Is Nirvikalpa Samadhi actually a dead end?

[Bindi]

Is Nirvikalpa Samadhi actually the Height of Divine Consciousness or is it in fact just an ingenious spiritual trap and a dead end?

 

From Samadhi: The Height of Divine Consciousness

In nirvikalpa samadhi there is no mind; there is only infinite peace and bliss. There nature's dance stops, and the knower and the known become one. There you enjoy a supremely divine, all-pervading, self-amorous ecstasy. You become the object of enjoyment, you become the enjoyer and you become the enjoyment itself.

When you enter into nirvikalpa samadhi, the first thing you feel is that your heart is larger than the universe itself. Ordinarily you see the world around you, and the universe seems infinitely larger than you are. But this is because the world and the universe are perceived by the limited mind. When you are in nirvikalpa samadhi, you see the universe as a tiny dot inside your vast heart.

In nirvikalpa samadhi there is infinite bliss. Bliss is a vague word to most people. They hear that there is something called bliss, and some people say that they have experienced it, but most individuals have no firsthand knowledge of it. When you enter into nirvikalpa samadhi, however, you not only feel bliss, but actually grow into that bliss.

The third thing you feel in nirvikalpa samadhi is power. All the power of all the occultists put together is nothing compared with the power you have in nirvikalpa samadhi. But the power that you can take from samadhi to utilise on earth is infinitesimal compared with the entirety.

Nirvikalpa samadhi is the highest samadhi that most realised spiritual Masters attain. It lasts for a few hours or a few days, and then one has to come down. When one comes down, what happens? Very often one forgets his own name and age; one cannot speak or think properly. But through continued practice, gradually one becomes able to come down from nirvikalpa samadhi and immediately function in a normal way. Generally, when one enters into nirvikalpa samadhi, one does not want to come back into the world again. If one stays there for eighteen or twenty-one days, there is every possibility that the soul will leave the body for good. There were spiritual Masters in the hoary past who attained nirvikalpa samadhi and did not come down. They attained their highest samadhi, but found it impossible to enter into the world atmosphere again and work like human beings. One cannot operate in the world while in that state of consciousness; it is simply impossible. But there is a divine dispensation. If the Supreme wants a particular soul to work here on earth, even after twenty-one or twenty-two days, the Supreme can take that individual into was another channel of dynamic, divine consciousness and have him return to the earth-plane to act.

http://www.srichinmoy.org/spirituality/concentration_meditation_contemplation/samadhi

 

 "War Nirvikalpa Samadhi - what is it good for?" Elaine

 

 

 

 

[3bob]

speculation is only good for awhile...

[Kar3n]

Swami Vivekananda's experience of Nirvikalpa Samadhi 

"When he presented himself to the Master, the latter said, looking deep into his eyes, Now then, Mother has shown you everything. Just as a treasure is locked up in a box, so will this realization you have just had be locked up and the key shall remain with me. You have work to do."

 

Seems to to me that this state can be reached before Buddhahood, and one should be careful not to attach to it, but to rather use the realizations to express bodhicitta.

[3bob]

"Buddhahood" is also speculation.....best not to be attached to its idea either

 

Neti, neti

Edited April 4, 2016 by 3bob

[RigdzinTrinley]

I'll take some nirvikalpa samadhi anytime!

 

but I only get espresso, and then you know, I like espresso and all, much easier to get espresso then nirvikalpa samadhi too (what ever nirvikalpa samadhi might be - I think it must be glorious).

Why do I always end up with espresso...? I even know its not good for my health and energy levels

 

yet I always end up with espresso and never with samadhi

 

I met those great sri lankan forest monks, living on a little island in hte middle of a lagoon, called polgasdue (coconut island), they had attained all sorts of samadhi based on well - the energy of the place and how easy it was to meditate there and go deeeeeeeep and also based on their smile - it was beyond happy, totally blissed out and relaxed beings

 

next day I went for espresso - end of story

Edited April 4, 2016 by RigdzinTrinley

[Apech]

I'll take some nirvikalpa samadhi anytime!

 

but I only get espresso, and then you know, I like espresso and all, much easier to get espresso then nirvikalpa samadhi too (what ever nirvikalpa samadhi might be - I think it must be glorious).

Why do I always end up with espresso...? I even know its not good for my health and energy levels

 

yet I always end up with espresso and never with samadhi

 

I met those great sri lankan forest monks, living on a little island in hte middle of a lagoon, called polgasdue (coconut island), they had attained all sorts of samadhi based on well - the energy of the place and how easy it was to meditate there and go deeeeeeeep and also based on their smile - it was beyond happy, totally blissed out and relaxed beings

 

next day I went for espresso - end of story

 

om starbucks.

[Apech]

Not one for quotes normally but ....

 

From Gampopa's Jewel Ornament ...

 

"Suppose some Inidian merchants go to fetch jewels from the outer sea, but in the middle of their journey, in some desert, they become exhausted and think they cannot go on.  Then as they are abut to turn back, their leader by his miraculous powers creates a huge city for their refuge. ...

 

"Thus all Sravakas (Hearers)

Think that they have attained Nirvana

To them the Victorious One (Buddha) says

That this is rest but not Nirvana.""

 

In other words it is possible to mistake resting in the unsullied mind brought about by purification for actual enlightenment and it is indeed a dead end.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Apech

[gatito]

Is Nirvikalpa Samadhi actually the Height of Divine Consciousness or is it in fact just an ingenious spiritual trap and a dead end?

 

From Samadhi: The Height of Divine Consciousness

 

In nirvikalpa samadhi there is no mind; there is only infinite peace and bliss. There nature's dance stops, and the knower and the known become one. There you enjoy a supremely divine, all-pervading, self-amorous ecstasy. You become the object of enjoyment, you become the enjoyer and you become the enjoyment itself.

 

When you enter into nirvikalpa samadhi, the first thing you feel is that your heart is larger than the universe itself. Ordinarily you see the world around you, and the universe seems infinitely larger than you are. But this is because the world and the universe are perceived by the limited mind. When you are in nirvikalpa samadhi, you see the universe as a tiny dot inside your vast heart.

 

In nirvikalpa samadhi there is infinite bliss. Bliss is a vague word to most people. They hear that there is something called bliss, and some people say that they have experienced it, but most individuals have no firsthand knowledge of it. When you enter into nirvikalpa samadhi, however, you not only feel bliss, but actually grow into that bliss.

 

The third thing you feel in nirvikalpa samadhi is power. All the power of all the occultists put together is nothing compared with the power you have in nirvikalpa samadhi. But the power that you can take from samadhi to utilise on earth is infinitesimal compared with the entirety.

 

Nirvikalpa samadhi is the highest samadhi that most realised spiritual Masters attain. It lasts for a few hours or a few days, and then one has to come down. When one comes down, what happens? Very often one forgets his own name and age; one cannot speak or think properly. But through continued practice, gradually one becomes able to come down from nirvikalpa samadhi and immediately function in a normal way. Generally, when one enters into nirvikalpa samadhi, one does not want to come back into the world again. If one stays there for eighteen or twenty-one days, there is every possibility that the soul will leave the body for good. There were spiritual Masters in the hoary past who attained nirvikalpa samadhi and did not come down. They attained their highest samadhi, but found it impossible to enter into the world atmosphere again and work like human beings. One cannot operate in the world while in that state of consciousness; it is simply impossible. But there is a divine dispensation. If the Supreme wants a particular soul to work here on earth, even after twenty-one or twenty-two days, the Supreme can take that individual into was another channel of dynamic, divine consciousness and have him return to the earth-plane to act.

 

http://www.srichinmo...plation/samadhi

 

"War Nirvikalpa Samadhi - what is it good for?" Elaine

 

The quote that you posted is not from someone who is speaking from direct first-hand experience and it is extremely misleading...

[RigdzinTrinley]

om starbucks.

 

wow wow there, I am an addict alright and will never attain samadhi because of that, but but but sir I do have some class

 

*I am a classy addict!!!

 

*you should visualize foam forming on my mouth and some droplets of spittel spraying about while I say this last line with some forte

[Apech]

wow wow there, I am an addict alright and will never attain samadhi because of that, but but but sir I do have some class *I am a classy addict!!! *you should visualize foam forming on my mouth and some droplets of spittel spraying about while I say this last line with some forte

 

[Jeff]

Is Nirvikalpa Samadhi actually the Height of Divine Consciousness or is it in fact just an ingenious spiritual trap and a dead end?

 

 "War Nirvikalpa Samadhi - what is it good for?" Elaine

 

You raise an interesting point. But, what your above author does not say, and should be realized that Nirvikalpa SamadhI is not same thing/experience for everyone. A good analogy is like scuba diving in water when it is totally dark. One person dives down 10 feet, the pressure gets to them, and because they cannot see/sense, they think that they are at the bottom and it is all the same. A more experienced diver can handle more pressure and go deeper to 100 feet. More experienced divers continue to go much deeper...

 

This is why many traditions talk about repeating (or going back). Whether there is usefulness to such diving, would seem to depend on the diver...

[Michael Sternbach]

I'll take some nirvikalpa samadhi anytime!

 

but I only get espresso, and then you know, I like espresso and all, much easier to get espresso then nirvikalpa samadhi too (what ever nirvikalpa samadhi might be - I think it must be glorious).

Why do I always end up with espresso...? I even know its not good for my health and energy levels

 

yet I always end up with espresso and never with samadhi

 

I met those great sri lankan forest monks, living on a little island in hte middle of a lagoon, called polgasdue (coconut island), they had attained all sorts of samadhi based on well - the energy of the place and how easy it was to meditate there and go deeeeeeeep and also based on their smile - it was beyond happy, totally blissed out and relaxed beings

 

next day I went for espresso - end of story

 

However, it's easier to get Nirvikalpa Samadhi in India than real coke. At least it was like that when I was there some 30 years ago.

[Bindi]

You raise an interesting point. But, what your above author does not say, and should be realized that Nirvikalpa SamadhI is not same thing/experience for everyone. A good analogy is like scuba diving in water when it is totally dark. One person dives down 10 feet, the pressure gets to them, and because they cannot see/sense, they think that they are at the bottom and it is all the same. A more experienced diver can handle more pressure and go deeper to 100 feet. More experienced divers continue to go much deeper... This is why many traditions talk about repeating (or going back). Whether there is usefulness to such diving, would seem to depend on the diver...

 

Isn't going deeper just entering into a blissful temporary state more deeply?

 

Can work be done at any samadhi level to remove ignorance about the nature of one’s self?

 

Might the ego self even be strengthened by one's ability to enter this state?  

[Bindi]

The quote that you posted is not from someone who is speaking from direct first-hand experience and it is extremely misleading...

 

gatito, can you give me a link to another definition?

[Jeff]

Isn't going deeper just entering into a blissful temporary state more deeply?

 

Can work be done at any samadhi level to remove ignorance about the nature of one’s self?

 

Might the ego self even be strengthened by one's ability to enter this state?  

 

Yes, on the deeper.  But, in the analogy terms, the goal is more realizing that you are the ocean and not a diver in the ocean. And one can only reach deeper levels if they have let go of the "ignorance" (issues and fears) that obscure the clear vision of being the ocean.

 

As you have said, there is definitely a huge risk in kind of developing a spiritual ego of some attainment.  Kind of like believing that you are "done" or have arrived. If there are changes of state, then it is obvious of the "mind".

[RigdzinTrinley]

However, it's easier to get Nirvikalpa Samadhi in India than real coke. At least it was like that when I was there some 30 years ago.

 

the buddha was right about impermanence - coke arrived in its full glory, and if there is no espresso to keep the yatra (pilgrimage) going then a coke will do. Made me move through strange situations (or did this devils brew cause the situations in the first place? the chicken and the egg dilemma)

 

india 30 years ago and india now is probably like the difference between earth and sky - somehow related but also totally different spheres

 

anyway I dont want to high-jack bindis discussion with my useless blabla

 

I go now bye

[gatito]

gatito, can you give me a link to another definition?

 

nirvikalpa

 

samadhi

 

Interesting language, isn't it...?

[Apech]

nirvikalpa

 

samadhi

 

Interesting language, isn't it...?

 

आम्

[Bindi]

Yes, on the deeper.  But, in the analogy terms, the goal is more realizing that you are the ocean and not a diver in the ocean. And one can only reach deeper levels if they have let go of the "ignorance" (issues and fears) that obscure the clear vision of being the ocean.

  

If there can be no work done in the state of Nirvikalpa samadhi, and the work of letting go of ignorance has to be done previous to it, then the value of this state seems to be reduced to me.  

 

And then if the work that has to be done outside of Nirvikalpa samadhi is done properly, and you realise that you are the ocean not a diver, then there is still no reason to enter this state, because you have realised this truth while outside of Nirvikalpa samadhi. 

 

 

As you have said, there is definitely a huge risk in kind of developing a spiritual ego of some attainment.  Kind of like believing that you are "done" or have arrived. If there are changes of state, then it is obvious of the "mind".

[Bindi]

आम्

 

अनुवाद भद्रं व

[Bindi]

…We suggest the role of Samadhi is supportive--or purifying--and is preliminary to, but not necessarily identical with, the rise of the liberating knowledge. As is well known, Sankara considers that knowledge alone, the insight concerning the truth of things, is what liberates… Although the importance of concentration is evident from the early Upanisads (BU 4.4.23), a form of yoga practice leading to the absorptive state of Samadhi is only in evidence in the later texts. We have seen that Sankara does speak of a type of concentration upon the Self which is akin to yoga insofar as there is the withdrawal of the mind from sense objects, but he does not advocate more than that and he does not put forward the view that we find in classical Yoga about the necessity of total thought suppression. We have seen that he has used the word Samadhi very sparingly, and when he has used it, it was not always in an unambiguously favorable context. It should be clear that Sankara does not set up nirvikalpa-samadhi as a spiritual goal. For if he had thought it to be an indispensable requirement for liberation, then he would have said so. But he has not said so. Contemplation on the Self is obviously a part of Sankara's teaching, but his contemplation is directed toward seeing the ever present Self as free from all conditionings rather than toward the attainment of nirvikalpa-samadhi.

 

http://sped2work.tripod.com/samadhi.html

[Apech]

अनुवाद भद्रं व

 

 

How dare you!

[gatito]

 

…We suggest the role of Samadhi is supportive--or purifying--and is preliminary to, but not necessarily identical with, the rise of the liberating knowledge. As is well known, Sankara considers that knowledge alone, the insight concerning the truth of things, is what liberates… Although the importance of concentration is evident from the early Upanisads (BU 4.4.23), a form of yoga practice leading to the absorptive state of Samadhi is only in evidence in the later texts. We have seen that Sankara does speak of a type of concentration upon the Self which is akin to yoga insofar as there is the withdrawal of the mind from sense objects, but he does not advocate more than that and he does not put forward the view that we find in classical Yoga about the necessity of total thought suppression. We have seen that he has used the word Samadhi very sparingly, and when he has used it, it was not always in an unambiguously favorable context. It should be clear that Sankara does not set up nirvikalpa-samadhi as a spiritual goal. For if he had thought it to be an indispensable requirement for liberation, then he would have said so. But he has not said so. Contemplation on the Self is obviously a part of Sankara's teaching, but his contemplation is directed toward seeing the ever present Self as free from all conditionings rather than toward the attainment of nirvikalpa-samadhi.

 

http://sped2work.tripod.com/samadhi.html

 

Again, this is not written by someone who is speaking from direct first-hand experience of nirvikalpa samadhi and again this sort of uninformed speculation is extremely misleading...

[Bindi]

Again, this is not written by someone who is speaking from direct first-hand experience of nirvikalpa samadhi and again this sort of uninformed speculation is extremely misleading...

 

Ramana? 

 

 In his writings Bhagavan has said that self-enquiry leads to the experience of aham sphurana, and that abidance in the aham sphurana leads on to a full realisation of the sahaja nirvikalpa state. He was less positive about kevala nirvikalpa samadhi, often saying that it was a temporary state, and that the mind would eventually re-emerge from it. He generally tried to discourage devotees from trying to reach this state since he regarded it as something akin to an unproductive detour.(28) One can infer from his remarks and writings that self-enquiry, properly undertaken, bypasses this kevala nirvikalpa state completely and reaches the sahaja state via the alternate route of the aham sphurana experience.

 

 When the Heart is permanently open, the world, which was previously assumed to be external, is experienced not as separate names and forms, but as one's own Self, as the immanent Brahman. In nirvikalpa samadhi, according to Bhagavan, the Heart temporarily opens to admit the mind, but then closes again. Thus the nirvikalpa experience of the Self is both limited (in so far as it is temporary) and 'internal'. Because the Heart remains closed, the sahaja experience of the world being Brahman is absent.

 

In Ulladu Narpadu, Upadesa Undiyarand Vichara Sangraham Bhagavan makes the point that it is self-enquiry that leads to aham sphurana. Nowhere is it mentioned in these texts that other methods lead to this state.

 

http://davidgodman.org/rteach/iandii2.shtml

[Jeff]

If there can be no work done in the state of Nirvikalpa samadhi, and the work of letting go of ignorance has to be done previous to it, then the value of this state seems to be reduced to me.  

 

And then if the work that has to be done outside of Nirvikalpa samadhi is done properly, and you realise that you are the ocean not a diver, then there is still no reason to enter this state, because you have realised this truth while outside of Nirvikalpa samadhi. 

 

If you do not resonate with such an approach, I understand your point. But, maybe another analogy to think about it like working out with exercising... If you want to get stronger and in shape, you push until the muscles burn...