The four Thoughts

[RigdzinTrinley]

I had this insight into my own mortality around the same age, but I was looking into a mirror - and it just dawned on me "this is not going to lat forever"

 

hence my love for staring in the mirror and thinking "you are already dead"

 

And Apech Apech what with this aleph mem shin situation and buddhist cosmology and also qabalistic thought? what you think about that?

Edited April 12, 2016 by RigdzinTrinley

[Apech]

I had this insight into my own mortality around the same age, but I was looking into a mirror - and it just dawned on me "this is not going to lat forever"

 

hence my love for staring in the mirror and thinking "you are already dead"

 

And Apech Apech what with this aleph mem shin situation and buddhist cosmology and also qabalistic thought? what you think about that?

 

 

Ah that's interesting - I wonder how many people have this experience.

 

I think you need Michael for the gematria ... all I know is that the hebrew letters have a meaning and a number - but I don't know in this context.

[RigdzinTrinley]

all my vajra brothers and sisters who try to lead a spiritual life had this experience and remember it very vividly

 

I think it is somehow pretty universal

 

I think several of my friends had it in connection with a mirror, strange childhood awakenings of all kinds I mean...

 

also this first moment of thinking "whoops I exist as an seperate entity and I just now go to a place called school" or something like that - weird experience too, I recall that a little as well, not as clearly but yes.Also the first german feelings of "I will be late OH MY GOOOOD" sorry for the degression

 

and also my mother had this amazing huge garderobe and all the doors were mirrors, and you could place them in a way that your own reflection became infinite - I spend a lot of time there as a child as well wondering "what is this?" and "who am I?"

 

Mirrors are indeed magical things

Edited April 12, 2016 by RigdzinTrinley

[doc benway]

There is a beautiful Bönpo prayer of impermanence. It's rather long and each stanza speaks of an aspect of our attachment to the illusion of permanence in this life. The refrain sings: 

Bless me that the realization of impermanence will arise in my mindstream.

 

The most powerful impermanence practice for me is to contemplate my death. I start a few months out and imagine receiving news of a terminal illness. I walk through the progression of my gradual deterioration and its effect on my loved ones and acquaintances. On the day of death I visualize my dissolution into elemental processes. At the end I rest in that clear and open space and then come back to the realization that I am alive. That transition back to life is extremely powerful and helps to give motivation and guidance to my actions. 

 

Working in the healthcare field, I am constantly reminded of the fragility of life, of the ever present spectre of injury and death. It is very sobering. I would highly recommend anyone practicing impermanence to visit places like nursing homes, hospitals, and so forth, and volunteer for a day just talking to the people and being in their presence. 

[Apech]

I avoid hospitals - they always seem to be full of sick people for some reason. (ho ho)

 

@Steve,

 

How does doing that exercise make you feel?  I think many who read this kind of thing find it possibly depressing - but strangely I always find that death/impermanence meditations lighten me up and make me quite jolly.  Not sure why - but perhaps something to do with shedding a little of attachment.

[Michael Sternbach]

Ok lets move on to the second contemplation: Death and Imnpermanence

 

in the words of my perfect teacher this is contemplated in seven steps, I write shortly about the first three:

 

1)The impermanence of the outer "container" universe we are living in

2)The impermanence of the "contained" beings inhabiting this universe

3)The impermanence of holy beings

 

I'll stay more or less traditional but if you like you can continue to add your experiences and personal approach of working with those contemplations, I would really appreciate this.

 

1) the impermanence of the outer "container" universe

 

this world is said to last for one kalpa, which in human years is more or less incomprehensible. How it appears is based on the collective karmic vision of the 6 types of sentient beings - means it is not actually something "out there"

 

one famous example of disperate karmic vision is that of a glass of water - your ordinary human being will perceive it as water, a hell being as molten iron, a hungry ghost as pus and blood, a naga (representing animals) as a palace, a demigod as weapons, and a god as amrita

 

those appearnces are said to be dreamlike and insubstantial, but through the force of past habituation it appears to be solid, truly established (real) and also it appears as if there is this seperation between perceiver and perceived

 

so when we talk about how the universe "appears" - in philosophical lingo it's "mode of appearance" instead of its "abiding mode" we also have to talk about how everything compounded is impermanent

 

in traditional teachings the destruction or death of this universe is meditated upon in 7 stages of fire and 7 of water (Michael + Apech, I hope you still read along here because - I found this to be somehow connected with the three hebrew syllabels Aleph, Mem and Shin... maybe you can share some western hermetic wisdom here?)

 

one after another seven suns are said to appear and destroy first small water bodies - and then dry up the ocean, trees are burning, and at the end even the mountains and earth is being consumed in flames - so this human realm (+the humans) and other realms by this point are no more

 

then 7 times massive rain clouds are forming in the higher form realms and wash everything away

 

at the end when almost nothing is remaining - the crossed vajra of wind at the base of the universe rises up and destroys the remaining formless realms of the gods

 

here now we have this strange correspondance of Aleph = the root of wind; Mem = the root of water; and Shin = the root of fire as having something to do with the manifestation of this universe from a qabalistic POV, could anyone of the hermetic order of TDB relate those a little bit more then the limited correspondance I saw there?

 

back to the buiscuits: destruction through 7 times fire, 7 times water, 1 time wind and after that only space is remaining

 

Patrul Rinpoche ends this chapter like this: "reflect deeply and sincerely - if every one of the billion universes which constitute the cosmos, each with its own mount meru, four continents and heavenly realms, is destroyed simulteniously in such a way, leaving only space behind, however could this human bodies of ours, which are like flies at the end of the season, have any stability or permanence?"

 

straight to the heart like usual

 

2) the impermanence of beings inhabiting the universe:

 

all those different karmic visions of beings that constitute their respective realms - all those illusion like appearances of life that they suffer and enjoy will end

 

everything that is born is bound to die

 

from the latter of consolation:

 

have you ever, on earth or in the heavens,

Seen a being born who will not die?

Or heard that such a thing had happened?

Or suspected that it might?

 

there is no certainty when we will die, how we will die and where we will die - the only certainty is that we will

 

Again I like the meditations from the Bodhisattvacharyavatara and other lojong text where you see yourself as a walking corpse and once in a while visualize your own death and disintegration - I like to look into the mirror and try to think of me as already dead

 

I also do a short daily chöd practice, and there you visualize how you become the deity and cut your ordinary body (that which changes and dies finally) into pieces and boil it down to nice wishfullfilling amrita, that one then offers to the buddhas and bodhisattvas as well as the 6types of beings - the instruction is to see how you boil, how the skin is falling of your face etc. see your intestines, muscles, bones etc melt into nectar

 

its a great way to remind myself that what does all the walking, sitting, pissing, shitting chatting etc is just here now because of karmic connections, it is fickle like "flies at the end of the season" or like a "bubble in a mountain stream"

 

Now most people of course will say - "it is obvious that I am going to die, so why meditate on it? It is depressing, and I rather meditate on the deathless so I can feel a bit less depressed" or something like that

 

the teachings say that meditation on death, is actually the fastest and fail save way to arrive at the deathless - so no problem, also usually we don't live our life like it is our last day on earth, we still plan this and that, and are busy with many things that seem pretty shallow in comparison with manifesting enlightenment for the benefit of all life... so from the 4 thought, this is my absolute favourite one and for me the most powerful one as well, so I am sorry we will stay here a bit longer

 

Let's live in cities of walking dead corpses for a day or two and see what that does to our consciousness and "self-image"

 

3) the impermanence of holy beings

 

The Buddhas of the past are no more, the Siddhas of the past are no more, great Yogis and Adepts of many traditions are no more, (we can argue that there are beings who manifested a body of light and still live with us and teach and benefit us, but again these meditations serve a certain purpose and are not meant as the "final word" on all matters)

 

the arhats of old, the yogis who could fly like milarepa, or manifest things that are "not existent" and dematerialize things that are "existent" - in short beings with siddhis that don't really fit our usual mindset have exsited (and still do as far as I am concerned), but those powers and attainment didn't save them from suffering physical death

(not that they suffer - they have a grand old time dying, because they spend their lifes working on realizing the true nature of "death")

 

anyway they are no more, only their stories are with us

 

now when I look at my self, and how much effort I put into practice and study of the wisdom traditions, how much I actually use of my time to become an accomplished adept or siddha, well in short - that ain't going to do it R.T.

 

I don't feel insignificant because of that, I don't compare myself in terms of good and bad - I just try to be realistic

 

I remember all the people who come to india for a short time - get inspired and tell me how they are going to manifest rainbow body in this life, or how they want to be wandering chö yogis and yogninis, I either stay quiet or wish them good luck with that.

 

I think the beings that have the capacity to manifest rainbowbody are not in my immidiate social strata - lets say it like that

 

it is a truly beautiful ideal and wish to have - for sure

 

I rather meditate on my own death (and yes I probably will die shitting my pants, rather then disappearing in a cloud of light) then conceptualize how and where I will go into retreat to attain rainbowbody, while in actuality nothing much in terms of practice or retreat is happening

 

Edited some major funky sentences

 

Okay, here some funky thoughts on this.    For I feel that they are still embryonic and somewhat vague.

 

Anyways, what your question brings to mind is once again my perception of what is called Conformal Cyclic Cosmology (CCC), which I have mentioned previously on this forum, because I find its consonance with both Hinduist/Buddhist cosmology as well as Kabbalah very intriguing, even though it is formulated in the language of modern physics and mathematics.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_cyclic_cosmology

 

This is a model created by the theoretical physicist Roger Penrose, one of the founders of the Big Bang theory, of which CCC is an extension. It agrees with the four stages of a kalpa in Buddhist theory:

1. First quarter - time taken for this world to form.
2. Second quarter - stable duration of this world where all living beings can thrive.
3. Third quarter - time taken for this world to be destroyed.
4. Fourth quarter - empty time period.

During the third stage (which takes up an unimaginable number of years) all the matter in the Universe is broken down to pure light. In a Universe that contains nothing but light, spacetime as we know it ceases to exist and turns into a "spacelike and timelike infinity". This is strongly reminiscent of Kabbalah's En-Soph-Aur, God's Infinite and Eternal Light.

 

Paradoxically, this state coincides with the timeless and spaceless Singularity of another Big Bang. In this way, in Penrose's theory, one Universe is succeeded by another, exactly like in the Hinduist/Buddhist understanding, with the peculiarity that the fourth stage of a kalpa or (in the vocabulary of CCC) Aeon is both infinitely long and short. A paradox worthy of a Zen master, to be sure. My personal view is that the new Universe is somehow born from the interplay of infinite extension and infinite contraction, but I couldn't formulate this idea more precisely so far.

 

What makes your mention of the Kabbalistic three mother letters so interesting is that they represent the cosmic functions of expansive fire (shin), contractive water (mem), and the air (aleph) that mediates between, or is the result of these polar forces.

 

Whereby I happily pass the ball back to you.

[doc benway]

I avoid hospitals - they always seem to be full of sick people for some reason. (ho ho)

 

@Steve,

 

How does doing that exercise make you feel?  I think many who read this kind of thing find it possibly depressing - but strangely I always find that death/impermanence meditations lighten me up and make me quite jolly.  Not sure why - but perhaps something to do with shedding a little of attachment.

It makes me feel great! Invigorated, anxious to commit to deeper and more consistent practice, ready to focus more on the important things like family and relationships and less interested in wasting time with materialism and similar foolishness. It gives a deep feeling of gratitude and appreciation for this life. 

 

PS - I avoid hospitals too!

[RigdzinTrinley]

Okay, here some funky thoughts on this.    For I feel that they are still embryonic and somewhat vague.

 

Anyways, what your question brings to mind is once again my perception of what is called Conformal Cyclic Cosmology (CCC), which I have mentioned previously on this forum, because I find its consonance with both Hinduist/Buddhist cosmology as well as Kabbalah very intriguing, even though it is formulated in the language of modern physics and mathematics.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_cyclic_cosmology

 

This is a model created by the theoretical physicist Roger Penrose, one of the founders of the Big Bang theory, of which CCC is an extension. It agrees with the four stages of a kalpa in Buddhist theory:

1. First quarter - time taken for this world to form.
   
2. Second quarter - stable duration of this world where all living beings can thrive.
   
3. Third quarter - time taken for this world to be destroyed.
   
4. Fourth quarter - empty time period.
   

During the third stage (which takes up an unimaginable number of years) all the matter in the Universe is broken down to pure light. In a Universe that contains nothing but light, spacetime as we know it ceases to exist and turns into a "spacelike and timelike infinity". This is strongly reminiscent of Kabbalah's En-Soph-Aur, God's Infinite and Eternal Light.

 

Paradoxically, this state coincides with the timeless and spaceless Singularity of another Big Bang. In this way, in Penrose's theory, one Universe is succeeded by another, exactly like in the Hinduist/Buddhist understanding, with the peculiarity that the fourth stage of a kalpa or (in the vocabulary of CCC) Aeon is both infinitely long and short. A paradox worthy of a Zen master, to be sure. My personal view is that the new Universe is somehow born from the interplay of infinite extension and infinite contraction, but I couldn't formulate this idea more precisely so far.

 

What makes your mention of the Kabbalistic three mother letters so interesting is that they represent the cosmic functions of expansive fire (shin), contractive water (mem), and the air (aleph) that mediates between, or is the result of these polar forces.

 

Whereby I happily pass the ball back to you.

 

Dear micheal,

can you say some more about those three letters? I can see how you relate them with expansion and contraction in mr penroses presentation - which shares a lot of similarities with the little buddhist cosmology I know - he somehow also figured out that time is a circle and not a line

 

fire in buddhist thought is expansive and what gives a thing it's warmth so to speak and water is binding (what keeps things together) so similar I guess, wind is that which moves things

 

I din't study too much cosmology actually, but there is a big section in jamgon kongtruls treasury of knowledge on it - I will read about that sooner or later

[Apech]

Dear micheal, can you say some more about those three letters? I can see how you relate them with expansion and contraction in mr penroses presentation - which shares a lot of similarities with the little buddhist cosmology I know - he somehow also figured out that time is a circle and not a line fire in buddhist thought is expansive and what gives a thing it's warmth so to speak and water is binding (what keeps things together) so similar I guess, wind is that which moves things I din't study too much cosmology actually, but there is a big section in jamgon kongtruls treasury of knowledge on it - I will read about that sooner or later

 

 

I'm not convinced that there really is anything as Buddhist cosmology really.  I think that Buddhism just appropriated and adapted the cultural world view of the prevailing times, most notably the Vedic cosmology.  I know there is a sutra in which the Buddha appears to outline a cosmology but I think this is an example of one of his semi-humerus critiques of vedic religion.

[Michael Sternbach]

I'm not convinced that there really is anything as Buddhist cosmology really.  I think that Buddhism just appropriated and adapted the cultural world view of the prevailing times, most notably the Vedic cosmology.  I know there is a sutra in which the Buddha appears to outline a cosmology but I think this is an example of one of his semi-humerus critiques of vedic religion.

 

Yes, what RT is telling is here rather sounds like a re-edition of Vedic/Hindu cosmology. There is a lot of advanced science in the vedas, in my opinion.

[RigdzinTrinley]

Agreed, many conceptions are from the vedic system. For me I second Bob Thurman and say that the Buddha was the greatest vedantist, as well as sri aurobindo who said that Buddha and Nagarjuna restored the ancient vedic wisdom to its proper function and understanding (see his "life divine" amazing book on indian philosophy)

Edited April 15, 2016 by RigdzinTrinley

[Apech]

Agreed, many conceptions are from the vedic system. For me I second Bob Thurman and say that the Buddha was the greatest vedantist, as well as sri aurobindo who said that Buddha and Nagarjuna restored the ancient vedic wisdom to its proper function and understanding (see his "life divine" amazing book on indian philosophy)

 

 

really?  I have read that the Sakya clan were not in the Vedic mainstream and that although Buddha used vedic based ideas like karma - he reinterpreted them in a way that no Vedantist would do.

[RigdzinTrinley]

Aurobindo f.e. said that the buddhas idea of nihil is in accord with what the vedantic seers of old intended - read his divine life, it is very interesting, he devotes one chapter to this

 

This is as far as I can go - because I did not spend much time reading and pondering this, I just know this view exists also note what atisha said with regards to hindu philosophical systems and buddhist systems (it is in either words of my perfect teacher or the guide to the words of my perfect teacher by khenpo ngawang pelsang). Also I was on teachings with dzongsar khyentse and he remarked that post shankaracharya it is very hard to tell the difference between the views ultimate position... so from there it is not soooo difficult to think about how the buddha might be a vedantist on some level he is and was the buddha of course, not saying he was a hindu, but beeing the buddha he probably was a great hindu, christian etc

 

Something else that might be of interesst I was and am looking into the intersection of buddhist tantra, the nath sampradaya and certain esoteric sufi lineages like the baul sampradaya

 

because all teach very similar things, and it is believed that during the old golden days when tantra was just emerging on this plane of existence the yogis of all those lineages intermingled and exchanged ideas and empowerments, if you want to go deeper you could start by googling "taranatha and buddhaguptanatha" and then go from there

 

also researching the charyagiti and other old tantric transmission I found similarities in language and even lineage masters come up in different paths

 

but that for another time and thread?

Edited April 16, 2016 by RigdzinTrinley

[doc benway]

Aurobindo f.e. said that the buddhas idea of nihil is in accord with what the vedantic seers of old intended - read his divine life, it is very interesting, he devotes one chapter to this

 

This is as far as I can go - because I did not spend much time reading and pondering this, I just know this view exists also note what atisha said with regards to hindu philosophical systems and buddhist systems (it is in either words of my perfect teacher or the guide to the words of my perfect teacher by khenpo ngawang pelsang). Also I was on teachings with dzongsar khyentse and he remarked that post shankaracharya it is very hard to tell the difference between the views ultimate position... so from there it is not soooo difficult to think about how the buddha might be a vedantist on some level he is and was the buddha of course, not saying he was a hindu, but beeing the buddha he probably was a great hindu, christian etc

 

Something else that might be of interesst I was and am looking into the intersection of buddhist tantra, the nath sampradaya and certain esoteric sufi lineages like the baul sampradaya

 

because all teach very similar things, and it is believed that during the old golden days when tantra was just emerging on this plane of existence the yogis of all those lineages intermingled and exchanged ideas and empowerments, if you want to go deeper you could start by googling "taranatha and buddhaguptanatha" and then go from there

 

also researching the charyagiti and other old tantric transmission I found similarities in language and even lineage masters come up in different paths

 

but that for another time and thread?

You will also find deep similarities with Daoist meditation practices. 

[Apech]

Its a big subject - these comparisons - maybe another thread?