Zhuan Falun (Turning The Law Wheel)

[EnergyGem]

Hi all,

 

I've come across a fascinating book that talks about high level spiritual things from a scientific perspective. This book is intriguing as it talks about many similar things to what people in mystical states mention such as seeing into parallel dimensions and interacting with beings from other worlds etc.

 

This book is called Zhuan Falun and it is from the Buddha Law School of Cultivation however it is not Buddhism the religion or Daoism the religion, it's something more profound. It seems to me to be more of a spiritual science as many of the terms and concepts in the book are talked about in a scientific down to earth manner instead of flowery mystical prose which I found very refreshing.

 

Now here is where it gets interesting, this book talks about the following things:

 

Other Dimensions - Levels Of Dimensions spanning into the microcosm and also outwards into the macrocosm

 

The Soul - It talks about people having a Master soul and a subordinate soul which is hidden from you but is at a more advanced level then you, it states some people have more then one Subordinate soul and some are of not of the same sex as you i.e males having a female subordinate soul etc.

 

Microcosmic worlds - This concept was very far out but it talks about there being worlds within you, countless worlds. Similar to our world with life , water, animals etc. An analogy is zooming an an atom within one of your cells and realizing at that level of magnification it is just like our solar system. Then zooming into a single particle in that world and finding out it too is a vast world, apparently the level it can go onwards like this is beyond imagination.

 

Supernatural Abilities - In the book they mention that everyone has them it is just that they have atrophied. It goes into depth about this topic. Some abilities that are mentioned are precognition, retrocognition and remote vision.

 

The 3rd Eye - Talks about how at the front part of our pineal gland there is a complete structure of an eye there. Modern science calls it a vestigial eye but in the cultivation world they say this eye just naturally exists like that and it can be activated allowing one to pierce through this dimension and see other dimensions. It talks about how there are many levels to this 3rd eye and it goes into great depth about it.

 

Thoughts - This part was amazing. It talks about how a human brain is just a processing plant. How the real you is actually your soul, it's like your whole body and brain is just a vehicle and that the true commands are issued by your master soul, but this master soul is very tiny and it can switch positions while inside you and it can also expand and shrink. It can move from your brain to your heart and to other parts of your body and it is 'he' who calls the shots. Your brain is just the factory which your master soul sends his cosmic commands to which then create the forms of expression and communication we use such as speech, gestures, etc. 

 

These are just a few things that are covered but there are many many other things which blew my mind when I read it because of how it resonated with some of the mystical experiences people sometimes have, especially the multidimensional nature of reality and how all of them are hidden in our day to day perceptions of the world.

 

If this sounds interesting to anyone you can grab a copy of the book here:

 

http://falundafa.org/eng/eng/pdf/Zhuan-Falun-2018.pdf

 

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by EnergyGem
Updated book version.

[Michael Sternbach]

Interesting.

 

As it happens, I'm touching on some of these themes in my latest post here:

 

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/40620-the-origin-of-mankind/page-81#entry687550

[Seth Ananda]

There have been a lot of threads on Falun and its seriously loony leader, and its cult activities which I experienced first hand.
 

Also I think this might be better to be posted in general discussion?

[EnergyGem]

There have been a lot of threads on Falun and its seriously loony leader, and its cult activities which I experienced first hand.

 

Also I think this might be better to be posted in general discussion?

 

Actually Falun Dafa is not a cult. No money is involved, it's loosely organized and people practice via their own free will. Actually it states this clearly in Zhuan Falun:

 

 

excerpt 1:

 

"Here we’re teaching you to take the right path, and along with that, we’re teaching you the Law inside and out and encouraging you to have your own understanding of it, but it’s still up to you whether you decide to learn it. "The master leads you through the door, but cultivation is up to you. Nobody’s going to push you to cultivate. It’s up to you whether you cultivate. Or to put it another way, when you choose your own path, when you decide what you want, or when you’re trying to get something—nobody will stop you. They can only try to kindly persuade you"

 

excerpt 2:

 

"Our Falun Dafa is one of the Buddhist system’s 84,000 disciplines. It’s never been passed on to the general public before during this period of civilization, but it did once save people on a large scale in a prehistoric age. Today I’m spreading it again widely during this final period of the kalpa’s end, so it’s just extremely precious."

 

excerpt 3:

 

"I’m not saying you have to learn my Falun Dafa, but I can say that what I’m doing is sharing some principles with you. If you want to cultivate you have to commit to one discipline, or else you won’t be able to cultivate one bit. Of course, if you don’t want to cultivate we’ll leave you alone. The Law is meant to be heard by people who really cultivate."

 

 

Seth, there is ancient flower known as the udumbara flower, this flower is said to bloom only once every 3000 years. This flower is now been spotted blooming in different places around the world in this time period. They say that a flower such as this blooms only when there is a Buddha offering salvation to people on earth:

 

"The udumbara flower is said in Buddhist legend to bloom only once every 3,000 years, the last time being before the birth of Buddha. Spotted again across the world in the past 20 years or so, some say the udumbara could herald the coming of a great sage or enlightened being."

 

and:

 

According to Buddhist legend, its appearance heralds the arrival of the Holy King Who Turns the Wheel, rectifying the Dharma in the world. This King is said to accept anyone of any religious affiliation, offering salvation to all through compassion. 

 

Volume 8 of the Buddhist scripture “Huilin Phonetics and Interpretation” states: “The udumbara flower is the product of propitious and supernatural phenomena; it is a celestial flower and does not exist in the mundane world. If a Tathagata or the King of the Golden Wheel appears in the human world, this flower will appear due to his great virtue and blessings.”

 

The full article can be read here:

 

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/7250...-across-globe/

[Mudfoot]

Yeah.

 

No cult would introduce itself "hey, the practice is free but you have to listen to these nine lectures as part of the training".

 

The film where the creator of Falun Gong superimposes himself on a buddha statue does not hint at a cult, and his words that more or less everybody not practicing Falun Gong is possessed by the spirits of foxes and yellow weasels is probably a translating error.

 

Not to mention that the groups public demonstrations coincided with the end of the qigong boom.

 

But if you like the method, why not pursue it?

Edited May 26, 2016 by Mudfoot

[EnergyGem]

Mudfoot, the 9 audio lectures cover the same material that the book Zhuan Falun does. How is one to learn a high level cultivation method if it has not been imparted by a true Qi Gong master? : )

 

Where does it say he superimposes himself on a buddha statue? Are you referring to Law Bodies? If so it's not only in the school of Falun Dafa where they can develop Law Bodies but in every righteous high level cultivation method. Here is the excerpt from Zhuan Falun explaining it:

 

"Why is there a field around images of Buddhas? A lot of people can’t explain it. There are some people who say, "The field around the Buddha statue comes from monks chanting scriptures in front of it," or in other words, it’s a field that’s created by monks cultivating in front of the statue. But it doesn’t matter whether it’s monks or whoever that cultivates there, that type of energy is scattered and not directional, and the field should be evenly distributed over the floor, the ceiling, and the walls of the whole temple.

 

So why is it only the Buddha image that has such a strong field? For example, there’s usually a field on the images of Buddhas that are in remote mountains, in some cave, or carved into stone. So why is there that field? Some people explain it every which way, but still don’t come up with anything convincing. What’s going on here is that a Buddha image has the field of an Enlightened Being’s Law Body on it. The Enlightened Being’s Law Body is there, so it has energy.

 

Now let’s think about it, isn’t it true that when Shakyamuni and Bodhisattva Guanyin did their cultivations, assuming there really were such persons, weren’t they cultivators, too? People develop Law Bodies when they reach a pretty high level in Beyond-Triple-World-Law cultivation. Law Bodies are born in the elixir field area, they’re made up of Law and gong, and they manifest in other dimensions. Law Bodies have the same enormous power that the person has, but Law Bodies’ consciousness and thoughts are controlled by his principal being. But a Law Body is also a complete, independent, and real individual life in its own right, and so it can do anything on its own.

 

Law Bodies do the same things that the person’s master consciousness would like to do—exactly the same things. The person would do it the same way if he were to do it himself, and Law Bodies do it however he would. That’s what we mean by "Law Body." When I want to do something, like adjust the bodies of disciples who truly cultivate, I have my Law Bodies do it. Law Bodies manifest in other dimensions since they don’t have human bodies. And that being’s form isn’t fixed and unchanging. He can expand and shrink. Sometimes he becomes really large, so large that you can’t see his whole head, and sometimes he becomes really small, so small that he’s even smaller than a cell."

 

 

In terms of foxes and yellow weasels and other such things, it does occur in certain Qi Gong practices. Master Li hongzhi is just warning people that they should find a righteous school of cultivation and it's not only Falun Dafa that is a righteous school, there are many others but one should be on guard when choosing his school of cultivation.

 

An excerpt from Zhuan Falun from the section explaining Spirit Possession:

 

"It’s not like I won’t settle for anything but your cultivating in my Falun Dafa. Actually, you can cultivate in the discipline of your choice. But there’s an ancient saying, "No true teachings for thousands of years, better than wild heresy for one day." So you really have to know what you’re doing, and really cultivate a true teaching."

 

 

 

I'm not sure what you mean about the end of the Qi Gong boom. Before the persecution of Falun Dafa, Falun Dafa was the fastest growing and most popular qi gong practice in China's history. The only reason more people practice it in China now is because of the massive persecution that the evil Chinese government has undertaken against Falun Dafa practioners:

 

"By 1999, Falun Gong had grown to become the largest and fastest growing practice of the sort in Chinese if not world history. In just seven years since its 1992 introduction to the public, an estimated 100 million people were practicing Falun Gong." 

 

source: http://www.faluninfo.net/topic/22/

 

 

I guess most here are aware of the persecution that Falun Dafa practitioners are facing from the evil Chinese government at the moment, for those that know about it, check this information out, it's truly heinous what they are doing to these good people:

 

http://en.minghui.org/cc/1/

[Songtsan]

Their leader is pretty loony sounding, but what do I know as I never practiced it. Also, its possible that the Chinese government spread lots of false rumors to attempt to make him seem more loony.

[Jetsun]

I went to one of their art shows once, they treat their leader like a mixture of Christ and Buddha and depict him as such in their art, I found it quite strange

[EnergyGem]

Their leader is pretty loony sounding, but what do I know as I never practiced it. Also, its possible that the Chinese government spread lots of false rumors to attempt to make him seem more loony.

 

They sure do Crazy Fox Ali,

 

The CCP have a full propaganda campaign trying to undermine Dafa:

 

http://en.minghui.org/cc/9/

 

http://www.ninecommentaries.com/english-9

 

 

 

 

Jetsun, there is ancient flower known as the udumbara flower, this flower is said to bloom only once every 3000 years. This flower is now been spotted blooming in different places around the world in this time period. They say that a flower such as this blooms only when there is a Buddha offering salvation to people on earth:

 

 

"The udumbara flower is said in Buddhist legend to bloom only once every 3,000 years, the last time being before the birth of Buddha. Spotted again across the world in the past 20 years or so, some say the udumbara could herald the coming of a great sage or enlightened being."

 

and:

 

 

According to Buddhist legend, its appearance heralds the arrival of the Holy King Who Turns the Wheel, rectifying the Dharma in the world. This King is said to accept anyone of any religious affiliation, offering salvation to all through compassion. 

 

Volume 8 of the Buddhist scripture “Huilin Phonetics and Interpretation” states: “The udumbara flower is the product of propitious and supernatural phenomena; it is a celestial flower and does not exist in the mundane world. If a Tathagata or the King of the Golden Wheel appears in the human world, this flower will appear due to his great virtue and blessings.”

 

 

The full article can be read here:

 

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/7250...-across-globe/

 

A newspaper article talking about finding the flower in their home:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/7345137/Rare-Buddhist-flower-found-under-nuns-washing-machine.html

[SoverMan]

I was researching this practice most of the week. It's attraction being for one...it's FREE! And I was looking for a practice I could grow with and learn. BUT...it seems one is almost WARNED...if your not willing to do these 3 THINGS WELL...the law bodies will be denied to you. It felt ELITIST and STIFFLING. 

 

My question is....if not Falun Gong...what other AUTHENTIC practice is out there? 

 

Thank you

[Jetsun]

They sure do Crazy Fox Ali,

 

The CCP have a full propaganda campaign trying to undermine Dafa:

 

http://en.minghui.org/cc/9/

 

http://www.ninecommentaries.com/english-9

 

 

 

 

Jetsun, there is ancient flower known as the udumbara flower, this flower is said to bloom only once every 3000 years. This flower is now been spotted blooming in different places around the world in this time period. They say that a flower such as this blooms only when there is a Buddha offering salvation to people on earth:

 

 

"The udumbara flower is said in Buddhist legend to bloom only once every 3,000 years, the last time being before the birth of Buddha. Spotted again across the world in the past 20 years or so, some say the udumbara could herald the coming of a great sage or enlightened being."

 

and:

 

 

According to Buddhist legend, its appearance heralds the arrival of the Holy King Who Turns the Wheel, rectifying the Dharma in the world. This King is said to accept anyone of any religious affiliation, offering salvation to all through compassion.

 

Volume 8 of the Buddhist scripture “Huilin Phonetics and Interpretation” states: “The udumbara flower is the product of propitious and supernatural phenomena; it is a celestial flower and does not exist in the mundane world. If a Tathagata or the King of the Golden Wheel appears in the human world, this flower will appear due to his great virtue and blessings.”

 

 

The full article can be read here:

 

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/7250...-across-globe/

 

A newspaper article talking about finding the flower in their home:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/7345137/Rare-Buddhist-flower-found-under-nuns-washing-machine.html

It is a huge assumption that the Faun Gong leader is this Buddha. I have seen absolutely nothing to suggest he is anything except another cult leader, absolutely no signs of the meditative experience and powers of a Buddha.

[Mud Dragon]

Hey y'all,

I have to chime in here and say that Zhuan Falun does not teach Buddhism. Falun gong might very well be a qigong form of Buddhist origin. But what Mr. Li Hongzhi teaches in Zhuan Falun is certainly not Buddhist in origin. It contradicts the teachings of the Historical Buddha.

What is it that Mr. Li Hongzhi teaches about arhats? What is it that he teaches about karma? Isn't it true that Mr. Li Hongzhi states in his lectures that and arhat can have his level lowered unintentionally? Isn't this contradicting what the Buddha taught? What does Mr. Li Hongzhi teach about the root of suffering, the three root defilements? Does he teach that Nibbanna is the cessation of suffering by cutting of the root volition? Didn't the Buddha refute Mahavira's position on the nature of karma being substantial? Didn't the Buddha teach that karma is volition, action and an aspect of Idappaccayatā?

Don't take my word for it. Study the sutras for yourself. Compare them with the lectures and Zhuan Falun.
If you haven't the time, just look through the table of contents of the book The Refutation and Analysis of Falun Gong. Look at a few of the key points and investigate for yourself. Do as the Buddha instructed and see that in fact, one should not take things as being just as an authority figure says they are. The wise investigate things for themselves.

Mr. Hongzhi lacks the qualifications of a Buddha. He denigrates the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. He claims monks "can't save people". What do people need saving from? Being eliminated? When did the Buddha teach that bad people are eliminated? Does Mr Li Hongzhi teach that people are in the three realms because social conditions in heaven became too complicated and people lost their enlightened status because of a loss of virtue? Doesn't this contradict the Buddha's teaching about the root of suffering? Doesn't this imply that Mr. Li Hongzhi has committed the fifth heinous action? Doesn't that imply that he will go to one of hells?

These are all rhetorical questions. I am not soliciting a debate. I won't debate this issue. I leave it for each person to sort out for himself.

Let me go on to say that Mr. Li Hongzhi displays a great deal of ignorance about Chan, and the West. He posits an eternalist religious philosophy which, to me appears theistic. A Buddha is omniscient, and has the 32 major marks. There are no celestial udumbara trees on earth. This kind of tree grows in the deva realms. It says so in the suttas. 

Moreover, why do the Falun Dafa people keep bringing up disparate bits of prophecy as a means to support their position? Wouldn't you agree that is a rather weak rhetorical means to curry faith? Why so much emphasis on the end of the world, and the elimination of bad people? Moreover, you should all consider again the 32 major marks of a cakravartin. Does Li Hongzhi have a head protuberance? What do the sutras say about the 32 major marks?

Also, if you look at comparision charts availible on the net, you will find Falun Dafa is categorized as it own religion, and is remarkably different from either Buddhism or Taoism. I would say Falun Dafa is just one of these new mash-up religions founded by a charismatic leader. Buddhism and Taoism have more in common with each other than they do this new philosophy expounded in Zhuan Falun. 

Finally, let me ask, what actually happened to Sakyamuni, when he was seated under the Bodhi tree? Is it like Mr. Li Hongzhi says, he remebered all his past lives and was thus able to teach high level cultivation? Suddenly all his super-normal powers were unlocked and he was then an immortal?

I heard, that what happened under the Bodhi tree was that the Bodhisattva became an arahant. He experienced the cessation of the three root defilement of aversion, desire and ignorance. He ceased to have volition.

I heard that Li Hongzhi still experiences anger.

I heard that teachers who mislead their students go to the cold hells.

Lastly, what is this nonsense Li Hongzhi teaches about Buddha's teachings changing over time to accommodate the new things Buddha enlightened to, remembering new ideas from past lives as he taught and expounded the dharma? This contradicts the suttas.

Svakkhato Bhagavata dhammo sanditthiko akaliko ehipassiko opanayiko paccattam vedittabbo vinnuhiti!

Find out what those words mean for yourself. Study the actual teachings of the Buddha, before accepting some new mish-mash religion's leader as being a Buddha. A man who preaches fear and dogmatism is no Buddha. Buddha accepted questions, and made himself available to his disciples. Mr. Li Hongzhi does not appear to do so.

Again, these are all rhetorical questions and statements. I am not soliciting a debate. I won't debate this issue. I leave it for each person to sort out for himself. 

PS
The epoch times is a Falun Dafa run website. They're as biased as the Chinese anti Falun propaganda websites.

I have to also say, I would very much like to know more about the real origins of the Falun Gong movements.

[Vajra Fist]

Comparing Falun Gong's beliefs to the Buddhist source material is somewhat disingenious. There are bound to be discrepancies. In the Falun Gong practitioners view, Zhuan Falun is the primary source material. Practitioners are not practicing Buddhism via Falun Gong. Nor are they practicing Daoism. They are practicing Falun Gong.

 

You can compare it to the discrepancies between proto Christianity in Judaism, and early Buddhism in the time of Bradmanism orthodoxy. There are theistic conflicts because it's a radical reinterpretation of the older scriptures.

 

I don't practice Falun Gong anymore, but I did practice it for around 10 years. Funnily enough I now practice devotion to Chenrezig through the six syllable mantra.

 

But I still have enormous respect for Li Hongzhi and Falun Gong. Anyone who gets caught up in debates over orthodoxy and theology misses the point. Falun Gong is about cultivating kindness, forbearance and compassion. It's not an organised religion, I practiced on my own for about five years with a loose social network of mates who also practiced. I'm happily married with children. My wife doesnt practice and Ive never really asked if shes interested. Its nothing like a cult at all.

 

In the end it wasn't working for me, so I stepped off that path. I haven't had mad Scientology types banging on my door. I still meet up with friends who practice, and I can see that it works for them. I'm happy for them.

 

I think the reason why Falun Gong gets a bad rep is because the new practitioners get a bit carried away and come on here. They can be insufferably dogmatic (sorry) and can seem like they are prothylising. But I think most of us here are broad minded and spiritually mature enough to not get into name calling or condemnation from up high. Live and let live.

[Vajra Fist]

Just as an aside the main practice in Falun Gong, above practicing the exercises and reading the books is something called character cultivation.

 

Basically, whenever someone hits you or insults you, you turn the other cheek. More so than that, you look at whether you were at fault. Then you cultivate compassion toward them.

 

That for me is something I still strive to practice and is something most of us should try to do too irrespective of religion or discipline.

[EnergyGem]

On 9/1/2016 at 3:50 AM, Vajra Fist said:

Just as an aside the main practice in Falun Gong, above practicing the exercises and reading the books is something called character cultivation.

 

Basically, whenever someone hits you or insults you, you turn the other cheek. More so than that, you look at whether you were at fault. Then you cultivate compassion toward them.

 

That for me is something I still strive to practice and is something most of us should try to do too irrespective of religion or discipline.

 

Agreed Vajra Fist. It's not easy to forebear one one hurts you physically or mentally but in Falun Dafa forbearance is one of the core tenets of the practice.

 

Just to let people know, a new version of the book has been released with an even more accurate translation from the original Chinese:

 

http://falundafa.org/eng/eng/pdf/Zhuan-Falun-2018.pdf

[SirPalomides]

I'm sure a lot of lovely people are involved in Falun Gong, but I have to say I'm put off by claims like this one:

 

Quote

The dark energy of the devil can spread from one sphere, group, or movement to another. For instance, after the anti-Vietnam War movement faded in the West in the 1970s, the devil manipulated rebellious adolescents to channel their energies into agitating for feminism, environmentalism, and the legalization of homosexuality. The devil then used these efforts to subvert Western civilization from within.

 

Or this:

 

Quote

The aliens have introduced modern machinery like computers and airplanes. They started by teaching mankind about modern science, so people believe more and more science, and spiritually, they are controlled. Everyone thinks that scientists invent on their own when in fact their inspiration is manipulated by the aliens. In terms of culture and spirit, they already control man. Mankind cannot live without science.

The ultimate purpose is to replace humans. If cloning human beings succeeds, the aliens can officially replace humans. Why does a corpse lie dead, even though it is the same as a living body? The difference is the soul, which is the life of the body. If people reproduce a human person, the gods in heaven will not give its body a human soul. The aliens will take that opportunity to replace the human soul and by doing so they will enter earth and become earthlings.

When such people grow up, they will help replace humans with aliens. They will produce more and more clones. There will no longer be humans reproduced by humans. They will act like humans, but they will introduce legislation to stop human reproduction.

 

Or this:

 

Quote

In the reincarnation process it is the main soul that reincarnates, whereas what has mixed blood is the flesh body. Different gods created their own different peoples, and in history those gods have all along been taking care of the people they themselves created. White people are white people, black people are black people, and people of the yellow race are people of the yellow race. Any ethnicity in the world is a race that corresponds with the heavens. After mixing blood people no longer have their correspondence to the gods in the heavens. And then it is possible that none of the gods that created humans will take care of them. Then with regard to these people, they are very pitiable. Some people might be wondering what to do, then. I’ll tell you, don’t be anxious. I am talking about the situation at the human being’s surface. Since humans’ main souls haven’t mixed, if people want to cultivate I can enable you to cultivate. If you can cultivate to the last step you can Consummate all the same, and there won’t be any distinction. Cultivation won’t be an issue.

If an everyday person is in the circumstance [we just discussed] then he will lead a very pitiable life. The gods above won’t recognize a region where there is a concentration of mixed races, so normally the people in such a region will be destitute and have a hard life.

 

[Vajra Fist]

The lines you've quoted above are from lectures in the mid 90s to small audiences in the US on a number of niche areas. They're not part of the main text of Zhuan Falun, so they don't represent the main teaching of this school.

 

Moreover the parts about mixed race children is definitely more descriptive than prescriptive. When I was practicing I met my wife, who is Japanese, and we had a mixed race child. There are many other practitioners who have similar circumstances. 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Vajra Fist

[SirPalomides]

On 11/23/2019 at 5:19 AM, Vajra Fist said:

The lines you've quoted above are from lectures in the mid 90s to small audiences in the US on a number of niche areas. They're not part of the main text of Zhuan Falun, so they don't represent the main teaching of this school.

 

Moreover the parts about mixed race children is definitely more descriptive than prescriptive. When I was practicing I met my wife, who is Japanese, and we had a mixed race child. There are many other practitioners who have similar circumstances. 

It doesn’t matter whether the talks were delivered in the 90’s or yesterday, or whether they appear in a central publication. They are clearly the thoughts of a deranged mind, which belongs to the founder and leader of Falun Gong.  Nowadays the Falun Gong organization is a rabid pro-Trump propaganda machine, so things are as crazy as ever.

 

I’m glad to hear that you have no objections to having a multiracial child. So how do you feel hearing that your child is “pitiable” and can’t go to heaven?

Edited January 19, 2020 by SirPalomides

[moment]

On 11/23/2019 at 2:19 AM, Vajra Fist said:

The lines you've quoted above are from lectures in the mid 90s to small audiences in the US on a number of niche areas. They're not part of the main text of Zhuan Falun, so they don't represent the main teaching of this school.

 

Moreover the parts about mixed race children is definitely more descriptive than prescriptive. When I was practicing I met my wife, who is Japanese, and we had a mixed race child. There are many other practitioners who have similar circumstances. 

Can you direct me to where the main body has disavowed the obvious racist, bigoted quotes above that, as you say, " are from lectures in the mid 90s to small audiences in the US on a number of niche areas".

Edited January 19, 2020 by moment

[Vajra Fist]

18 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

It doesn’t matter whether the talks were delivered in the 90’s or yesterday, or whether they appear in a central publication. They are clearly the thoughts of a deranged mind, which belongs to the founder and leader of Falun Gong.  Nowadays the Falun Gong organization is a rabid pro-Trump propaganda machine, so things are as crazy as ever.

 

I’m glad to hear that you have no objections to having a multiracial child. So how do you feel hearing that your child is “pitiable” and can’t go to heaven?

 

You've asked me how does it make me feel as a parent of a mixed race child. I'd say I'm probably one of the most likely people to be offended by this. I definitely would be if what he was talking about was a far right political ideology. But he's talking about cosmological stuff that he sees at his level, like how society has changed and lost its connection with heavenly bodies. There are other stuff he discusses in this lecture like changes in the arts, and promiscuity.

 

It's really up to yourself if you believe it or not, or judge it as bigoted. I don't practice anymore, so I don't really have any strong feelings about it.

 

And for the record, I have never seen my son, who is the love of my life, as pitiable, even when I still believed in FG. The thought hadn't even occurred to me. Hard to think that way when he's kicking your arse at football.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Vajra Fist

[SirPalomides]

1 hour ago, Vajra Fist said:

 

You've asked me how does it make me feel as a parent of a mixed race child. I'd say I'm probably one of the most likely people to be offended by this.

 

I’m mixed race myself. I find it to be utterly looney but thankfully I have no involvement with this madman’s organization. I’m glad you got out while you could and spared your son from this nonsense.

 

Quote

I definitely would be if what he was talking about was a far right political ideology.
But he's talking about cosmological stuff that he sees at his level, like how society has changed and lost its connection with heavenly bodies.

 

So if we advance to a sufficiently high level of spiritual vision, we too will be ardent Trump cheerleaders who think race-mixing, homosexuality, and feminism are all part of a Satanic communist plot?  
 

Here’s Falun Gong linking up with Steve Bannon  to produce some anti-China schlock. Nope, nothing far right here. If we were all sufficiently advanced we’d see this is based on pure cosmological vision.

Edited January 20, 2020 by SirPalomides

[Eclair Blanc]

I have only one question for you: what is the true purpose of the Master Li Hongzhi? Make disciple or true enlightened being?

[SirPalomides]

His purpose is to sell Shen Yun tickets to fund Donald Trump’s re-election campaign.

[Vajra Fist]

Haha, I think you're probably exaggerating some of the more wackier teachings. But yes, I agree there has been a worrying shift towards the right in recent years. I stopped practicing in 2015 so I haven't been involved in that. But as a socialist, it doesn't sit well with me.

 

I think at its core, Falun Gong is an excellent qigong system and a very positive set of teachings, surrounding being kind to others. I sympathise with their efforts to publicise the human rights violations in China (which have been verified by Amnesty). But I don't think they should have waded in to the whole domestic US politics scene.

 

If I'm playing devil's advocate to a fault it's because it was a huge part of my life for over a decade, particularly during my formative years. I went from being a pothead student with no direction in life to having a career that I love, married to a wonderful woman and having a beautiful child. Even though I no longer practice it, I think a lot of the choices I made during that time were due to my FG practice and that led me where I am now. I am really grateful for that every day. Of course there's no way of knowing how it would have worked out without FG.

 

Thanks for the reading material anyhow. It's interesting to see how it's changed over the past five years. 

[Eclair Blanc]

59 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

His purpose is to sell Shen Yun tickets to fund Donald Trump’s re-election campaign.

Have you read the teaching and practiced this system?

As I have said into another post the founder claim that someone with strong determination and regular practice will get healing of any ailments, protection against harmful influence, third eye opening, occult powers and ultimately immortal body.  I dont have the quotes but you can find them on their website. This is very high claim and I would like to know what a true practicer have really gain from his Falung Gong practice because this is easy to be trapped into illusion for spiritual seeker who dont want only better health and energy but true spiritual evolution.

I do some research about the subtle body creation so I have some interest about Falun Dafa.

Vajra Fist have done this path during 10 years so his testimony has meaning for me.

Thanks