Where should I start ?

[Shad282]

So for someone who wants to start somewhere with all of this energy cultivating and manipulation.. and start feeling the energy more and cultivate and heal later on... where i should start ?

 

I do Vipassana.. can feel energy on my hands up to arms... feets up to legs... other sensation everywhere... 

 

I did Qi gong by myself.. one finger zen.. and felt the beam of chi using the finger...  also I can feel the energy pulses with my hand (like a magnetic field) if i move my awareness to there.

 

Where do you suggest i should continue.. what practices do you suggest? something maybe without visualization.. something with mindfulness and awareness if possible?

 

If you have a link to a video or suggest a book that provides  a map of energy practices.. and their levels and their use ..etc 

 

knowing there is no place here in my country that teaches anything like that...so i can only to practice by myself..  

 

Thank you !

 

With metta of love and Compassion <3

[RiverSnake]

For healing oneself and others as well as manipulating energy I have yet to find more advanced methods than Stillness-Movement and Gift of the Tao (styles of Qigong and Neigong). Check out the instructors book "A Light Warriors Guide" by Michael Lomax. If it resonates with you then pursue it. If not there are other systems of Medical Qigong out there.

Edited May 12, 2016 by OldChi

[WisteriaWinds]

Zhan Zhuang on the mat. Mindfulness the rest of the day, off the mat.

[Shad282]

For healing oneself and others as well as manipulating energy I have yet to find more advanced methods than Stillness-Movement and Gift of the Tao (styles of Qigong and Neigong). Check out the instructors book "A Light Warriors Guide" by Michael Lomax. If it resonates with you then pursue it. If not there are other systems of Medical Qigong out there.

thank you! but is there something like .. do they come in categories.. for examples.. these ith visualization, these with mindfulness.. this do this .. this for that ... ? and i will check the book !

....

 

I checked the book and it's quite expensive!!!

 

with Metta!!

Edited May 13, 2016 by Shad282

[Shad282]

Zhan Zhuang on the mat. Mindfulness the rest of the day, off the mat.

i watched a video.. different ones about the method you suggested.. but what i m finding is that it uses visualization of energy... like a ball of energy and such... which i think kinda little out of mindfulness ... but increases awareness since you are breathing slow ? ... i m trying to run from visualization because i know if i visualize something i can feel it .. like a ball.. and i want to be with something more real.. and less visualization technique.

 

Please don't take it in a wrong way.. i m not condemning any technique but i know my mind... hehe 

I m saying my words out of compassion <3

[dawei]

i watched a video.. different ones about the method you suggested.. but what i m finding is that it uses visualization of energy... like a ball of energy and such... which i think kinda little out of mindfulness ... but increases awareness since you are breathing slow ? ... i m trying to run from visualization because i know if i visualize something i can feel it .. like a ball.. and i want to be with something more real.. and less visualization technique.

 

Please don't take it in a wrong way.. i m not condemning any technique but i know my mind... hehe 

I m saying my words out of compassion <3

 

 

You're lead to something more like direct presence ? 

 

[WisteriaWinds]

i watched a video.. different ones about the method you suggested.. but what i m finding is that it uses visualization of energy... like a ball of energy and such... which i think kinda little out of mindfulness ... but increases awareness since you are breathing slow ? ... i m trying to run from visualization because i know if i visualize something i can feel it .. like a ball.. and i want to be with something more real.. and less visualization technique.

 

Please don't take it in a wrong way.. i m not condemning any technique but i know my mind... hehe

I m saying my words out of compassion <3

Very astute of you. Visualization makes the infinite finite. Your training yourself to focus on the omaginary, which is only good for magick, not awakening.

 

Put your mind in your lower dan dien, using the pressure of your downward breath to anchor your awareness. When you exhale, squeeze that point back to your spine. Don't think about it, just feel it. Consciousness on that one point, seamlessly, in and out and in and out.

 

Sitting practice can help develop the concentration big time.

[WisteriaWinds]

i watched a video.. different ones about the method you suggested.. but what i m finding is that it uses visualization of energy... like a ball of energy and such... which i think kinda little out of mindfulness ... but increases awareness since you are breathing slow ? ... i m trying to run from visualization because i know if i visualize something i can feel it .. like a ball.. and i want to be with something more real.. and less visualization technique.

 

Please don't take it in a wrong way.. i m not condemning any technique but i know my mind... hehe

I m saying my words out of compassion <3

And stand in the Wu Chi from Tai Chi. It's called that for a reason.

[Shad282]

You're lead to something more like direct presence ? 

yeah that is what i m looking for ... kind of meditative state + qi gong.... mindfulness no thoughts.. just sensations and feel the chi flowing... more feeling less visualizing and expecting, if you get what i mean.. it is like.. oneness with the chi.... in a stillness state.. rather than thinking i ll do this and then that.. and i should feel a ball now .. 

[dawei]

yeah that is what i m looking for ... kind of meditative state + qi gong.... mindfulness no thoughts.. just sensations and feel the chi flowing... more feeling less visualizing and expecting, if you get what i mean.. it is like.. oneness with the chi.... in a stillness state.. rather than thinking i ll do this and then that.. and i should feel a ball now .. 

 

 

I can sense your seeking a path and your path is good.  I'm going to connect with you and you can comment if you sense anything.   If so, you're closer to direct presence and don't need to think about meditation and qigong... you would be past that...or that may be your path still. 

 

[Shad282]

I can sense your seeking a path and your path is good.  I'm going to connect with you and you can comment if you sense anything.   If so, you're closer to direct presence and don't need to think about meditation and qigong... you would be past that...or that may be your path still. 

when is that?... when i read this.. my hands started tingling hahahaha .. maybe because i m trying to focus to sense something...at the time you posted the comment i was watching a movie.. so all my focus was on the screen but was being drawn back to consciousness and didn't lose myself into the movie and noticed the flaws in it ...

Also, i did 45 min vipassana meditation in the morning.

[Michael Sternbach]

Start where you are and work from there.

[JohnC]

Start with Zhan zhuang, then as you feel drawn move into other systems. This will give you a fantastic foundation to work with any system.

 

http://www.alquimiainterna.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/ZHAN-ZHUANG-IMAGEN-OK.jpg

 

These postures, for 30 minutes to an hour.

It will be difficult at first, and as you get tired just drop your hands then move them back up into the posture.

 

Namely, posture 5 into 2 into 3, at 30 minutes to an hour each.

 

Pay attention to the benefits and effects of each posture.

 

You can do this while watching a movie, tv, whatever... although in focused awareness is better. And practicing is better than not practicing.

 

John

[Cookie Monster]

.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Ocean Form

[Spotless]

Very astute of you. Visualization makes the infinite finite. Your training yourself to focus on the omaginary, which is only good for magick, not awakening.

Put your mind in your lower dan dien, using the pressure of your downward breath to anchor your awareness. When you exhale, squeeze that point back to your spine. Don't think about it, just feel it. Consciousness on that one point, seamlessly, in and out and in and out.

Sitting practice can help develop the concentration big time.

I would definitely not recommend "squeezing that point back to the spine" - at the very least not unless it is very clearly within the context of some specific teaching. VERY dangerous advice.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Spotless

[Spotless]

.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Spotless

[Spotless]

So for someone who wants to start somewhere with all of this energy cultivating and manipulation.. and start feeling the energy more and cultivate and heal later on... where i should start ?

 

I do Vipassana.. can feel energy on my hands up to arms... feets up to legs... other sensation everywhere...

 

I did Qi gong by myself.. one finger zen.. and felt the beam of chi using the finger... also I can feel the energy pulses with my hand (like a magnetic field) if i move my awareness to there.

 

Where do you suggest i should continue.. what practices do you suggest? something maybe without visualization.. something with mindfulness and awareness if possible?

 

If you have a link to a video or suggest a book that provides a map of energy practices.. and their levels and their use ..etc

 

knowing there is no place here in my country that teaches anything like that...so i can only to practice by myself..

 

Thank you !

 

With metta of love and Compassion <3

Where do you live?

If you have computer access you have access to teachers all over the world.

 

In a previous post it was said "Vipasanna and Qi Gong sound like a good routine" - I would agree!

 

For Qi Gong a teacher is needed or at least very much recommended - but they could easily be teleteachers - it is necessary for the teacher to see someone's movements and also to advise as practice progresses.

Do you have good computer access?

 

You already feel and possibly see energy - it would be unwise to simply amp up energies and push for kundalini etc. This is unfortunately what so many do in order to feel what you are already doing. Both Qi Gong and your meditation practice will prepare and refine the different bodies for higher energies and greater distribution within them. Many things will unfold on their own as the necessary energies and tempering sprout the awakening of centers and tremendous abilities as yet unknown to you.

 

Stay with embodiment practices such as these and what unfolds you will own as real experience. Take care to allow willfulness and rigid patterns to fall away.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Spotless

[thelerner]

Also, what do you want to develop?

Any natural affinities or attractions to any art?

There's a wide variety out there.  At there root, there's a quiet focused mind.

[Spotless]

Regarding Visulization here is a post from:

 

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/27001-opening-of-the-third-eye-and-other-byproducts-along-the-way/page-23

 

Regarding Visualization:

 

In general visualization is an extremely useful tool - for coming to understand that what you see and think has substance. It has substance or brings substance - and or it can create the tuning fork tone that will attract it.

 

Thought forms float around most everyone - many from very far in the past - they are conceptualizations/visualizations typically with some compaction.

 

Visualization is an important tool and the precursor to "knowing" in a sense.

It can be utilized in energy manipulation but it already is at all times - we are simply unaware of what the seeing of our thoughts create and what they entail.

 

Energy manipulation per se as something we learn in a class when learning visualization can be very good and it can also be very dangerous in the sense that good intentions do not make up for the fact that often we have no idea what we are really doing. Often specific energetic exercises and manipulations within our personal energetic systems are far to focused for the abilities we have and the knowledge - and if it is on others - it certainly should only be done with their permission - for the most part this should only be done with considerable training under a good teacher.

 

Our thoughts stay with us and our thought forms attract that vibration - if you really really resist something - you will attract it again and again and again until you are no longer attracting it because you no longer resist it - it is called "being beneath the wheel". You attract the wheel that is grinding you.

 

This then is not to say - "only think of daisies and rainbows" nor is it to say "hide your eyes from the horrors of humanity" and it is certainly not to give you impetus to beat yourself up for bringing things upon yourself - that is what you signed up for - few things are more heroic than to sign up for a Human life.

 

But learning to be free of resistance - to own neutrality, patience and compassion - you cannot be fully compassionate in resistance.

 

Visualization moves to seeing and knowing - it is what you already do but do not recognize it - and as you come to understand this the effort in effort diminishes to nothing - but you cannot skip to this step and own it, know it (trance won't take you to this level as an owner of it - it may appear to).

 

Practice will - conscious in-body practice.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Spotless

[de_paradise]

How about start with gettting deeper into vispassana? Why is it that when we find something that works for us we get greedy for something else?

[Shad282]

Regarding Visulization here is a post from:

 

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/27001-opening-of-the-third-eye-and-other-byproducts-along-the-way/page-23

 

Regarding Visualization:

 

In general visualization is an extremely useful tool - for coming to understand that what you see and think has substance. It has substance or brings substance - and or it can create the tuning fork tone that will attract it.

 

Thought forms float around most everyone - many from very far in the past - they are conceptualizations/visualizations typically with some compaction.

 

Visualization is an important tool and the precursor to "knowing" in a sense.

It can be utilized in energy manipulation but it already is at all times - we are simply unaware of what the seeing of our thoughts create and what they entail.

 

Energy manipulation per se as something we learn in a class when learning visualization can be very good and it can also be very dangerous in the sense that good intentions do not make up for the fact that often we have no idea what we are really doing. Often specific energetic exercises and manipulations within our personal energetic systems are far to focused for the abilities we have and the knowledge - and if it is on others - it certainly should only be done with their permission - for the most part this should only be done with considerable training under a good teacher.

 

Our thoughts stay with us and our thought forms attract that vibration - if you really really resist something - you will attract it again and again and again until you are no longer attracting it because you no longer resist it - it is called "being beneath the wheel". You attract the wheel that is grinding you.

 

This then is not to say - "only think of daisies and rainbows" nor is it to say "hide your eyes from the horrors of humanity" and it is certainly not to give you impetus to beat yourself up for bringing things upon yourself - that is what you signed up for - few things are more heroic than to sign up for a Human life.

 

But learning to be free of resistance - to own neutrality, patience and compassion - you cannot be fully compassionate in resistance.

 

Visualization moves to seeing and knowing - it is what you already do but do not recognize it - and as you come to understand this the effort in effort diminishes to nothing - but you cannot skip to this step and own it, know it (trance won't take you to this level as an owner of it - it may appear to).

 

Practice will - conscious in-body practice.

Thank you for your replies !

Well i would say concerning the visualization, it is like using the mind to get out of the mind. in other words, it is like using a thought to stop thinking and be mindful. which kinda seems not logic, because. you are depending on a thought form to help you reach a deeper state of mind and consciousness. 

visualization may help, to reach a level of awareness and mindfulness but you have to let it go if you want to go deeper.

It is like trying to swim underwater and go deep while holding to a buoy

 

also how far this visualized chi or energy manipulation is real? and actually affect others? 

[Spotless]

Thank you for your replies !

Well i would say concerning the visualization, it is like using the mind to get out of the mind. in other words, it is like using a thought to stop thinking and be mindful. which kinda seems not logic, because. you are depending on a thought form to help you reach a deeper state of mind and consciousness.

visualization may help, to reach a level of awareness and mindfulness but you have to let it go if you want to go deeper.

It is like trying to swim underwater and go deep while holding to a buoy

 

also how far this visualized chi or energy manipulation is real? and actually affect others?

 

This is a misunderstanding - a part of you is seeing all the time - but it is obscured by the mind which treasures concept not "energy".

It may treasure the concept of energy but knowing and seeing energy are very different from thinking about it.

 

As long as you are "trying" to swim under water and go deep you will not - the buoy you speak of is always at hand and at any moment you can be deep - BE very everywhere. The buoy is noise - your noise, the noise you believe in, it is "your past", "your futures" and all the stuff you are identified with - it is "your story". Nothing else is required to Awaken - zero - no meditation is required - nada.

 

Drop the addiction to "your noise".

Edited May 28, 2016 by Spotless

[RigdzinTrinley]

brother from a buddhist tantric POV you visualize all the time, and until you reach the bodhisattva grounds you are helpless, that means even if you do not want to visualize something you still do...

 

you think there is a body, thats just your imagination

 

you think there is energy, thats just your imagination also, everything we ever experience is our visualisation - till we truly get out of the box that is - till we see suchness directly

 

so the tantric teachings use that fact and just turn it towards a more accurate mental image of reality - that everything is divine

 

it is still a mental image as long as suchness is not realiyed

 

also here divine means Union of emptiness and appearance - that is what is ment by Yidam or meditational deity

 

its not a god out there but oyur own perception is actually divine perception if purified like william blake said in one of his poems (I think in his songs of innocence no?.. any blake fans?)

 

when the doors of perception are purified all appears as it is - infinite

 

 

 

btw tantric buddhism is much more deep and vast then what I said in this post, I just tried to make a point about visualisation

 

I wish you a smooth awakening brother, with some knightly adventures

Edited May 26, 2016 by RigdzinTrinley

[Shad282]

brother from a buddhist tantric POV you visualize all the time, and until you reach the bodhisattva grounds you are helpless, that means even if you do not want to visualize something you still do...

 

you think there is a body, thats just your imagination

 

you think there is energy, thats just your imagination also, everything we ever experience is our visualisation - till we truly get out of the box that is - till we see suchness directly

 

so the tantric teachings use that fact and just turn it towards a more accurate mental image of reality - that everything is divine

 

it is still a mental image as long as suchness is not realiyed

 

also here divine means Union of emptiness and appearance - that is what is ment by Yidam or meditational deity

 

its not a god out there but oyur own perception is actually divine perception if purified like william blake said in one of his poems (I think in his songs of innocence no?.. any blake fans?)

 

when the doors of perception are purified all appears as it is - infinite

 

 

 

btw tantric buddhism is much more deep and vast then what I said in this post, I just tried to make a point about visualisation

 

I wish you a smooth awakening brother, with some knightly adventures

hey,

So you are saying that nothing exist, it is all made up by the mind, even the energy that we feel on the body (during vipassana)?

thank you

[RigdzinTrinley]

nope not saying that - it doesn't exist on it's own - as a seperate static, singular thing, and also our experience is always filtered through past experience and our karmic propensities etc.

 

we have a set of glasses on that we commonly share with other humans, but these glasses are again colored by our personal experiences

 

so this energy exists conventionaly, you experience it others experience it - you can talk about it with them and it all makes sense - on this level of convention, it is incorrect from this pov to say "it does not exist"

 

yet when one starts to look deeper - what are those appearances? how do they appear? to whom do they appear? etc. then the mere conventional level of reality is discovered to be not all there is and not how it is at all

 

it is just made up by the mind and the mind itself is not a mind but clear light as the prajnaparamita sutras tell us

Edited May 27, 2016 by RigdzinTrinley