Shen/Silence Came First?

[MooNiNite]

What came first, silence or shen?

Edited April 18, 2016 by MooNiNite

[Bearded Dragon]

Does the ocean bring the waves?

 

Or do the waves bring the ocean?

[ChiForce]

Both....because even silence itself is still conceptual.

[silent thunder]

hmm, fun question...

 

not that it matters... but that's definitely a fun bone to chew on.

[vonkrankenhaus]

Silence persisted until there were ears.

 

Spirit is just expanded matter.

 

And matter is just condensed spirit.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

Shen is only one aspect of the human mind, it is not the entirety of the mind.

Be aware that Shen exists along with the five other aspects of the soul, including Zhi, Jing, Hun, and Po.   The Ling spirit also exists and ties it all together.   

In the context of Daoism, Shen is the last thing to enter the body before birth.  Jing is developed first, then Qi, and finally, Shen/consciousness enters the body shortly before birth.

 

To paraphrase Lingbao Jing:

first there was great nothingness, then from great nothingness was born great quiet, from great quiet was born great emptiness, and from great emptiness was born its true character.  Its true character is like an ovum, and is the "turbid clear" nature of yin and yang. 

 

So nothingness first, then quiet, then emptiness, then somethingness in that order 

[MooNiNite]

Shen is only one aspect of the human mind, it is not the entirety of the mind.

Be aware that Shen exists along with the five other aspects of the soul, including Zhi, Jing, Hun, and Po.   The Ling spirit also exists and ties it all together.   

In the context of Daoism, Shen is the last thing to enter the body before birth.  Jing is developed first, then Qi, and finally, Shen/consciousness enters the body shortly before birth.

 

To paraphrase Lingbao Jing:

first there was great nothingness, then from great nothingness was born great quiet, from great quiet was born great emptiness, and from great emptiness was born its true character.  Its true character is like an ovum, and is the "turbid clear" nature of yin and yang. 

 

So nothingness first, then quiet, then emptiness, then somethingness in that order 

can you recommend any reading material?

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

sure, also I made a mistake:

the five spirits are: yi (earth), shen (fire), jing (water), hun (wood), po (metal).

 

 

I think probably Fabrizio's translation of "cantong qi" would be a good place to start.

In regard to other translated work, I mostly don't pay attention to it, since the relative quality of translation and annotation is fairly low in the western Daoist academy.  I prefer reading them in their original text.

I suppose also the Michael Sasso's books must be quite informative, as well as perhaps Komarjthy, although I find their over reliance on religious absolutism to be somewhat problematic.   I don't know if Livia has written anything on the subject, but I would say among writers on Daoism in English, Livia is probably historically the most accurate and generally open minded.