Is man's nature violent or peaceful?

[Veezel]

Is man's nature violent or peaceful?

 

 

 

On one side, there's the Dalai Lama claiming from a book The Art of Happiness, that humanity is naturally gentle and kind.

 

On the other side are Christians telling us that we are fallen humans who are full of sin.

 

 

 

Which side is the truth? I'm confused.

[noonespecial]

Both. 

[silent thunder]

We are fluid verbs, not static nouns

 

No thing is of any one essential nature, but an abiding flow between extremes of one unity that we express as duality.

 

Given conditions will bring out attributes within the overall arching template of behaviors, depending on a person's upbringing, familial and social conditioning. 

[RiverSnake]

We are fluid verbs, not static nouns

 

No thing is of any one essential nature, but an abiding flow between extremes of one unity that we express as duality.

 

Given conditions will bring out attributes within the overall arching template of behaviors, depending on a person's upbringing, familial and social conditioning.

Yep

Edited May 12, 2016 by OldChi

[Golden Dragon Shining]

embodiment of compassion eating animal flesh, he is a fraud. flesh eating demon. man is at peace when the body is pure.

[Spotless]

Our animal nature is more pronounced than we think - it can sense and hear the frequencies of the different races and sexes from quite a distance and begins reacting to them from quite a distance. It is surprising just how much automated and un-culturated much of our raw bigotry comes from it - though it is popular to believe it is entirely the other way around. 

 

I was blindsided by this awareness and taken totally by surprise - I believed in the general and much more palatable belief that it is mostly upbringing, familial and social conditioning - it is rooted much deeper than that.

 

At the same time - I was blindsided by the awareness that takes place upon Awakening - when great masses of fear and position fall away. In time only gratitude flows - one does not feel gratitude - one becomes gratitude - it drops in tears and rests within everything. 

[Nungali]

Is man's nature violent or peaceful?

 

 

 

On one side, there's the Dalai Lama claiming from a book The Art of Happiness, that humanity is naturally gentle and kind.

 

On the other side are Christians telling us that we are fallen humans who are full of sin.

 

 

 

Which side is the truth? I'm confused.

 

 

You start off nice and peaceful until you are told you are fallen, 

 

Then its a case of whether you can transcend that or not. 

[Karl]

Mans nature is his capacity to reason-to use his mind as his tool of survival and happiness.

[Nikolai1]

 It is surprising just how much automated and un-culturated much of our raw bigotry comes from it - though it is popular to believe it is entirely the other way around. 

So true!

 

I was always of the view that racism was just learned bigotry and hated it, and judged the people who were like that and open about it.  I prided myself on not being like that.

 

One very hot day I was in a queue behind a Hasidic Jew in a dark suit and brimmed hat with long forelocks.  I became aware of the revulsion inside me - it was a very embodied nausea, like if woken by a large spider or cockroach on my face.

 

I was very surprised and quite shocked that the feeling was there.  I only hope that being conscious of deep racial fear makes me less likely to act on it.  I also wonder whether having it brought to the light has helped, as I haven't had the same experience since? 

 

I truly hope no-one is offended by me sharing this.  I think honesty on the subject helps.  

 

I imagine that the true bigot may feel what I felt, but then imagine that must be a sincere and valid reason it.  I say that we can feel the bigotry and yet still discount it and overcome it if we are honest and motivated.

[Karl]

So true!

 

I was always of the view that racism was just learned bigotry and hated it, and judged the people who were like that and open about it.  I prided myself on not being like that.

 

One very hot day I was in a queue behind a Hasidic Jew in a dark suit and brimmed hat with long forelocks.  I became aware of the revulsion inside me - it was a very embodied nausea, like if woken by a large spider or cockroach on my face.

 

I was very surprised and quite shocked that the feeling was there.  I only hope that being conscious of deep racial fear makes me less likely to act on it.  I also wonder whether having it brought to the light has helped, as I haven't had the same experience since? 

 

I truly hope no-one is offended by me sharing this.  I think honesty on the subject helps.  

 

I imagine that the true bigot may feel what I felt, but then imagine that must be a sincere and valid reason it.  I say that we can feel the bigotry and yet still discount it and overcome it if we are honest and motivated.

 

That was just a natural reaction to someone that had a sufficiently different culture to yourself to put you on alert. Did you think 'I am superior to this man because my race is superior and therefore he should not be here, next to me" or "Jews are responsible for all the evil in the world ...etc etc ) that's how racists think.

[Nikolai1]

That was just a natural reaction to someone that had a sufficiently different culture to yourself to put you on alert. Did you think 'I am superior to this man because my race is superior and therefore he should not be here, next to me" or "Jews are responsible for all the evil in the world ...etc etc ) that's how racists think.

Yes the cultural difference was symbolised by our dress.  I would have been in T-shirt and shorts.  He was in a black suit and thick hat.

 

My thoughts? Probably very simple judgements - here's a bad and wrong human being.  But I was clearly in a very present state of mind and I was probably more interested and occupied by my own bigotry.

 

But I'm now interested in spotless' basic point: that we can sense racial difference and our bodies respond to it.

[Karl]

Yes the cultural difference was symbolised by our dress.  I would have been in T-shirt and shorts.  He was in a black suit and thick hat.

 

My thoughts? Probably very simple judgements - here's a bad and wrong human being.  But I was clearly in a very present state of mind and I was probably more interested and occupied by my own bigotry.

 

But I'm now interested in spotless' basic point: that we can sense racial difference and our bodies respond to it.

 

Yet you didn't react with violence, you reasoned it out. Good integration :-)

[Marblehead]

I am naturally a peaceful (and solitary) person.  But please don't piss me off because even I don't like me when I'm pissed off.

[Karl]

Also when someone dresses 'tribally' they appear to be setting themselves apart. It doesn't matter if it's a top hat or a veil. We instantly begin to assess the threat of someone who dresses tribally because they might be hostile.

 

In a weird backlash we now have accusations of 'cultural appropriation' by whites who adopt the tribal looks of another culture. This is really liberal bigotry.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Karl

[Nikolai1]

 

 

In a weird backlash we now have accusations of 'cultural appropriation' by whites who adopt the tribal looks of another culture. This is really liberal bigotry.

That's a brilliant observation! 

[Karl]

Does man have a greater capacity than "man's nature"?

 

Man is defined by his nature.

 

Reason is a faculty which gives mans mind wings to fly, propellers to swim and wheels to out perform any other animal on the planet. We can build super computers, fit artificial limbs and organs, eventually terraform a planet, turn darkness to light, desert to fertile oasis, we can travel to new planets, or make the tiny its robots which will conquer diseases. We have harnessed matter itself to produce energy and can communicate effortlessly across vast distances. We can create incredible works of music, sculpture, art and written work. Our imagination is boundless and our creativity virtually limitless. We have dragged ourselves from darkness and cave in a mere tick of the clock.

 

What greater capacity does he need ?

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"Does man have a greater capacity than "man's nature"?"

-----

 

Yes.

 

"Man's nature" is determined by, and "Man" is a manifestation of, the total environment.

 

Which is much bigger than modern idea of "Man".

 

Wherein "Man" is a thing, and things are static, and have a set "nature".

 

Which is "bullshit".

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"Reason is a faculty which gives mans mind wings to fly, propellers to swim and wheels to out perform any other animal on the planet. We can build super computers, fit artificial limbs and organs, eventually terraform a planet, turn darkness to light, desert to fertile oasis, we can travel to new planets, or make the tiny its robots which will conquer diseases."

-----

 

Is it "reason" - or is it "weakness"?

 

All of the materials and methods necessary to build a "computer" have always been available.

 

400,000, 30,000, 6000 yrs ago, they were available.

 

But nobody went in that direction until very recently.

 

For most of evolution "technology" was not so developed.

 

Most of these things are like the technology of "crutches".

 

Do crutches help humans to walk?

 

Do wheelchairs?

 

What happens to our walking if we always use a wheelchair?

 

We become "modern"?

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Nikolai1]

You only have to meet a wise happy person who lives in harmony with himself and nature. This person does not develop technology.

 

Technology is the outer symbol of human neurosis.

[Aetherous]

Human nature is anything that humans are capable of. An individual's nature is what they choose throughout their life to cultivate. Everyone has buddha nature, which is the pure goodness they're capable of. Human nature without cultivation or any external influence is seen in babies.

[Spotless]

My first encounter with an awareness of racial prejudice from inborn inheritance is the following:

 

My "hearing" had reached a level in which I could hear male and female energy and it was obviously extremely interesting but then one day in the quiet of my desk as the manager of a small store where I sat by myself the following new hearing took place:

 

It was noonish and I was well settled and it was a very quiet sunny day outside - in side it was simply "ready for customers" with no need to do anything - from my desk I could see the entrance. I began hearing a sound which I did not like - very much like the sound of an instrument that consists of a stick with nubs on it and which you stroke with another stick - a sort of clicking sound.

 

I became very unsettled and was completely surprised by this and immediately began to look inward at what this was all about - at the same time I realized two customers were about to enter the door - I could only see their feet and shadows - it was clear I was reacting to them. I immediately took steps to become neutral to their energy (which happened to be something I was already adept at) though I had never done it from the standpoint of a frequency that I could hear and that had such an intense base "hate" or "kill" response.

 

As the couple entered I continued for some time becoming neutral and calming down and finding my composure - they walked slowly and mingled with the goods allowing me a fair amount of time.

 

They were a very fine couple - well dressed, pleasant and more lucid than most. It was my feeling at the time that we got along well enough and that I was contained satisfactorily.

 

Several weeks later they came back - I had no inbred reaction to them this time and they sat down to make a large single purchase.

They said "David, normally we buy the best and what you are offering is not the best - but we so enjoyed working with you that we wanted to buy from you". I was also invited to their house - a fine house with a grand piano and beautiful energy.

 

I only had one other extremely strong reaction to another race and one of lesser intensity to a localized sub portion. They each have very different sounds as do male and female.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Spotless

[Karl]

Re:

-----

"Reason is a faculty which gives mans mind wings to fly, propellers to swim and wheels to out perform any other animal on the planet. We can build super computers, fit artificial limbs and organs, eventually terraform a planet, turn darkness to light, desert to fertile oasis, we can travel to new planets, or make the tiny its robots which will conquer diseases."

-----

 

Is it "reason" - or is it "weakness"?

 

All of the materials and methods necessary to build a "computer" have always been available.

 

400,000, 30,000, 6000 yrs ago, they were available.

 

But nobody went in that direction until very recently.

 

For most of evolution "technology" was not so developed.

 

Most of these things are like the technology of "crutches".

 

Do crutches help humans to walk?

 

Do wheelchairs?

 

What happens to our walking if we always use a wheelchair?

 

We become "modern"?

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

Depends on how you define weakness ? Mans only tool of survival is his mind. He must eat, sleep, drink, keep warm, avoid damage, stay dry at a minimum. He does not have the automatic perfection of an animal, so from that perspective he is weaker. However he has immeasurably greater flexibility as a complex life form and it's flexibility which improves survival.

[Karl]

Our imagination may very well be boundless. Our creativity, limitless. However, what is the destiny of man, after the death of his bag of bones?

I postulate that there are additional capacities for man, in addition to "man's nature." Two that may be most obvious to TDB members:

"Heaven's nature" and "Tao nature".

Reason may be awe-inspiring, but can you tell me the truth of an apple?

The truth about why my mother married my father?

The truth of the big dipper constellation?

The truth of a circle?

 

 

 

There is no destination beyond death. An Apple is an Apple, a star is a star, a circle is a circle. They have attributes and natures but beyond that nothing can be said of them. An Apple can be said to have a purpose because it is a function of a tree to seed itself, but has no control of its destiny. Your Mother and Father found some commonality, some shared values, they saw it was better that they were together than apart.m

[ralis]

A reminder to some as to what humans are capable of in the name of a so called moral 'higher cause'.

 

 

[Karl]

You only have to meet a wise happy person who lives in harmony with himself and nature. This person does not develop technology.

Technology is the outer symbol of human neurosis.

 

Then you would be dead very quickly. Man is not adapted to competing with animals, living in the open, chasing prey with nothing more than his bare teeth and hands. He must make fire to heat himself, clothes to cover his body for protection and warmth, a bed on which to sleep, a spear to hunt his prey, a knife to cut his food, a container to gather water, a shelter to live under.

 

Technology isn't a neurosis, it is a necessity.