When you do things that you like, are you aligned with Tao?

[Veezel]

When you do things that you like, are you aligned with Tao?

 

Or are you violating Tao by giving in to worldly desires?

 

 

 

I ask because I like lifting weights. I always push my body to the limits, and I wanna know if pushing my body to the limit is in direct violation of Tao.

[idquest]

I'd say it comes down to difference between monkey mind and the heart mind. If a desire comes from your monkey mind, it is perhaps not the one you'd want to follow. With your example of lifting weight - if you want this to develop six pack, then perhaps it is not a true desire. But if you want to do this because you feel that this will help keep your body healthy - this is different.

[idiot_stimpy]

Aligned with your ego, but there is nothing wrong with that.

[RiverSnake]

The Tao is not a father figure in the sky labeling things as good and bad. That is what most religious seems to be nowadays. You are part of the Tao. Be true to your own Nature and you will flow in harmony with the Way.

Edited April 21, 2016 by OldChi

[Old River]

When you do things that you like, are you aligned with Tao?

 

Or are you violating Tao by giving in to worldly desires?

 

 

 

I ask because I like lifting weights. I always push my body to the limits, and I wanna know if pushing my body to the limit is in direct violation of Tao.

 

Dao can't be "violated" -- it isn't like a god with a list of commandments that can be violated.  Sin and guilt don't play a role in Daoism, so I wouldn't worry about it -- certainly not in the way you're framing it.

 

Exercise and martial arts play a big role in much Daoist practice.  These exercises operate on a different principle (i.e. not brute strength), but I don't think there is anything "wrong" in itself with lifting weights. 

[silent thunder]

I find one of the universe's impossibilities is to ever, for even a fraction of a millisecond, be separated from tao... ever.

[Nikolai1]

When you do things that you like, are you aligned with Tao?

 

Or are you violating Tao by giving in to worldly desires?

 

 

 

I ask because I like lifting weights. I always push my body to the limits, and I wanna know if pushing my body to the limit is in direct violation of Tao.

I think a major distinction is those desires that are direct and authentic, and those that are learned.

 

For example, we may imagine that we like something, like sports cars, but what we actually like is the thought of ourselves as the kind of person who drives a sports car.  We may not love the sports car dirrectly and in itself, but we imagine that with the sports car we will get love and approval.

 

One person will love weight-lifting because of the direct energetic impact inside their body.  Another will love weight-lifting because it gives them a certain body, and this body willl attract a certain type of female, and with this female on our arm we will get the respect and the admiration of others.  And the woman and the sports car as a combo will get me loads of this.

 

So, yes, there is a kind of spectrum.  As we develop we find that we shed more and more the inauthentic desires and are left with those that are closest to our essential nature.  This process, by the way, is not easy.  We come to see that our friends and our work may be based on desires that are inauthentic.  Our motivation is withdrawn from all these structures that make up our lives and the changes that come about can be very scary.

 

It is a real challenge to actually know what it is WE, as individuals, actually like to do.  And it can come as a surprise when we realise just how inauthentic so many of our desires were.

 

Many people are incapable of going through this process of individuation.  They aren't ready yet, not in this lifetime.  Their pleasures will be provided entirely be the cultural milieu they find themselves in.  Whatever song is topping the charts will be the song they like the most.  Whatever job their dad did will be a perfectly good  job for them.  Whatever beer his mates drink will be the perfect beer for him.  

 

This is the herd man, and he may pass his entire life without hearing the clarion call for Self.  And he'll be entirely content, and his contentedness will be of the Tao.  But he will not be aware of that, he will not be conscious, and he will not know the pleasure of ownership. The pleasure of being the author and the creator of his life.

[Sebastian]

I think the easy answer to the thread title is yes, if it's natural, and no if you are indulging in something you like but with excess.

 

Wu-wei, as I understand it, is doing nothing extra. Each of us has a pre-disposition to like and enjoy certain things.

 

I think that's fine. Just notice when you went overboard doing something and adjust accordingly.

 

Lifting weights, as I understand it in terms of body building, you need to push your muscles to their limit for them to break down and grow the next day right ?

 

So I would look for that natural limit where you see gains the next day. Pushing them to their breaking point beyond what's sensible just to see how far you could go would be excess imho.

 

Hope this helps

[gendao]

Aligned with your ego, but there is nothing wrong with that.

Following your own Nature sounds simple...the problem is FINDING your true Nature first!

 

 

And as far as physical bodywork, just a hint - but flexibility, suppleness, openness, etc are FAR more important for the Daoist internal arts than bodybuilding...

[liminal_luke]

As several bums have pointed out, it´s impossible to be separated from the Dao.  Let me suggest a different framework: when you are involved in X activity (lifting weights or whatever), are you aligned with your own highest good?

Edited April 21, 2016 by liminal_luke

[RiverSnake]

A blockage in ones chi channels is still part of the channels.

Edited April 21, 2016 by OldChi

[Spotless]

We all do what we "like" even when we don't like it - we live our proclivities and we live out agreements we have for unfolding - even the most retched of them. We gnash, trash and burn completely in accordance with the harmonies of the play. It is harsh and hell and yet it flitters at the same time in light.

 

Big treads bear down upon us according to our frequencies - repeatedly and again and again.

 

If we open to this repetition and begin to back off of our positions, our willfulness and our inner circle jerk - this is stepping into the path.

 

Taking care of the body is like eating - it is good and necessary - and it is so much more than a "body".

 

When we begin to lay aside the whips we use upon our physical plane and stop pushing our bodies face into the shit it has just taken in an area "we didn't want it to" - when we begin to not treat it like a dog we beat and kick - but rather as a prized companion and the extremely exquisite portal that it is - we are steeping onto the path.

 

When we begin to become sick of our positions, our steadfast resolution, our rock solid walls - then we are stepping onto the lighted path.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Spotless

[Kar3n]

I'd say the TTC addresses this nicely...

 

CHAPTER 12

The five colours blind the eye.

The five tones deafen the ear.

The five flavours dull the taste.

For having in excess, dulls the senses.

When the senses are dulled, men look for more stimulation.

Racing and hunting fever the mind.

Precious things cause greed to arise in Men’s hearts.

Therefore the Sage is guided by what he feels, and

not by what he sees.

He lets go of that and chooses this.

[Silent Answers]

Enjoying the experience is a large part of It, there's no violating of Dao.

 

Just don't go violating your own little nook by over doing it. Lift a reasonable amount to achieve peak performance.

[Josama]

It depends what you understand under 'like'. Some masters use the term 'like' instead of 'clinging'. However, I found that you also like something without being attached. The only way really to tell is how you feel during the activity and after. If you are aligned with the Tao during an activity you will find that your mind clears up, time is forgotten, you don't feel exhausted, there is happiness and serenity.

 

Contrary, if you indulge in activity you are attached to, there is a lot of anxiety involved. It may make you feel alert during the activity, in an adrenaline kind of way, but after you are finished you will feel drained in a bad.

[Nikolai1]

It depends what you understand under 'like'. Some masters use the term 'like' instead of 'clinging'. However, I found that you also like something without being attached. The only way really to tell is how you feel during the activity and after. If you are aligned with the Tao during an activity you will find that your mind clears up, time is forgotten, you don't feel exhausted, there is happiness and serenity. Contrary, if you indulge in activity you are attached to, there is a lot of anxiety involved. It may make you feel alert during the activity, in an adrenaline kind of way, but after you are finished you will feel drained in a bad.

Really good points here!

 

I think the difficulty is being able to tell if an activity makes you feel good or bad.  It sounds like it should be so obvious but it isn't.  To even make this judgement we must listen to our selves in a way that must be learned for ourselves.  In personal experience, it is an energetic thing and requires sensitivity to subtle energetic responses.

 

For those who don't have a practice, there is no way of checking in on themselves. There is no 'in' to check in on.  All there is, is convention, so the question is:

 

Is this behaviour or activity sanctioned by those around me or not? Do others enjoy themselves when they do it, and are they gratified by the sight of me doing it?

 

If yes, we may continue to partake in something that is actually not bringing us pleasure.  But we have no reason to suppose it isn't.

 

This is why practice can disorientate us so much.  Not only do we lose the taste for things we thought we enjoyed, but our abstinence seems to pass judgement on those we used to share the pleasure with.  This can make those around us very uncomfortable.  Perhaps it makes them question themselves in ways they aren't ready for.

[thelerner]

What helps me stay aligned with the Tao..?

 

Not thinking too much

 

If weight lifting is your thing.  A healthy inner drive.  Don't let cultural baggage drag you down.  Taoism isn't about doing what monks did in 600 AD.  Or a set of do's and don'ts.   Unless your a religious Taoist, then it kinda is.

Edited April 27, 2016 by thelerner

[Aetherous]

Being "in your element" makes you one with the Dao. Doing things that you like means you're in your element in that moment. But what about in the moment when you're doing something you don't like? Why can't you be in your element then, too?

[RiverSnake]

A word on good behavior from our sponsor Shiva. 

 

[dwai]

When you do things that you like, are you aligned with Tao?

 

Or are you violating Tao by giving in to worldly desires?

 

 

 

I ask because I like lifting weights. I always push my body to the limits, and I wanna know if pushing my body to the limit is in direct violation of Tao.

When doing is not doing, then it is aligned with Dao. The doing manifests on its own. The circumstances that led you to action also manifest on their own. We will know when something is aligned with Dao or not. It's only about being able to "feel" the alignment (or misalignment). It is hard to articulate

[blue eyed snake]

remember when you were a kid, say 5 to 7 years old and playing you're favorite play.

 

For me that was playing with sand, or doing hide and seek, climbing a tree, being an 'indian" and the other kid the ' cowboy'  totally absorbed in your play, that ( to me) is being aligned with the Dao.

 

for kids, playing is ' work' to me it feels like finding back that quality of being that I had as a kid playing, while I do the dishes, fold clothing, do my chores. 

 

At the moment I can't but for instance gardening can be quite easily be like play for me