicate to us. In visions from daydreams, dreams at night, sudden knowing of what to do, songs that you're humming out of the blue, etc. So we could go beyond plants, by learning with all things, through our insight-knowing. We might get premonitions in dreams about the day to come, or something important to do. So perhaps the best thing is paying attention to the symbols of dreams, such as by keeping a dream journal, and living life less busily so that we can have time to "hear" this stuff and process it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonkrankenhaus Posted March 25, 2016 Humanity is the descendent of plants. Vegetal life preceeded animal life. In my opinion, the use of strong psychedelic plants in cultivation is too severe and too complicating for most people. People impressed by the profound effect of strong substances are actually showing this. And some will add so much level of difficulty with this that important true and subtle results are missed. The place to start with this concept is actually "food". Master that completely before launching into so strong "psychedelics". -VonKrankenhaus 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gendao Posted March 25, 2016 Communing with and learning to truly understand plants can probably benefit everyone in general... But those who are particularly drawn to plants and trees, I suspect have blockages in their wood elements (liver/gallbladder) that cause them to subconsciously seek out that "totem element" (as opposed to water, fire, etc). If this is the case, then that can be a good sign of what organs to work on clearing within oneself. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted March 25, 2016 Communing with and learning to truly understand plants can probably benefit everyone in general... But those who are particularly drawn to plants and trees, I suspect have blockages in their wood elements (liver/gallbladder) that cause them to subconsciously seek out that "totem element" (as opposed to water, fire, etc). If this is the case, then that can be a good sign of what organs to work on clearing within oneself. Could also be a deficiency of the Wood element, because maybe it's like with the corresponding 5 element flavors - we crave what we're deficient in. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gendao Posted March 25, 2016 Could also be a deficiency of the Wood element, because maybe it's like with the corresponding 5 element flavors - we crave what we're deficient in. Yea that's what I meant - some imbalance in the element (which is usually, if not always, caused by some traumatic blockage). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jox Posted March 25, 2016 Thank you guys for your feedback so far ... Have anyone actually experimented with magic mushrooms or similar plants, so he/she had first hand experience? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted March 25, 2016 Thank you guys for your feedback so far ... Have anyone actually experimented with magic mushrooms or similar plants, so he/she had first hand experience? Only with smoking salvia divinorum. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonkrankenhaus Posted March 25, 2016 The thing is that people who have not studied and trained in traditional, or at least, some fairly complete manner - can be impressed by this stuff in ways that can obscure true development of their subsequent or eventual trainings. And people who have studied and trained extensively can find them off-point and unnecessary. One question arises: What is it that people would like to achieve using "magic mushrooms or similar plants"? Qi cultivation? Psychic experiences? Random experiences? -VonKrankenhaus Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted March 25, 2016 Thank you guys for your feedback so far ... Have anyone actually experimented with magic mushrooms or similar plants, so he/she had first hand experience? yes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted March 25, 2016 Here is the thing about the use of drugs..........at least initially, your spiritual experiences are supposed to manifest themselves when your mind has reached to certain realization stage. That what makes your experiences possible and it would carry onto your next life. When you use drugs, you only manage to reproduce the experiences but don't have the mind cultivation to support them. The experiences themselves do not make you enlightened. It has to come from your own mind. Once the drugs are no longer capable to produce the experiences, your mind is no different than before...you would soon realize. FYI, I don't do drugs. I take herbal supplements like Rhodia Rosa...nothing meant to alter my consciousness. I have enough cultivation experiences to write a book about them....hahahahaha... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Songtsan Posted March 25, 2016 I've done most of the major psychedelics....only lacking in mescalin, ibogaine, datura, and true Ayahuasca (I did psuedo Ayahuasca DMT + harmala) of the main ones.... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted March 25, 2016 Thank you guys for your feedback so far ... Have anyone actually experimented with magic mushrooms or similar plants, so he/she had first hand experience? Yes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted March 26, 2016 Here is the thing about the use of drugs..........at least initially, your spiritual experiences are supposed to manifest themselves when your mind has reached to certain realization stage. Only if you suppose 'states of consciousness' are not chemically triggered . That what makes your experiences possible and it would carry onto your next life. it would ? When you use drugs, you only manage to reproduce the experiences but don't have the mind cultivation to support them. Psycho active drugs are produced internally and naturally by some processes and practices. Do you think altering your breathing patterns changes the chemical composition in the bloodstream and brain and organs or it creates 'mind cultivation' and then 'mind cultivation' causes the change in perception ? The experiences themselves do not make you enlightened. It has to come from your own mind. They can make you 'enlightened ' ... any experience can, drug or otherwise. Once the drugs are no longer capable to produce the experiences, your mind is no different than before...you would soon realize. And if you yourself ever had that experience, you would realise that isnt true . That is the whole point of a strong psychedelic experience ! FYI, I don't do drugs. Obviously .... I take herbal supplements like Rhodia Rosa...nothing meant to alter my consciousness. I have enough cultivation experiences to write a book about them....hahahahaha... Even a depletion of some vitamins will alter your consciousness. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MooNiNite Posted March 26, 2016 LSD can wake a person up. Funny thing is a lot of gurus use plants! Plants have been used as initiation/awakening ceremonies since the beginning of time!! 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted March 26, 2016 (edited) Nungali, are you defending the use of drugs??? I said it again. It is your mind cultivation that enables you to experience various states of consciousness. This will create good karma and merit to your next life. Do you know why certain individuals seem to have the ability to achieve more in their cultivation? As many Chi Gong and Chan masters have pointed out throughout the ages, it is their good karma from their past lives which enable them to achieve more and quicker in their mind cultivation process. That's why what you do now in your cultivation would have a huge impact on your next life. Gee, equating vitamins to psychedelic drugs??? Nice... Seriously, I have my kundalini energy rising when I was 18, the full blown kind and lasted for 3 weeks each time during my meditation. I was your typical American teen...I drink coffee, sodas, and eating a balanced diets. If stuff I ate containing chemicals allowing me to experience the kundalini energy rising, a lot of American teens would have their full blown kundalini energy rising experiences...LOL LOL.. So as many of you here. Of course that's not the case. Otherwise, you won't be using them to induce your awakening. You can not argue for the use of psychedelic drugs as normal as using vitamins. If that's the case, you would be using vitamins for your cultivation instead of the psychedelic drugs. Edited March 26, 2016 by ChiForce Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiForce Posted March 26, 2016 Can anyone name a Taoist text or some ancient herbal remedies using specific plants to realize the Tao??? In India? Or the great Buddha himself? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Posted March 26, 2016 The "great" Buddha himself was using plants. He was eating figs and dates, which coincidentally are high in tryptophan which is the precursor of serotonine. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted March 26, 2016 (edited) Nungali, are you defending the use of drugs??? No, I would not put it that way, or so 'suggestively' , I was trying to offer some info from someone who was not writing about what they never experienced. I said it again. It is your mind cultivation that enables you to experience various states of consciousness. You can say it as much as you want . Constant assertion doesnt make points of convincing in my discussions. This will create good karma and merit to your next life. Good karma ? You better explain what you mean by that .... and 'mind cultivation' ... and how such mind cultivation 'enables' one to 'experience various stages of consciousness ' ..... various stages of consciousness can be achieved many ways and need not be restricted to your 'mind cultivation' ... whatever that is Do you know why certain individuals seem to have the ability to achieve more in their cultivation? As many Chi Gong and Chan masters have pointed out throughout the ages, it is their good karma from their past lives which enable them to achieve more and quicker in their mind cultivation process. That's why what you do now in your cultivation would have a huge impact on your next life. That is a postulation that cant really be demonstrated . Besides any good or bad associated with 'karma' is a socio-cultural localised mores and taboos system. ... unless you are going to play some religious card here . Gee, equating vitamins to psychedelic drugs??? Nice... I see , you are going to behave like that are you ? Or is it a case of lack of reading comprehension ? I said lack of vitamins can change consciousness ... not vitamins equate to psychedelic drugs . You are trying to twist things ..... nice ! Seriously, I have my kundalini energy rising when I was 18, the full blown kind and lasted for 3 weeks each time during my meditation. I was your typical American teen...I drink coffee, sodas, and eating a balanced diets. If stuff I ate containing chemicals allowing me to experience the kundalini energy rising, a lot of American teens would have their full blown kundalini energy rising experiences...LOL LOL.. So as many of you here. Good for you ... great story .... Mr LOL LOL . Also I dont get your grammar /syntax , eg. " So as many of you here. " tacked onto the end of that . What does that mean ? .... as many of you here have ? and the stuff you wrote before it . I am not American nor experienced 'American teen ' . Of course that's not the case. Otherwise, you won't be using them to induce your awakening. You can not argue for the use of psychedelic drugs as normal as using vitamins. I see . you made that up ... and now you are going to run with it ... hmmmm ? If that's the case, you would be using vitamins for your cultivation instead of the psychedelic drugs. Oh. smart move there ... that 'got me' Dude ! The vitamin comment was in relation to your comment about Rhodia rosa ... Are you saying Rhodia rosa is like psychedelic drugs !!! Surely you not advocating drug usage !!!!!! (annoying isnt it ? ) Ho hum ... another rave against me starting from a wrong postulation and a misquote of what I said . Is this a past time for some people ? Edited March 26, 2016 by Nungali 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted March 26, 2016 The "great" Buddha himself was using plants. He was eating figs and dates, which coincidentally are high in tryptophan which is the precursor of serotonine. Oooo yeah Release Sarah Tonin ! ..... she is innocent ! I know it ! 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bud Jetsun Posted March 26, 2016 The thing is that people who have not studied and trained in traditional, or at least, some fairly complete manner - can be impressed by this stuff in ways that can obscure true development of their subsequent or eventual trainings. And people who have studied and trained extensively can find them off-point and unnecessary. One question arises: What is it that people would like to achieve using "magic mushrooms or similar plants"? Qi cultivation? Psychic experiences? Random experiences? -VonKrankenhaus Before the entheogen experience, I had never considered meditation, introspection, or seeking awareness of Being. It's true it's not technically required for anything, nor is drawing even one more breath. The only currency I place value on is a richness of human experience, but it's true none of them are needed. Everything every being needs they already have at this moment, the trick is choosing to appreciate this inherent aspect. No plant or guru can choose to complete internal realization for another being. Either and/or none may help to the extent the user makes of the phenomena, be it from hearing words of wisdom, or taking a plant assisted journey into the nature of mind, or years of meditation in a cave. Like any method, plants can only offer what one chooses to permit the experience to offer. The difference with plants unlike most other options is the commitment to the lesson with respect to it not being an option to simply get up and walk away if it becomes uncomfortable to continue. A human teacher may be as merciful or merciless as they choose, and will be as effective as the pupil enables them to be through choosing to receive the wisdom. A plants teaching style is merciless, indifferent, confounding, and often takes weeks or months to fully translate/integrate the experience. The teacher that works best is up to the pupils mindful choice to listen/appreciate/integrate the lesson. Unlimited Love, -Bud Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
