Zhuan Falun (Turning The Law Wheel)

[Vajra Fist]

30 minutes ago, Eclair Blanc said:

Have you read the teaching and practiced this system?

As I have said into another post the founder claim that someone with strong determination and regular practice will get healing of any ailments, protection against harmful influence, third eye opening, occult powers and ultimately immortal body.  I dont have the quotes but you can find them on their website. This is very high claim and I would like to know what a true practicer have really gain from his Falung Gong practice because this is easy to be trapped into illusion for spiritual seeker who dont want only better health and energy but true spiritual evolution.

I do some research about the subtle body creation so I have some interest about Falun Dafa.

Vajra Fist have done this path during 10 years so his testimony has meaning for me.

Thanks

 

I had some experiences of seeing stuff really clearly with the third eye. But on the whole, most people practice with certain abilities 'locked'. Sometimes you'll get a glimpse of something, enough to confirm your belief in the practice, then it will go away. The point of that, as far as I can tell, is to ensure it doesn't go to your head and you declare yourself a qigong master even before you finished practicing. It's also a test of faith in the practice. 

 

Edit: this answer is purely in regards to the stuff like supernormal powers. For the record the exercises feel great, as many other qigong exercises do too. Thats enough reason to consider practicing them. 

 

For me, the reason why I stopped practicing is I just didn't feel like I was getting anything from it any more. I was making the same old mistakes and beating myself up over them. Maybe I'm just not a mature enough person to practice. Or maybe it was just time for a break. 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Vajra Fist

[SirPalomides]

Let's assume that devoted Falun Gong practitioners can, after certain amount of dedicated practice, levitate, shoot lasers from their eyes, and fart rainbows. So what? Is the purpose of spiritual cultivation to acquire powers? What about righteousness and humanity? Because if you lack these the rest is just a puff of smoke in the wind. And without having practiced Falun Gong even once, anyone can see that the organization and its leader lack them.

[SirPalomides]

1 hour ago, Vajra Fist said:

Haha, I think you're probably exaggerating some of the more wackier teachings.

 

I'm pretty much just paraphrasing their own series of articles, How the Specter of Communism is Ruling Our World:

 

Quote

The dark energy of the devil can spread from one sphere, group, or movement to another. For instance, after the anti-Vietnam War movement faded in the West in the 1970s, the devil manipulated rebellious adolescents to channel their energies into agitating for feminism, environmentalism, and the legalization of homosexuality. The devil then used these efforts to subvert Western civilization from within.

 

...

 

The demon of communism inhabits a variety of complex guises in the West and operates under many banners, making it almost impossible to guard against. The following schools or movements were either derived from communism or used by communism to reach its ends: liberalism, progressivism, the Frankfurt School, Neo-Marxism, critical theory, the counterculture of the 1960s, the anti-war movement, sexual liberation, legalization of homosexuality, feminism, environmentalism, social justice, political correctness, Keynesian economics, avant-garde art schools, and multiculturalism.

 

But wait, there's more!

 

Quote

Since antiquity, people have moved from one place to another. However, the massive domestic and international population movements seen in modern times are the result of the specter’s manipulation. Mass immigration dissolves national identity, borders, sovereignty, cultural traditions, and social cohesion.

As masses of people are removed from their traditional identities, they are more easily absorbed into the drift of modernity. It is difficult for immigrants living in an unfamiliar environment to secure their livelihood, let alone participate deeply in their host countries’ political processes or cultural traditions.

Newly arrived immigrants are easily recruited as free votes for leftist parties. Meanwhile, immigration creates ripe conditions for stirring up racial and religious animosities.

 

The whole series is worth a look as it lays out Falun Gong's worldview and goals in painful detail.

 

 

1 hour ago, Vajra Fist said:

I think at its core, Falun Gong is an excellent qigong system and a very positive set of teachings, surrounding being kind to others.

 

I think there are plenty of other qigong practices that accomplish this without involving devotion to a deluded charlatan like Li Hongzhi.

[Eclair Blanc]

Yes Spiritual cultivation is about rgitheousness and humanity among other things. When I read the books everything is focused on Truthfulness-Compassion-Forbearance. Why the founder and Falun Gong are wrong for you? Some pepple think that Li Hongzhi is crazy for his insights and uncommon teaching, at the end only the personal experience of these teaching can give the answer.

 

 Spiritual cultivation must give result if done correctly according to the teaching or this is a waste of time. Everyone (excepted masters) on this forum seek truth a about qiqong, daoist teaching and masters, Guru and so on to avoid lost of time and efforts. Powers are just steps on the road to know that something has been attained not the final purpose. They can be used to help spiritual cultivation or they can be big obstacle it depends on the maturity of the practicer... 

[Vajra Fist]

3 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

 

I'm pretty much just paraphrasing their own series of articles, How the Specter of Communism is Ruling Our World:

 

 

But wait, there's more!

 

 

The whole series is worth a look as it lays out Falun Gong's worldview and goals in painful detail.

 

 

 

I think there are plenty of other qigong practices that accomplish this without involving devotion to a deluded charlatan like Li Hongzhi.

 

Just to be clear, that's a badly written op-ed by the Chinese Epoch Times, translated into English. Thats not a direct teaching by Li Hongzhi.

 

But yeah, they do see Communism as a sort of entity, what Delaforge would describe as an "egregore", that it's their responsibility to exorcise. 

 

[Eclair Blanc]

9 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

 

I'm pretty much just paraphrasing their own series of articles, How the Specter of Communism is Ruling Our World:

 

 

But wait, there's more!

 

 

The whole series is worth a look as it lays out Falun Gong's worldview and goals in painful detail.

 

 

 

I think there are plenty of other qigong practices that accomplish this without involving devotion to a deluded charlatan like Li Hongzhi.

Ok I understand better your point of view, thank you for these quotes.

I'm not a practicer of Falun Gong but interested by it.

[SirPalomides]

As for Falun Gong's claims about organ harvesting in the PRC... well, there are certainly many horrific things the PRC has done, but Falun Gong's claims about being systematically targeted for organ harvesting are almost certainly a hoax. The key report cited by Falun Gong- "Bloody Harvest," co-authored by David Kilgour and David Matas- was requested by a Falun Gong front group (the Coalition to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong). A follow up report, recently released by the "independent" China Tribunal, was sponsored by yet another Falun Gong front group (International Coalition to End Transplant Abuse). The latter organization claims to be "independent" but if you go through the names on their board of directors, almost all of them work at Epoch Times.

 

As for the report's authors themselves, Kilgour and Matas, they have some interesting connections too. Among other things they are both enthusiastic apologists for the Mojahedin e Khalq, a weird Iranian terrorist cult that is favored by regime change hawks in US and Anglo state departments. The report itself dismisses contrary expert testimony and relies heavily on dubious extrapolations and testimony from Falun Gong curated sources.

 

To date there appears to have been only one independent investigation of the claims in Western media, by Simon Denyer of the Washington Post, and what he found did not support Falun Gong's claims.

[Eclair Blanc]

Some point that I have observed :

-The number of Falun Gong members exceeded the number of members of the Communist Party, which is considerable and therefore represents a danger for the totalitarian political authorities in place who accept no contradiction.

-It is a movement without structure and therefore not subject to a hierarchy, administrative or otherwise, and devoid of financial contributions. When you usually go to a Qigong seminar you have to pay fee but no fee for Falun Gong teaching all are free and available. 

-The teaching of Falun Gong is fully available, everything is given, most of the other spiritual or high Qigong teacher only give one or two level to public.

-For a practicer of other tradition it is easy to know that many deep teaching are into Falun Gong for example some teaching are link to the most deep Buddhist initiatory secret. 

-Practicer can confirm the presence of the wheel into the lower abdomen and the deep supernatural working of this wheel for their health, spiritual and material life.

 

BUT Li Hongzhi has very controversial ideas and teachings for example about medicine and Extraterrestrial beings...Li Hongzhi also doesn't allow his student to practicer anything else than Falun Gong and to avoid alchemy.

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Eclair Blanc

[Vajra Fist]

4 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

As for Falun Gong's claims about organ harvesting in the PRC... well, there are certainly many horrific things the PRC has done, but Falun Gong's claims about being systematically targeted for organ harvesting are almost certainly a hoax. The key report cited by Falun Gong- "Bloody Harvest," co-authored by David Kilgour and David Matas- was requested by a Falun Gong front group (the Coalition to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong). A follow up report, recently released by the "independent" China Tribunal, was sponsored by yet another Falun Gong front group (International Coalition to End Transplant Abuse). The latter organization claims to be "independent" but if you go through the names on their board of directors, almost all of them work at Epoch Times.

 

As for the report's authors themselves, Kilgour and Matas, they have some interesting connections too. Among other things they are both enthusiastic apologists for the Mojahedin e Khalq, a weird Iranian terrorist cult that is favored by regime change hawks in US and Anglo state departments. The report itself dismisses contrary expert testimony and relies heavily on dubious extrapolations and testimony from Falun Gong curated sources.

 

To date there appears to have been only one independent investigation of the claims in Western media, by Simon Denyer of the Washington Post, and what he found did not support Falun Gong's claims.

 

And yet people have been tortured and put through state 're-education'. I've seen the scars, physical and emotional. If FG has exaggerated any claims on organ harvesting, I think it can be forgiven. What people have been through is harrowing. 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Vajra Fist

[SirPalomides]

If one goes from the fact that prisoners are tortured in Chinese prisons, to lurid assertions of FLG practitioners being murdered and organ-harvested en masse, that's not an exaggeration, it's a straight-up lie. Fabricating stories like this does a disservice to actual victims. A similar problem exists for legitimate North Korean refugees, who have to distance themselves from bullshitters who fabricate crazy stories to get money from unscrupulous journalists.

 

Quite a few credible and harrowing stories are coming out of Donald Trump's border concentration camps, but if someone tells me Donald Trump keeps a shark tank in the White House that he daily throws Honduran babies into, I'm going to require some serious substantiation before I give it credence.

[Vajra Fist]

1 hour ago, SirPalomides said:

If one goes from the fact that prisoners are tortured in Chinese prisons, to lurid assertions of FLG practitioners being murdered and organ-harvested en masse, that's not an exaggeration, it's a straight-up lie. Fabricating stories like this does a disservice to actual victims. A similar problem exists for legitimate North Korean refugees, who have to distance themselves from bullshitters who fabricate crazy stories to get money from unscrupulous journalists.

 

Quite a few credible and harrowing stories are coming out of Donald Trump's border concentration camps, but if someone tells me Donald Trump keeps a shark tank in the White House that he daily throws Honduran babies into, I'm going to require some serious substantiation before I give it credence.

 

I wouldn't call it a straight up lie. There's a heck of a lot of circumstantial evidence which adds up to something happening. One middle aged woman I interviewed was tortured pretty badly. They beat the shit out of her with a cattle prod and made her sit naked in stress positions for days at a time. She said she was randomly taken to a hospital for CT scans and blood tests, although they refused to tell her why. 

[SirPalomides]

2 hours ago, Eclair Blanc said:

Some point that I have observed :

-The number of Falun Gong members exceeded the number of members of the Communist Party, which is considerable and therefore represents a danger for the totalitarian political authorities in place who accept no contradiction.

 

I doubt Falun Gong's numbers got that big. But yes, they were quite popular as far as qigong groups go and did manage to get a lot of people out to their public manifestations. The PRC is inherently paranoid about any unauthorized public gathering. It could be a religious, political, or union meeting, or just a dance party, or even a Marxist book club- if they haven't been asked for approval, the authorities get nervous. Li Hongzhi seemed to be deliberately making a show of strength and pursuing confrontation with the state. Perhaps he actually thought he could force the government to back down to some extent. There are a lot of qigong groups in China still, and they generally meet without trouble, though the government might put out propaganda trying to discredit them or certain leaders.

Edited January 20, 2020 by SirPalomides

[Vajra Fist]

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Edited February 27, 2020 by Vajra Fist

[Dalmat]

My experience about FG;

I tried it in mid 90's, had no internet, only book and DVD. Just got off of Tantra and got run into FG. 

First what I've recognised was the energy; newer had that feeling of rush when I put my tongue on palate. So I concluded that this is very powerful. After some time my health was better. But master's Li writings to me sounded like pretty cult like and a bit messed up. I quit when I've seen that the tolerance thing (I live on Balkan) is hard to work out.

So what did I get of FG? I certainly became a better human being: don't lie, have more tolerance, comprehension and empathy. And I have a new experience and perspective.

[SirPalomides]

1 hour ago, Dalmat said:

I quit when I've seen that the tolerance thing (I live on Balkan) is hard to work out.

Could you say more about what you mean here? Thanks 

[Dalmat]

1 minute ago, SirPalomides said:

Could you say more about what you mean here? Thanks 

Ha ha ha... It's all about macho mentality here. When man shows tolerance it can be explained like he is week and than he get (or can get) some idiots who will raise their ego by provoking or even atacking him. For exmple, I came to gas station to pump air in my tires, and a guy came with his "wanna be gagsta" BMW park behind me and, like there is no car on the pamping place start to pump his tires. I smiled and said something about in what kind of hurry he must be, without irony. He said something really unokonvinient and I just smiled beck. Then came the shootgun seat guy uot and asked me pretty aggresive that is there any problem. My usually answer in that case would be: "no but your'e just gonna get one". Instead I said just"Not really". Then came the third guy from beckseat out and asked me what's my problem... I smiled again and told him to ask his friend.

So, I'm not small man, and familiar with martial arts, I could eassy take them all thre down with less then six punches, but it wasn't just awoiding figt according to FG teachings, I really didn't see a need for fight, but if I had drowing back they will surely atack me.

So I said to them that I didn't spend years in war (I'm an ex soldier, war veteran) to get f#$%ed by them, and that my action will be the last in thet conflict. They stuck back and went away without pumping their back tires, but they also didn't flew away. 

So here, as the lots of young people see - empathy is for pussies and tolerance is weakness.

Hope I explained it well.

 

[SirPalomides]

Ahh okay. I was thinking you might have been referring to all the sectarian/ linguistic/ national divisions in the Balkans.

[Dalmat]

No that part is OK for now. We are all divided on Us and Them. Us are little people, and Them are the politicians, in all six ex Yugoslavia countries.