Vegetarianism and the Spiritual Path

[juliank]

Hi Bums,

 

Something inside is calling in vegetarianism into life.

 

This idea has been growing in consciousness for some time, and now it's time to act on it.

 

I would like to hear first hand accounts from Bums who have made this shift and how it has effected their spiritual practice, subtle body energetics, meditation capacity, stillness, or ability to channel and perceive qi/prana shakti.

 

I am not interested in a discussion about physical health or animal rights.

 

I am only interested in hearing the subjective experiences and stories of it's impact on people's spiritual and energetic life.

 

Looking forward to hearing your always valuable insights

Edited April 24, 2016 by juliank

[dust]

The true spiritual benefit was the earlier mental change that allowed me to admit that there was no benefit in eating animals.

 

 

In other words, the kind of benefits you speak of come not because of any direct affects of not eating meat, but are the result of a prior spiritual change.

 

Ignoring the physical health aspect... one doesn't give up meat for their own benefit, but for the benefit of others.

[C T]

If its calling, then follow. There is a natural pattern to abstinence, in fact, all forms of abstinence has a natural pattern. There ought not to be any contrivance, otherwise, as its often the case, the opposite effect is caused. Then a lot of time and energy goes wasted, even though the aim was itself noble. 

[RiverSnake]

I've been a vegetarian for extended periods of time and also eaten meat for extended periods of time. Both paths have there utility. Vegetarian diets help you be lighter energetically, psychically more sensitive and also are easier on the digestive system (generally, unless you eat grains/lots of carbs). Supposedly you also generate less karma on a vegetarian diet...that being said you need karma to stay alive. Thankfully most of us are well supplied.

 

Eating meat is important for staying heavy and grounded, if your overly psychic and don't know how to handle it this can be beneficial. That way you won't get bulldozed by every bit of psychic dirt that hits you. If your doing intense physical exercise meat supplies much needed energy that is much more difficult to get from a vegetarian diet. Meat among other foods can be a valuable source of Jing for cultivation and healing.

 

My practice has gone in cycles, sometimes being vegetarian sometimes not. People are different, and go through periods where they need different things. Observe your results and come to your own conclusions.

Edited April 24, 2016 by OldChi

[rainbowvein]

I became a vegetarian shortly after high school. Then started incorporating seafood back in to my diet. I find this works for me. This was many years before formalizing any spiritual path.

 

Sometimes a formal spiritual path comes before preferences shift. Sometimes the formless energies direct one to formed changes, then formal cultivation practices are sought.

 

Vegetarianism can make one feel lighter, softer. Sometimes this is experienced as a spaced-out feeling, or lack of interest in mainstream concerns (news media, consumerism, goals of much of society). The technical explanation is that reducing/eliminating meat consumption allows the chi to rise to the head.

[vonkrankenhaus]

The thing that made a difference to me personally was attaining a deeper perception into this issue than ideas like "vegetarian" or "meat-eater" were designed to contain.

 

There is no human tradition of total vegetarianism to be found anywhere on Earth above 40 degrees latitude.

 

All major religions came from much nearer to the equator.

 

See what can be made of that.

 

Teeth of the human being are evidence of what has been eaten during evolution.

 

Human has very tiny canines, and flat molars.

 

Dog has huge canines and molars are not flat.

 

And entire digestive system is also evidence.

 

Plant-eater animal has alkaline saliva.

 

Meat-eater animal has acid saliva.

 

Human has alkaline saliva.

 

And so forth.

 

All of this is worth studying, because terms like "vegetarian" are just empty designations from a fake culture.

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

(edited to correct "canines")

Edited April 26, 2016 by vonkrankenhaus

[Nikolai1]

Interesting although you got the incisor thing the wrong way round!

[doc benway]

Hi Bums,

 

Something inside is calling in vegetarianism into life.

 

This idea has been growing in consciousness for some time, and now it's time to act on it.

 

I would like to hear first hand accounts from Bums who have made this shift and how it has effected their spiritual practice, subtle body energetics, meditation capacity, stillness, or ability to channel and perceive qi/prana shakti.

 

I am not interested in a discussion about physical health or animal rights.

 

I am only interested in hearing the subjective experiences and stories of it's impact on people's spiritual and energetic life.

 

Looking forward to hearing your always valuable insights

 

I returned home from a week of silence and meditation about 2 years ago and asked my wife if she'd consider a vegetarian lifestyle. She immediately said yes and that was that. I will occasionally eat meat, she never does. If my wife cooks it when our children visit, I will generally partake out of respect for the life that was sacrificed. If I feel a need for it, I will eat it - maybe once or twice a year. I do my best to make sure it comes from a source where the animal has been humanely treated. 

 

I'm unable to separate a discussion of the benefits of this from my feelings about animal rights as the two are inextricably related for me. My choice not to eat animals supports and arose from my choice to live a life of awareness, caring, and warmth to other living things. My spiritual and energetic life are not separate from this. My practice has continued to deepen and stabilize in all aspects - spiritual, energetic, physical, emotional - since making this change. Whether that is a consequence of not eating animals or whether sparing the lives of animals is a consequence of the natural development of my practice is impossible to say and irrelevant for me.

 

For me the two have occurred hand in hand and I think that, in general, as our spiritual lives awaken, our awareness awakes. As that happens we will see changes in our lives, particularly where they intersect the lives of other beings. 

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"Interesting although you got the incisor thing the wrong way round!"

-----

 

Not so.

 

What I got reversed was that I wrote "incisor" when I meant to write "canine".

 

Here's what I wrote:

 

"Human has very tiny incisors, and flat molars."

"Dog has huge incisors and molars are not flat."

 

- meant to write "canines".

 

 

 

 

-VonOopsHaus

[Bud Jetsun]

 

With each meal purchase, a being has the choice to live in a world with more torture and murder of sentient aware beings, or less torture and murder of sentient aware beings. 

 

If ones body is composed of the energy from tortured and murdered innocent beings, it will be a material coalescence of this violence. 

 

The Dali Lama himself has not been able to escape this internal violence from his continued corpse eating rituals, and suffers inside and often lashes out at others because of it.  While it seemed impossible to quench all negative emotion in my own life while also participating in corpse eating, it's been many years no without so much as a flicker of anger since concluding such barbaric unnecessary actions. 

 

There is no religious practice on earth that will compensate for the corpse eating rituals impact towards clouding the mind in internal conflict from building ones body out of the spoils of the suffering and death of innocent beings. 

 

The universe finds equilibrium, every being on it pays back this fleeting loan of borrowed energy by the conclusion of this life.  If ones interest is to create themselves from the energy of torture and suffering, one is free to do so and instantly experiences the repercussions of this choice.

 

 

 

The best things in life are all free, and instantly there own best rewards in doing. 

 

Unlimited Love,

-Bud

[3bob]

and lets not forget the beings that eat human energy, are they barbaric to?

[RiverSnake]

and lets not forget the beings that eat human energy, are they barbaric to?

 

I believe the OP was requesting practical advice....not philosophical musings.

[dust]

I would suggest that the OP has asked for an explanation of the Bible without reference to the Old Testament. "Why did Jesus say the things he did? But I'm not interested in a discussion on religion.."

 

As steve says, the 'practical' benefits of vegetarianism on one's spiritual practice, including of meditation and energetics, cannot be separated from the physical and ethical.

 

All too often on here people ask a question in such a way that if answered directly, no help can genuinely be given.

Edited April 25, 2016 by dustybeijing

[Jetsun]

I was vegetarian when I was younger, later on in life I studied spirituality and came to realise that the process of life involves everything eating each other, in the end I will be eaten, so I now consider meat eating a natural part of the process of life. I am now more concerned about the level of human consciousness which treats poorly animals while they are alive, so try to eat meat from high welfare sources.

 

From a spiritual perspective meat is grounding, Tibetans eat a lot of meat which helps to bring them down after doing many hours of intense spiritual practice which could leave them floating around outside of their bodies. I helped make the Dalai Lama and his entourage a nice beef stew when he came to the UK last year, they insisted on beef which is probably the most dense and grounding meat. 

[C T]

Offering perspective for reflection only

 

There are vegetarian spiritual practitioners with very good hearts, and there are those with not so good hearts, who also don't have much understanding and peace even though they try their best, bless them.

 

Whatever life choices are made, ultimately its one's intention or motivation that influences action and subsequent result, and not exclusively the deed on its own. Its been said many times that a good practitioner, one with pure motive, can use poor guidance, or none at all, and still make progress, while a misdirected practitioner can employ the greatest tools and the highest teachings and still manage to reduce all of that to causes of demerit simply because at the fundamental level, the motivation was ill-directed. This is why there is much emphasis on bodhicitta on the Vajrayana path. Its the most appropriate guidance for developing mundane and supramundane inner realisation. 

 

Of course, from the Mahayana angle, the highest inner realisation is wisdom arising simultaneously with compassion. Once these two qualities are sort of in balance, achieved thru consistent practice and study, then there is almost no room for intention to be misdirected and ill motives to take root. Only then will karma from actions cease to take hold. At that point, with the rewarded freedom, craving gradually ends, and desire, aggression and confusion will naturally be pacified as part of the integrative process. At that point, whether one is vegetarian or not will no longer serve as obstacles on the path as long as motivation is kept in check. Sure there will be times when this gets knocked sideways - if this happens, the good practitioner employs certain purification practices which includes confession followed by the generation of sincere resolve to use the erroneous past action as a cause for greater awareness, thus amending the fault and gain even deeper realisation. 

 

So whatever is consumed by mind and body, and all the karmic forces and repercussions tied in to that, all of that will naturally also be either pacified (meaning will not take further root) or cause further complications - this all is born at the initial ground -this is where intention first arise, gathers momentum, gains traction, and ultimately, fruition. 

 

There are quite a number of factors to take into consideration conjoined with careful application and also lots of mindful revision takes place in order to nourish the path towards fruition, and not simply the mere practice of abstinence that moulds spiritual practice, imo. 

[Spotless]

It appears to be a natural calling at a certain point in ones practice - for a lightness and clarity of being - and this is an effect that will come from it.

 

I prefer Vegan over vegetarian but initially I started out many years ago during practice as a vegetarian which is a relatively seamless change over from regular diets.

 

I did not initiate the change for moral reasons - it was completely for energetic reasons.

 

Purchase a good B12 supplement (I use a spray B12).

 

All aspects of your energetic profile will be enhanced - including physical energy.

 

I suggest having an open casual mindset regarding this - thinking bad of yourself for breaking here and there in certain occasions or because your body asks for it is worse than the consequence of a bit here and there.

 

Very recently my body wanted all sorts of things and a fairly big increase in intake - that has subsided now but it was quite surprising until it became evident some major energetic shifts were happening (and I have had many of these but none of them ever took me all over the dietary boundaries as this one did).

 

A calmness will occur in either vegan or vegetarian - vegan is a bit lighter and cleaner.

 

Vegan also has less craving - the cheeses and yogurt products are delicious and wonderful but do add to an overall continued attachment to foods - attachments that dissipate more as a vegan.

 

The only cons for me happen on the way out - gas (which subsides somewhat) and soft to nearly diarrhea stools.

 

Energetically either of these two diets become such a strong calling because at some point it is clear that a heavy meat type diet is a dragging energetic influence. Many other dietary callings come into play over the course of practice.

 

The process of listening to your companion being body is part of practice.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Spotless

[liminal_luke]

Some say vegetarianism gives a person a peaceful nature.  If only this were true!  Discussions about the pros and cons of eating meat make for some of the most hostile, foaming-at-the-mouth, emotionally-turbulent rants to be found on Taobums.

 

Vegetarianism might have all sorts of benefits, I only wish people could talk about it without implying that those who choose differently are morally or spiritually inferior.

 

Please let me eat my meat in peace. 

Edited April 25, 2016 by liminal_luke

[C T]

Some say vegetarianism gives a person a peaceful nature.  If only this were true!  Discussions about the pros and cons of eating meat make for some of the most hostile, foaming-at-the-mouth, emotionally-turbulent rants to be found on Taobums.

 

Vegetarianism might have all sorts of benefits, I only wish people could talk about it without implying that those who choose differently are morally or spiritually inferior.

 

Please let me eat my meat in peace. 

 Ever been to a Buddhist retreat? Makes for interesting observation should one be so inclined. 

 

Once at one of these retreats the master happened to cover this very topic wrt food consumption, and then uttered something like "Adopting a vegetarian diet does not mean the end of karmic accruements cos veges too have life forces connected somehow, including sentient life as well...", which must have sounded totally sacrilegious to the anti-meat eating camp, and that same evening a handful of them left as if disgusted. They totally missed the point i guess. 

[liminal_luke]

 Ever been to a Buddhist retreat?

 

Yes, I have.  One with delicious vegetarian food by the way, though I did sneak away from the center several weeks in, hiking to a small town a few miles away to indulge in a pepperoni pizza.  What can I say: I´m a lousy Buddhist.

 

Like most vipassana retreats, this one was mostly silent.  The only talking allowed was during brief exchanges related to morning chores, questions during nightly dharma talks, and at one meeting devoted to discussing how to deal compassionately yet hygenically with the kitchen cockroach problem.  I´ll always remember the comments of one retreatant who offered to put out poison with love in her heart. 

Edited April 25, 2016 by liminal_luke

[Old River]

If the Buddha said "Be a lamp unto yourself," then it is also true to say "Don't be a lamp unto others" -- that is to say, I practice what I must, you practice what you must, right?

 

And besides, to what extent do we take vegetarianism or veganism? To be really consistent, shouldn't I not only eat non-meat/non-dairy, etc., but also make sure that all the people involved in the farming, the delivery, the grocery store, etc.? Just where do we draw the line for such dietary purity?

 

This doesn't mean therefore it shouldn't matter-- but the point is or each individual to decide what is suitable at a given point in their practice. If one of the reasons is a moral basis, then all one can do is try, within pragmatic limits, to minimize the impact on others. Once it becomes an issue of moral purity, it gets absurd, psychologically unhealthy, and also just plain unpleasant.

 

At any rate, I did go by a vegetarian diet for a year -- this wasn't too difficult since I don't eat too much meat anyway, so I felt I was already partially there (at least this is how I framed it in my mind, and it seemed to make the transition easier for me). I did primarily do it for moral reasons, but on my own. It was a private matter for myself alone (as a part of my Buddhist practice) but certainly wasn't aiming for purism, merely a modest reduction in suffering in a world of mass production and mass consumption. It was hardly a burden to me, so why not?

 

I also went almost entirely sugar-free too, going through withdrawal symptoms after a month (which lasted a month too) where I felt so tired and easily exhausted. After pushing through that, I felt much better, more energetic, and felt less need to eat. I think doing without sugar had more of a physiological impact than going vegetarian.

 

Afrer several months, that same year, I went vegan, which was far more difficult -- and it was expensive (is it any wonder that vegans tend to be more affluent?). I think I managed that for about two months. I do think I felt a lightness, and perhaps it helped my meditation more at the time as well.

 

That was in 2013 -- in early 2014, my whole life turned to total chaos for multiple reasons-- first my dad's death after a long struggle with cancer, and a lot more followed immeditately afterward, including some financial difficulties. Since then, I haven't been vegetarian or vegan. In mid-June, I'm finally moving into my own place -- with no roommate (truly, we're the odd couple, and I'm Felix!), and I'm finally getting my life back into some semblance of order again, including financially. Come July, I'm resolved to return to some lifestyle choices I made in 2013 -- going vegetarian again for sure, and eventually trying to go vegan again too.

[liminal_luke]

Unlike so many others, I´ve never had a prolonged vegetarian stint, but can nevertheless think of one possible benefit: the good that accrues whenever we decide, of our own free will, to limit ourselves in some way and then find the discipline to follow through.  Catholic or no, I think there´s wisdom in the idea of "giving something up for lent."  

 

The vogue these days seems to be celebrating endless choice.  I´m not sure that´s the path to happiness or even pleasure.  Unlimited anything -- food, money, sex -- often creates more problems than it solves.

Edited April 25, 2016 by liminal_luke

[gendao]

I was vegetarian when I was younger, later on in life I studied spirituality and came to realise that the process of life involves everything eating each other, in the end I will be eaten, so I now consider meat eating a natural part of the process of life. I am now more concerned about the level of human consciousness which treats poorly animals while they are alive, so try to eat meat from high welfare sources.

Well, if no animals ate other animals, there would be overpopulation and degeneration of each species. In nature, predators generally prey on the least fit members to cull them out of the gene pool as a form of quality control.

 

Problem with people is they eliminate this natural selection and ALL off their livestock gets INDISCRIMINATELY killed, not to mention lots of habitat too (largely for beef)!

NOT TO MENTION, in nature - predators also only get to eat prey if THEY are fit enough to catch them! But most people don't actually hunt their own food, and would probably STARVE if they had to!

Edited April 25, 2016 by gendao

[dwai]

Hi Bums,

 

Something inside is calling in vegetarianism into life.

 

This idea has been growing in consciousness for some time, and now it's time to act on it.

 

I would like to hear first hand accounts from Bums who have made this shift and how it has effected their spiritual practice, subtle body energetics, meditation capacity, stillness, or ability to channel and perceive qi/prana shakti.

 

I am not interested in a discussion about physical health or animal rights.

 

I am only interested in hearing the subjective experiences and stories of it's impact on people's spiritual and energetic life.

 

Looking forward to hearing your always valuable insights

I used to eat meat all the time. Until I met my Teacher. When he initiated me, I went through what some might call Samadhi, for several days. During this time, I lost all interest in meat. I used to feel the pain and suffering of the animals (spiritually) and the sight of meat would make me want to throw up. 

 

Since then, I started eating seafood again as my body needed. But I was unable to eat meat any more. Seafood is losing it's appeal to me and I mainly tend to gravitate towards tofu, beans etc. 

 

Meat in my experience dulls the senses and makes the body less sensitive to energetics. It also introduces mental churning. Even with Seafood, certain types are more benign in terms of negatively affecting consciousness than others. Typically bigger fish, crabs, lobsters etc tend to affect the consciousness and energetic sensitivity more than shrimps, prawns or smaller fish. Why is it? I don't know..maybe because of the inherent sentience in the creatures.

 

Similarly with other stimulants etc. I do drink once in a while and I haven't experienced any negative effect from the drink but my body seems to reject the alcohol beyond a certain point. 

 

Simple foods such as green vegetables, leafy vegetables, whole grains, tofu, water help keep the consciousness less stained by mental churning. 

[Spotless]

You will need less sleep and or it will be easier to wake up in the morning.

The heaviness sometimes experienced going to sleep is less intense and the heaviness upon getting up is less intense.

 

It is interesting to see what Bud put up - in the chart the meat eaters on the left side sleep over two thirds of the day - on the right side they sleep about one third of the day or less.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Spotless

[juliank]

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. I have been away on a Nature retreat, and came back to some wonderful dialogue!

 

I am in the stage of reducing the meat I consume because as some have mentioned, it 's become a natural outgrowth of my practice. Yes, I have had visions of the animals suffering during and after intense meditations, and I am repulsed by meat for some time after. 

 

That being said, the reason why I didn't want a thread focused on animal rights or health is because I have seen those threads on the Bums and they become long rants or flame wars.

 

When any lifestyle change is initiated within spiritual circles, I find if we focus primarily on the impact on one's practice, and authentically share stories about that exclusively, the dialogue is much more illuminating and less prone to back and forth triggering.

 

I will update as this goes along