What is the Taoist way of life?

[Veezel]

Newbie here...

 

In Christianity, it's all about avoiding sin and being faithful to Jesus.

 

But what is it with Taoism? I want to learn more.

 

 

 

Thanks in advance.

[Marblehead]

In Taoism it's to be like the innocent child and being faithful to our self.

 

To be the uncarved block.  Being capable of being carved into anything but yet not allowing anyone to carve upon us.

 

To be natural:  eat when hungry and sleep when tired.

 

Just understanding the above is only the beginning.  How to get to that state is the beginning of the path of Taoism.

[Old River]

You can see the basic principle of Daoism in the so-called Chinese finger trap: the harder you pull on it, the more difficult you make matters-- you won't be able to pull your fingers out that way. Instead of forcing your way out of the finger trap, you have to gently wiggle your way out-- a counter-intuitive action.

 

Broadly speaking, without getting bogged down too much in jargon, Daoism's essence is a matter of trusting *this* moment. This is something we tend not to do, for a variety of reasons-- but primarily it has to do with our (mis-)perception of the world and the inter-relationship between ourselves and everything else. We erronously see ourselves as independently existing entities, even though everything rises and falls in a vast network of interdependence. Implicit in this idea is a "me against the world" attitude which leads us to exert all kinds of force to control our daily environment-- which only gets us stuck, just like the Chinese finger trap. There are reasons why this sense false sense of separation arise, which I won't get into here!

 

Dao, being "the way things are," points to a way of being which "precedes" (I don't mean chronologically) this distrust-- a kind of fundamental innocence of existence prior to all conceptualizing (that would include everything I'm writing in this post!)

 

Daoism consists of a variety of approaches in order to realize our own fundamental place in the greater whole so as to work *with* the whole rather than against it. In doing so we will also realize our own unique individual nature, but integrated now organically with the world, rather than as something separate.

 

This is a VERY broad summary obviously, and their are a variety of understandings and applications which open many other cans of worms. But all of the above mentioned principles can be found in the Dao De Jing (or Tao Te Ching -- these are just different Romanised transliterations of the classical Chinese). Zhuang Zi (or Chuang Tzu) is another early text, but probably not as good for beginners-- but he's excellent textual resource as well.

 

I hope this helps, and good luck!

[gendao]

In Christianity, it's all about avoiding sin and being faithful to Jesus.

 

But what is it with Taoism? I want to learn more.

Lol, well Christianity focuses a lot on the Hero dramatically seeking Atonement with the Father...whereas Daoism sort of picks up where that leaves off into the latter stages of the universal quest for "Lifenlightenment" (life/命/Tree of Life + enlightenment/性/Tree of Knowledge).

Similar to an idealized, "utopian," Edenic paradise before "the Fall," Daoism seeks a spiraled "return" to our original "True Nature" (which already exists and thus just must be unblocked, not created). Our True Nature and "Self" is perfect - by nature.

 

The arguable differences are that Daoism is more DIY to rediscover our own Nature, rather than requiring some middleman to overcome our Nature.

Edited April 16, 2016 by gendao

[Wu Ming Jen]

The Taoist way is your way. Our true nature is divine so no worries with being a sinner or a God that only likes certain groups of humans. Freedom!

[silent thunder]

Water flows downhill.

[Bindi]

Is the aim of daoism also the aim of neidan? 

 

If daoism is a 'spiralled return to our original True Nature', is the golden/immortal body considered our true nature? Or is it a different aim completely? 

[gendao]

Is the aim of daoism also the aim of neidan? 

 

If daoism is a 'spiralled return to our original True Nature', is the golden/immortal body considered our true nature? Or is it a different aim completely? 

Neidan is a pseudo-reversal (UNdoing) of the normal chronology of life to become more childlike and Pre-Heavenly...and attain the last stage of the Campbellian Journey - freedom to live beyond all duality/polarity as a master of 2 worlds.  And it requires nothing other than what we already have inside - our own true Nature.

But obviously this is just my loose interpretation - and is certainly open for debate!

[Geof Nanto]

Is the aim of daoism also the aim of neidan? 

 

If daoism is a 'spiralled return to our original True Nature', is the golden/immortal body considered our true nature? Or is it a different aim completely? 

 

Louis Komjathy makes a clear distinction between these two types of Daoist cultivation. What you have labelled 'spiralled return to our original True Nature' he calls the “quietistic” model, and attainment of the 'golden/immortal body' he calls the “alchemical” model......  

 

 

As a thorough and detailed account of these various models is beyond the scope of the present discussion, I will here simply make a few comments on differences between the “quietistic” and “alchemical” models. The quietistic model is most clearly expressed in classical Daoism, or the early “inner cultivation lineages” as Harold Roth of Brown University has referred to this moment in Daoist history. Representative texts include the Daode jing, Zhuangzi, and “Techniques of the Heart-mind” chapters of the Guanzi. The alchemical model is advocated and employed both in early medieval external alchemy traditions and in late medieval internal alchemy lineages. Representative texts of the latter include those associated with the so-called Zhong-Lü textual tradition.

 

In the quietistic model, the adept endeavors to “return to” his or her original nature, which is a manifestation of the Dao. Emphasis is placed on “nonaction” (wuwei 無為), “simplicity” (pu 朴), and “suchness” (ziran 自然). Here death is part of the natural, cosmological process, and the adept accepts his or her death as a dissolution into—a merging with—the cosmos. In the alchemical model, the adept endeavors to perfect or transform his or her nature, which is simultaneously “biological” limitation and the latent spark of Perfection. Emphasis is placed on cultivation, refinement, and transformation. Here death as dissolution is the destiny of the ordinary human being, but the aspiring adept wishes to transcend such a given. The alchemist attempts to alchemically transmute defilements and to actualize a transcendent spirit, which may transcend physical mortality. One aspires to move from ordinary human being to perfected and immortal being.

 

For some, the question of the complementarity or mutual exclusivity of the alchemical model and the quietistic model may seem irrelevant or a mere academic exercise, but this is not the case. Leaving aside the importance of examining the ways in which seemingly competing models were reconciled and modified, the adoption of a particular model matters in terms of both Daoist practice and Daoist soteriology. If the principles and methods of the alchemical model are followed, then the Daoist adept must transform his or her self. The Daoist practitioner must literally shift ontological conditions, must become a different kind of being. One is no longer merely human (ren 人); one becomes immortal (xian 仙) or perfected (zhen 真). What exactly this means remains open to debate and differs from movement to movement, and often from practitioner to practitioner. However, what is clear is that one must become other than what one is when one begins the alchemical process.

 

This is not the case in the quietistic model. From the beginning, one is “perfect” or “complete.” There is nothing to perfect or complete; one must simply return to one’s original connection with the Dao, one’s original place in the cosmos. That is, the quietistic model emphasizes “decreasing” and “sufficiency.” Here the Daoist adept is not trying to become something else or something more. The upshot is the following: either one learns more, does more, and becomes more, or one unlearns, undoes, and simply is. These are different practice regimens with different outcomes. In the alchemical model, one seeks personal survival and transformation; in the quietistic model, one merges with and disappears into the cosmos.

 

 

Edit: The above is an extract from Komjathy’s Models of Daoist Practice and Attainment. For the full text,  in which he outlines the diversity of models of Daoist practice and attainment, see…. http://www.daoistcenter.org/models.pdf

 

(BTW Although I find the clarity of Komjathy’s discussion helpful, I’d add the proviso that when it comes to the diversity of Daoism there’s no such thing as a definitive overview. That applies especially to so-called “models of attainment”. Here meaningful insight requires many years of real experience and for all his excellent research and knowledge, in these terms Komjathy is a relative beginner.

 

However, in answer to Veezel's original question - "What is the Taoist way of life?" -  for a comprehensive overview I would not hesitate to recommend Komjathy's The Daoist Tradition. It is an excellent and thorough introduction.) 

Edited April 17, 2016 by Yueya

[roger]

Veezel,

 

That's a great question in my opinion, and I don't claim to have a definitive answer, but I'll share my perspective.

 

Simplicity is a major idea in Taoism. Keep things simple, this can help with confusion and certain difficulties, and is important for solving problems. Don't look for a complicated solution.

 

A simple idea of Taoism is to just live, just be, don't make a big deal out of everything and just enjoy your life.

 

Another thing is to trust in the Tao, the Source of all things, you can have faith in its provision for your life and allow it to guide and support you.

 

Two good books to read are, obviously the Tao Te Ching, and Benjamin Hoff's The Tao of Pooh. Hoff also wrote The Te of Piglet but I haven't read it, I imagine it's good though because The Tao of Pooh is amazing.

[dawei]

Anciently, Dao meant 'path'.

 

What is your path? 

 

Do you find you naturally follow it, question it or just pose questions?

 

[Marblehead]

I have no Path but there is a Marble Way.

[blue eyed snake]

and I'm slithering through the underbrush,

and maybe treading the golden brick road 

 

meaning there are many paths, to each there own,  but in essence all those individual paths are Dao, as Dawei  points out.

 

some people search for their path, others just find they are treading a path they didn't consciously choose

[silent thunder]

No matter which way you pass, you stem from and return to source.  Relax and be, or struggle and attain. 

No right or wrong.

 

There is no being lost, or broken, nothing is ever wasted... there exists no one correct path.

 

Look, touch and taste.  Listen and hear.  Be.  Let your mind wander, fill it with knowledge, or pass your days sitting on the grass with an empty head, or build an empire.  Which is correct?

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

 

The daoist way of life is to adhere to the Dao.

 

To adhere to the Dao is to remain close to one's ultimate nature.

 

To remain close to one's ultimate nature is to be original and unconditioned.

 

To be original and unconditioned is to identify with nothing.

 

Identifying with nothing, is one any longer a daoist?

 

 

on edit: changed " be" to "remain" in line three. Also changed "When one identifies" to "Identifying" in final line.

 

...

Edited April 19, 2016 by Captain Mar-Vell