Father Christmas is real

[Nikolai1]

Real children write actual letters to Santa Claus.  They pay for real postage stamps and post them in real post boxes.  Real, paid postal workers collect these letters and fly them to depots in Norway and Finland,  This is real economic activity.

 

When children stop believing in Santa Claus, they stop writing to him.  They withdraw from the economic system they once participated in with full commitment.

 

The mature, awakened adult faces a predicament.  He no longer believes in the myths of his peers: the myths that are the foundation of nearly all adult industry.  

 

What is left for him to work for?

[Marblehead]

Oh, No!  He's looking for a purpose of life without made-up fairy tales.

 

How about reality?  How about making things a little better for yourself and those you care about?

 

How about save up money and take a trip around the world?

 

So many things one can do without holding to the children's stories of when we were young.

[Junko]

Maybe we all still need a character like that for something.

Just like people who need a clown for a circus show.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Junko

[Marblehead]

Maybe we all still need a character like that for something.

Just like people who need a clown for a circus show.

I'm only making suggestions.  Yes, I know that different people need different things than I need.  Thing is though, if our needs hold us back from living a natural life then I think it would be wise to lessen our needs or at least modify them.

[Nungali]

Yeah ... when I was a kid, they finally fessed up  ... its not true, its a story,  you are old enough now  to know. 

 

  ,,,,    well,  okay then ...    ya got me with that one. 

 

Then when I got a bit older I waited to hear about he rest of story being made up .  But they never told me, so I asked ; 

 

So ... when are you going to tell me about how all this Jesus stuff got made up too . 

 

Oh no !  Thats the part of Christmas that is true  !  

 

.... come one guys .... ya got me once ... I am not that silly !    THen , after years I realised they actually believed  that part of the Christmas story !    Even into and through their adulthood !     

[thelerner]

 

 

The mature, awakened adult faces a predicament.  He no longer believes in the myths of his peers: the myths that are the foundation of nearly all adult industry.  

 

What is left for him to work for?

To embody the spirit of Santa Claus, if only for the season.  That's pretty good. 

Be the archetype; open heart, spreading joy, making kids happy.

Peace on Earth, good will to men kinda stuff.

[Nikolai1]

In this thread the belief in Santa Claus was an example of illusion translating into real economic reality.

 

99% of human industry is based on the same kind of illusion.  All the myriad goods and services are meaningless to the awakened person who has found their true wealth on the inside.

 

When children stop believing in Santa they stop writing to him.

 

What can the awakened adult do? Unless he participates he will perish.  If he wishes not to perish he must presumably engage in that economic activity that is consistent with his wish.

 

Must the awakened man become a farmer, a producer of food, and a builder of shelter?

[Marblehead]

Must the awakened man become a farmer, a producer of food, and a builder of shelter?

The awakened (wo)man should be what their Tzujan dictates they should be in order to have inner peace.  (This leaves room for a lot of nasty people on the planet.)

[Pyramidalcow]

santa = satan. omg

[Nungali]

What ?  The 'enlightened' are too good to work and be in society ?  or some other reason they should not partake ?  or they could be a teacher of something . 

 

 

Is this part of Daoism ?   I am not familiar enough to comment . I know it seems part of some 'austerity systems'  ....  in what I have been taught and studied , it doesnt work like that . 

 

Sufism sets a good example '   the builder that becomes 'enlightened' or achieves 'realization'  then becomes and enlightened builder , and makes even better houses, making a better society - the same with all professions.  

 

Societies reach their height when the number of 'enlightened'   (or at least  educated ) people is maximised .  

 

But then again I got educated in the glorious post Whitlam era , I got free University Education for that very reason  ( I asked when signing in at Admin why it was free , and  that was basically the answer ) . 

 

Those days are gone now , in this current  society an political agendas   ( I even think part of the political agenda back then was 'social welfare' !  ...      )

[Nungali]

The awakened (wo)man should be what their Tzujan dictates they should be in order to have inner peace.  (This leaves room for a lot of nasty people on the planet.)

 

Sounds a bit like 'True Will' .  

 

The 'True Will' of the alligator  (if it has one )   seems nasty to a lot of other animals. 

 

 

 

How would you describe Tzujan Marbles ? 

[Marblehead]

How would you describe Tzujan Marbles ? 

Very carefully.

 

The first time I read a definition of Tzujan my mind linked to the already known concept of "Self-actualization".

 

That is, becoming whatever we can become and still feel we are being our natural self.  This would be a state of which we would have no internal conflict regarding how we are living and how we interact with our external world.

[Nikolai1]

Sufism sets a good example '   the builder that becomes 'enlightened' or achieves 'realization'  then becomes and enlightened builder , and makes even better houses, making a better society - the same with all professions.  

But the builder was already doing proper work in the first place.  Most of the industry in the developed world is geared towards producing and providing goods and services that become immediately obsolete upon awakening.

 

Do I need to go on holiday to Egypt? Do I need a travel agent to show me round? Do I need a plane to fly me there? Do I need a hotel to stay in while there? Do I need an insurance agent to insure me against the agent and the plane and the hotel?

 

Home is my Luxor, I the Pharoah who dwells there...

 

And the list goes on.  The world is chock full of work geared towards making incomplete, unhappy and aimless people feel less this way.

 

The awakened individual cannot particpate in this anymore.  The need is gone, the passion gone. 

 

So how does he particpate?  I teaching the only course open?

[Nungali]

But the builder was already doing proper work in the first place.

 

That assumption means that enlightenment or realisation is useless then. 

 

 

The idea rests on what is 'proper'.    Anyone , even me, can work on building a house, I have done a few.  Crappy bad buildings are everywhere.  I even heard a western architect say this ;  "  A good architect is not someone who designs a living complex, that looks stylish,  saves money, makes him a lot of money and fame but is unsuitable and needs to be pulled down after 20 years as  its unhealthy and social problems have developed around it.  A good architect is one that can create buildings for good living conditions that make people happy and it improves society.

 

I saw a Sufi 'brick maker' being interviewed, not only did he make the bricks from raw natural material nearby he stacked them together to make buildings ' no  written or drawn plans, he made it up as he went along, according to what he knew of the family and the people who the house was for ... he sort of 'channelled' the building  and the managing of the building process.  people didnt even tel him what design to build, he just knew and they were happy with what he did, he built  just about all the buildings in the village.   The whole village was a beautiful harmonious work of art ....   so he even had 'urban design' going on his head when he built, so all of his structures fitted togther. 

 

 

 Most of the industry in the developed world is geared towards producing and providing goods and services that become immediately obsolete upon awakening. 

 

I agree .... my example was to show something that is not 'most'  nor from the 'developed world' .   To follow the example of building more, most building in the developed world is crap, designed to make money for the builder and as a side, it creates unhealthy and unhappy living conditions and bad social conditions. 

 

 

 

Do I need to go on holiday to Egypt? Do I need a travel agent to show me round? Do I need a plane to fly me there? Do I need a hotel to stay in while there? Do I need an insurance agent to insure me against the agent and the plane and the hotel?

 

Thats for you to decide .

 

I dont need to do those things .  I live a pretty simple lifestyle

 

Home is my Luxor, I the Pharoah who dwells there...

 

Whatever .... seems a narrowed experience to me . 

 

 

And the list goes on.  The world is chock full of work geared towards making incomplete, unhappy and aimless people feel less this way.

 

The awakened individual cannot particpate in this anymore.  The need is gone, the passion gone. 

 

As I said, they can help ....  have you never encountered the concept of Bodhisattva  ? 

 

So how does he particpate?

 

According to his 'calling'   (  'Tzujan'   ?  )

 

 

 I teaching the only course open?

 

 

 

if that means you are teaching the only course open  ???  ... You should brush up on language and communication skills first. 

Edited April 15, 2016 by Nungali

[Old River]

What ?  The 'enlightened' are too good to work and be in society ?  or some other reason they should not partake ?  or they could be a teacher of something . 

 

On modern day Chinese hermits:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-2875587/Chinas-mountain-hermits-seek-highway-heaven.html

 

"The wise man knows that it is better to sit on the banks of a remote mountain stream than to be emperor of the whole world." ~ Zhuang Zi

Edited April 15, 2016 by Old River

[Old River]

Oh, and I meant to add:

 

 

Great documentary.

[Marblehead]

Oh, and I meant to add:

 

 

 

Great documentary.

I didn't watch it all but I got the picture.

[blue eyed snake]

I saw a Sufi 'brick maker' being interviewed, not only did he make the bricks from raw natural material nearby he stacked them together to make buildings ' no  written or drawn plans, he made it up as he went along, according to what he knew of the family and the people who the house was for ... he sort of 'channelled' the building  and the managing of the building process.  people didnt even tel him what design to build, he just knew and they were happy with what he did, he built  just about all the buildings in the village.   The whole village was a beautiful harmonious work of art ....   so he even had 'urban design' going on his head when he built, so all of his structures fitted togther. 

 

I like that! You just do what you're doing, only much better.

[Nungali]

On modern day Chinese hermits:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-2875587/Chinas-mountain-hermits-seek-highway-heaven.html

 

"The wise man knows that it is better to sit on the banks of a remote mountain stream than to be emperor of the whole world." ~ Zhuang Zi

 

 

Well yes,   anything would be better than being Emperor of the world .....   sounds horrible  ! I would not even consider an upgrade at work, knocked back the offer to run my own department (as I was told, I could make a lot of money ... and as I knew , meant more stress and work and less time at the river ) ....  never taken a grading nor claimed a belt in MA , ... anything to get away from admin and bureaucracy ...  And I live  near the banks of a remote mountain stream , often I will go and sit there and just .... 'be'. 

 

But I think there is a subtle message in there .   I dont think one , sage or not, should spend their whole life doing that . ...  just sitting there and being 'wise'. 

 

... you know .... 'the Sage'  is a show ,  like a movie character .... the  image is held up as the way to be, but we only see part of it ... the sage has to find food, clothing shelter,  wash his cloths and crap like the rest of us ....  unless he ropes some undertow into being being his sub.   

Edited April 16, 2016 by Nungali

[Old River]

Well yes,   anything would be better than being Emperor of the world .....   sounds horrible  ! I would not even consider an upgrade at work, knocked back the offer to run my own department (as I was told, I could make a lot of money ... and as I knew , meant more stress and work and less time at the river ) ....  never taken a grading nor claimed a belt in MA , ... anything to get away from admin and bureaucracy ...  And I live  near the banks of a remote mountain stream , often I will go and sit there and just .... 'be'. 

 

But I think there is a subtle message in there .   I dont think one , sage or not, should spend their whole life doing that . ...  just sitting there and being 'wise'. 

 

... you know .... 'the Sage'  is a show ,  like a movie character .... the  image is held up as the way to be, but we only see part of it ... the sage has to find food, clothing shelter,  wash his cloths and crap like the rest of us ....  unless he ropes some undertow into being being his sub.   

 

True, though I doubt any of the folks in that article or the video would call themselves "sages."  But even hermits (who only live in near isolation) have their own gentle influence on the world (I think of Ryokan, playing with the children, feeding animals, helping passersby).  Perhaps such virtues aren't published for all the world to see, but they have their place in the world, which is sufficient.  Many of the first Daoist practitioners withdrew themselves from society as far as they could, but they were hardly misanthropes (nor all of them sages I'm sure).  

 

All that said, society is highly overrated.  There's nothing wrong with keeping those social ties to a comfortable minimum where possible.  In a society run almost entirely by extroversion and gregariousness, a little more solitude in the world wouldn't do it any harm.