Strength and Vitality: A West vs. East view

[HoldorFold]

Could you elaborate on your bad experiences with Clyman's practices?

 

Sure, bear in mind it's just the condensing breathing practice I've done.

 

A few years ago, I used to do condensing breathing regularly, every day. It had very tangible results on my sense of power and vitality. Just practicing for a couple of minutes would make me feel a lot more solid and powerful and give me a lot of energy. 

 

I stopped doing it for a couple of years since I was undergoing kundalini symptoms, not related to condensing breathing but related to other practices I was doing and so I stopped almost all energy work bar grounding exercises. 

 

Having taken up qigong again, I decided to start back on condensing breathing. Initial results were again instant vitality, power and feeling very solid. The difference is this time I felt a kind of dark energy and while I was feeling more powerful, there was a kind of sinister quality to it. After practicing for a couple of days, one night I had images of a large horned demonic entity in my vision which was very persistent and very hard to dissolve. I can only attribute this to condensing some kind of negativity or blockage that prior to this was more diffuse but I was now given more solidity by condensing it. 

 

I figured that this had something to do with condensing qi in the upper-body, since I felt that my heart area was becoming more heavy and dense after condensing which didn't seem right. So I decided to only condense from the waist down after that. The results improved and I didn't have the negative psychological effects as when I was condensing in the upper body, however I still noticed some unusual etheric manifestations as I was condensing, so I decided to not continue with the practice.

 

I'm not sure if the difference between my positive results and negative results is due to changes I've undergone during kundalini episode or if it was always the same but now I am just more sensitive and aware of the effects it produces.

[Andrei]

Is the bigu diet supposed to be a rejection of societal staples, or have some metaphysical ramifications, or it supposed to promote health as thats usually defined,,? What grains are the original five, should others be considered likewise and are to be avoided as well, and just when did this diet become traditional to anyone since obviously ,lots of people still eat the grains quite readily.,,? Wikipedia strikes me as rather confused about this , making it sound more like the grains were to be promoted as healthy fare. Whats the view of followers of this regime?

 

Bigu diet in modern terms is the ketogenic diet, basically eliminate all carbs from diet. Why? because the carbs diet feeds Candida and other fungi that thrives in our intestines. Candida feeds the bacteria in our intestines and the bacteria spectrum influences the hormonal and immune reaction which triggers a lot of other physical and psychological issues. In the ancient texts they said that "if you eat worms you'll get invaded by worms or demons" that referring to noodles  made of rice or soy or whatever other grains they were using. Back in the days they had no concept of microorganisms like fungi and bacteria. The thing is that even in the Neijing Suwen the grains are considered nourishing which they are because they provide fast energy, and they are fulfilling but that was in a time when most of the population was doing hard labor in the fields or manufacturing, nowadays the people do physical jobs less and less. A balanced carbs diet is good for someone who has a lot of physical activity, goes to gym or run, swim, bike in which case they consume all the carbs ingested, but if carbs remains not absorbed in the guts then you have bacteria overgrowth and all that bad stuff that comes with it.

[dwai]

Sure, bear in mind it's just the condensing breathing practice I've done.

 

A few years ago, I used to do condensing breathing regularly, every day. It had very tangible results on my sense of power and vitality. Just practicing for a couple of minutes would make me feel a lot more solid and powerful and give me a lot of energy. 

 

I stopped doing it for a couple of years since I was undergoing kundalini symptoms, not related to condensing breathing but related to other practices I was doing and so I stopped almost all energy work bar grounding exercises. 

 

Having taken up qigong again, I decided to start back on condensing breathing. Initial results were again instant vitality, power and feeling very solid. The difference is this time I felt a kind of dark energy and while I was feeling more powerful, there was a kind of sinister quality to it. After practicing for a couple of days, one night I had images of a large horned demonic entity in my vision which was very persistent and very hard to dissolve. I can only attribute this to condensing some kind of negativity or blockage that prior to this was more diffuse but I was now given more solidity by condensing it. 

 

I figured that this had something to do with condensing qi in the upper-body, since I felt that my heart area was becoming more heavy and dense after condensing which didn't seem right. So I decided to only condense from the waist down after that. The results improved and I didn't have the negative psychological effects as when I was condensing in the upper body, however I still noticed some unusual etheric manifestations as I was condensing, so I decided to not continue with the practice.

 

I'm not sure if the difference between my positive results and negative results is due to changes I've undergone during kundalini episode or if it was always the same but now I am just more sensitive and aware of the effects it produces.

I find everything about Gary Clyman suspect. He is not recognized by Master Liao as having been one of this students. He was Ron Hoffman's student who essentially kicked him out of the school.

 

He teaches condensing breathing to beginners and its a recipe for disaster. I'm not saying HoldorFold is a novice or was one when he practiced CB. However, the fact is that in Temple style, from which Clyman concocts his system, Condensing breathing is taught at the end of the 4th term. Assuming each term takes a minimum of 1 year to learn, one would have to practice the basic forms and practices of temple style (not the same as running through a long form) before even venturing into CB.

 

Even then, CB needs to be done when one is completely clean, no negative emotions, no health issues etc. It will cause what HoldorFold experienced or worse (cancer, mental illness) if not practiced under the guidance of a qualified teacher. It is very powerful but like all powerful things, it will need proper guidance and feedback from a teacher.

 

I always do another type of condensing after doing condensing breathing. Condensing Breathing condenses Qi into Jin that is stored in the bone marrow. We should also do shen condensing into our emptiness/central channel long with it. My Sifu says if you don't do that, you will go out of balance.

 

In any case, when one practices the internal martial arts properly, the Qi should naturally start condensing into the marrow, and then shen into the emptiness. 

 

I remember there was another gentleman on this board who was very gungho about Condensing breathing and I had warned him from following Clyman or venturing into CB without proper hands on guidance and sufficient experience. I was happy to know he switched to something that he has guidance for since then.

[HoldorFold]

I find everything about Gary Clyman suspect. He is not recognized by Master Liao as having been one of this students. He was Ron Hoffman's student who essentially kicked him out of the school.

 

He teaches condensing breathing to beginners and its a recipe for disaster. I'm not saying HoldorFold is a novice or was one when he practiced CB. However, the fact is that in Temple style, from which Clyman concocts his system, Condensing breathing is taught at the end of the 4th term. Assuming each term takes a minimum of 1 year to learn, one would have to practice the basic forms and practices of temple style (not the same as running through a long form) before even venturing into CB.

 

Even then, CB needs to be done when one is completely clean, no negative emotions, no health issues etc. It will cause what HoldorFold experienced or worse (cancer, mental illness) if not practiced under the guidance of a qualified teacher. It is very powerful but like all powerful things, it will need proper guidance and feedback from a teacher.

 

I always do another type of condensing after doing condensing breathing. Condensing Breathing condenses Qi into Jin that is stored in the bone marrow. We should also do shen condensing into our emptiness/central channel long with it. My Sifu says if you don't do that, you will go out of balance.

 

In any case, when one practices the internal martial arts properly, the Qi should naturally start condensing into the marrow, and then shen into the emptiness. 

 

I remember there was another gentleman on this board who was very gungho about Condensing breathing and I had warned him from following Clyman or venturing into CB without proper hands on guidance and sufficient experience. I was happy to know he switched to something that he has guidance for since then.

 

While I was practicing I did some research and came across someone who was a student of Clyman's who claims he was taught that the condensing refines energies in the marrow and so he was told that it doesn't matter what kind of energy you are condensing. That kept me pushing through despite the warning signs, but in the end my experience ran contrary to that idea.

 

When I was practicing before the kundalini experiences, I experienced all the benefits but also in retrospect I believe it was making me more hot-headed/angry in daily life. I think now being much more sensitive to energy, this time around I was perceiving the blockages and issues that were probably being condensed before but were hidden.

 

Just goes to show you can't shortcut your way to these higher level exercises. What's ironic is that it's Clyman's foundational exercise which he teaches first, so I wonder how many of his students are condensing trouble for themselves later down the line.

 

It's a shame because it really was the most powerful technique I've come across to build a lot of jing which is a primary interest of mine.

 

 

[dwai]

While I was practicing I did some research and came across someone who was a student of Clyman's who claims he was taught that the condensing refines energies in the marrow and so he was told that it doesn't matter what kind of energy you are condensing. That kept me pushing through despite the warning signs, but in the end my experience ran contrary to that idea.

 

When I was practicing before the kundalini experiences, I experienced all the benefits but also in retrospect I believe it was making me more hot-headed/angry in daily life. I think now being much more sensitive to energy, this time around I was perceiving the blockages and issues that were probably being condensed before but were hidden.

 

Just goes to show you can't shortcut your way to these higher level exercises. What's ironic is that it's Clyman's foundational exercise which he teaches first, so I wonder how many of his students are condensing trouble for themselves later down the line.

 

It's a shame because it really was the most powerful technique I've come across to build a lot of jing which is a primary interest of mine.

 

 

From condensing one should go on to develop emptiness and cultivate Shen. If we focus on Jing we are limiting ourselves. It's like going from steam to diesel power. Whereas we should be aiming for solar and even more subtle zero point power.

[HoldorFold]

From condensing one should go on to develop emptiness and cultivate Shen. If we focus on Jing we are limiting ourselves. It's like going from steam to diesel power. Whereas we should be aiming for solar and even more subtle zero point power.

 

This is true, although I used to (foolishly) do practices from the age of 18 which involved very forcibly raising energy up the spine, this opened channels which perpetuated burning of lower energies e.g. jing / kidney-essence. The result was early onset of a lot of psychic phenomena but also symptoms of jing depletion even while practicing retention. So while many are concerned with sublimating jing, in my 20's I was mainly concerned with the reverse process.

 

From doing lot of work on my feet and legs over 10 years, I've managed to increase the fuel input into my system where now have the vitality of before I burned myself out and have for the past couple of years been focusing more on Shen type activities. My focus on jing primarily because I tend to do a lot of mundane things like (low-level) bodybuilding, working on my own business, socialising etc. and I find high levels of jing very useful for these activities.

[thelerner]

On 3/31/2016 at 8:21 PM, thelerner said:

In your opinion, what do the cultures do right?   What do they get wrong? 

 

As usual what gives the best bang for the buck? 

What is the recipe?   A secret ingredient, or simple clean living? 

 

 

errata 

What makes Chinatown areas so fascinating to me are all the herb shops.   Walking past the bins of herbs, common and rare.  Within 5 feet, jujubes for $5 a pound, near $800 ginseng, close to sea horses, separated out male and female.    

 

Is the east masters of prevention and west obsessed with cutting and pills for extreme conditions?

bump

[Spotless]

Many politically difficult topics built into this - the DNA aspect is certainly hard to swallow but it is a solid platform of discussion none the less. 

 

But all peculilarities aside - 

 

dissipation

imbalance 

and 

opening / enhancing (within balance)

 

these appear to be the essence of the issues regarding Strenght and Vitality.

 

Agitation / Grasping / Adhering - dissipate ones strength and vitality.

Internal arts reduce these proclivities.

 

Imbalance - whoever or whatever is to blame or not blame.

Balancing arts including diets (physical and spiritual) and medical/medicinal of all varieties.

 

Opening / Enhancing (within balance)

Internal Arts, Simple exercise, Western Medical, Eastern Medical, Herbal 

 

Obviously there is overlap everywhere in the above but simplified:

Some individuals are healthy and balanced and yet far from potentials - inner arts may open new vistas and exercise may bring revitalization.

Some individuals have great strength and vitality but imbalance and willfulness (agitation/grasping/adhereing) dissipate and misdirect them - often into self abuse or the abuse of others. Internal arts, balancing exercises - intentional suffering (self facing inner work) are required.

Many other scenarios can be offered up and you can fill in the blanks - but it appears some problems are more Yin based and some more yang based. Whether from DNA or current life cultural or both - and for the most part we are looking at: weak flow, constricted flow and overflow. Anemic - Obstructed - Inflamed.

 

If we look at these elements as inclusive of what might otherwise be assumed to be exclusive - one can see that being in harmony and balance does not necessarily mean being strong and vital - and being strong and vital does not necessarily mean being balanced or in harmony.

 

Some candles burn too slowly and will drown in their own wax. Some candles burn bright and fast and die out long before their expected life. Some candles sputter and crank from impurities in their wax. Some candles need more oxygen. Some candles need protection from wind and rain.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Spotless