Animal chi

[mindtooloud]

Are animals as capable as humans when it comes to cultivating energy and meditating?

[silent thunder]

cats give me the sense that they embody what I would call mindfulness and emptiness by turns...

[Marblehead]

Yeah, I think they are more capable than we humans are.  We humans think too much.

[wilfred]

they mostly lack the higher mind faculties, running on instinct has its pros and cons. but some are clearly more mindful than others.

[WisteriaWinds]

They live in the now and adjust themselves as necessary to best enjoy the moment, but they lack the higher functions which would allow them to fully recognize what they're blessed with. So they've got it, but they don't.

Most humans do the same thing in reverse.

[Chang]

They live in the now and adjust themselves as necessary to best enjoy the moment, but they lack the higher functions which would allow them to fully recognize what they're blessed with. So they've got it, but they don't.

Most humans do the same thing in reverse.

 

Cats will always come top in this respect. They also perfectly demonstrate the concept of "sung" or energised relaxation. We have much to learn from them in respect. The main barrier when we attempt to emulate this quality is our thought process.

[Edward M]

Animals just do and just be, what we say they lack in fact is actually our lack, our capacity for self deception, corruption, selfishness and deceiving others.  

 

In a way they can be said to be on a higher plane than us, because they are natural, but then with our extra faculties if we were to bring those also into harmony with the Light/Spirit, then we have capacity to be natural on an even higher plane, in other words our extra faculties can take us lower or higher than the ones we call animals.  Just my opinion.

 

Slight derail which i apologise for!  

Peace   

[wilfred]

one thing you can see with animals is how perfect the life principle is as a response to nature, when uninterfered with. some of the perceptions that animals pull off are quite remarkable when compared to humans who have this tendency to needlessly churn things over ;]

 

if you ever get to see a vulture high up a mountain, that's some serious high level awareness in the animal kingdom. they seem to be aware of everything around them for literally miles around, from all the way up in the clouds to down on the ground. the not killing factor is another characteristic of higher vibration creatures.

[dawei]

I've walked around my pond a hundred times and encountered the ducks but today was the first time I intentionally 'connected' with them...   they started to yawn and flutter and then all sat down and put their heads down to sleep...

 

I was a bit astonished.

 

Either, I have the gift to put ducks to sleep... or 

 

They are really tired of seeing me !  

 

[Taomeow]

Taoists not only believe that animals are capable of self-cultivation, but have a tradition of learning from some of them. 

 

One thing animals don't have that we do is an incredibly heavy load of pathological genetic mutations (with the exception of domesticated animals who also have many).  Our thinking brain may be one such mutation, since it is the outcome of neoteny -- the reverting of an organism to an earlier, fetal developmental stage in adulthood.  A larger brain to body ratio is a fetal characteristic, not an evolutionary advance.  In fact it's the opposite -- an evolutionary step back.  (Who knows why we had to take it.  I tend to believe someone or something made us take this step towards shaping us into something that has nothing to do with "higher" function or purpose and everything to do with...  but let me drop this tangent.)  

 

Oh, and this just In:  turns out our hand is a primitive organ compared to the chimp's.  So much for the glory of the opposable thumb.

 

http://news.discovery.com/animals/endangered-species/human-hands-more-primitive-than-chimp-hands-150714.htm

 

Also, none of animals' young are born as helpless and dependent and remain so for as long compared to human babies who are born basically at least a year away from any self-care capabilities (while learning 95% of everything they will ever learn in a lifetime by age 5 --- meaning the earliest developmental experiences are the most crucial shaping ones) -- and yet animals in the primate kingdom take far better care of their young and do it for much longer than modern humans do.  And that's why they have a tremendous head-start on us.  They learn a direct personal relationship with spacetime itself, something a civilized human is more likely than not to never experience.  They have social continuity because of that too, and don't know what it means to feel alienated from your own kind's way of life.  They are only unfortunate in that they share this planet with the species that uses weapons of mass destruction on their habitat.  But I've a hunch that the smallest, most inconspicuous of them are paying attention...  and doing something about it as we speak.         

 

"Study the cat, Saihung.  Everything you need to learn, she knows already." -- Deng Ming-dao, "The Wandering Taoist"

[Gerard]

Are animals as capable as humans when it comes to cultivating energy and meditating?

 

A lot more. I spend a lot of time outdoors in nature, and let me tell you: modern humans have lost it!

[Gerard]

Yeah, I think they are more capable than we humans are.  We humans think too much.

 

Not only that. They have deviated from the natural world and its laws. I was watching the movie Embrace of the Serpent and when the Amazonian shaman told the German explorer not to fish because it was forbidden (due to the season they were in), I thought yeah right as if this law is being followed today by large fisheries.

 

Koyaanisqatsi (Life Out of Balance).

Edited May 17, 2016 by Gerard

[子泰]

[Edward M]

Animals do cultivate chi, just look at cats and their purring/healing vibrations, that not only effect themselves, but also those around them.  But whether they are intending to do it is another matter.... i'd say no, they just do it as part of their naturalness and being-ness, and themselves, as animals....  

[Taomeow]

Animals do cultivate chi, just look at cats and their purring/healing vibrations, that not only effect themselves, but also those around them.  But whether they are intending to do it is another matter.... i'd say no, they just do it as part of their naturalness and being-ness, and themselves, as animals....  

 

Taoist classics hold the view of spontaneous naturalness that is indistinguishable from intent -- a sage does not do anything nor intends anything that is not in accord with tao, everything she intends and everything she does spontaneously aligns and harmonizes with the Way.  "A sage comes like the spring, benefiting all beings."  You can replace "sage" with "bee" and understand what they mean.  

 

I would say we've a long way to go to catch up with animal cultivation, except we're going in the opposite direction...

[Edward M]

We should stop trying and just be ourselves.  Trying is really an attempt to do something, to become something different.  Honesty on all levels is required, probably is all that is required, to be honest with oneself and express that honesty fearlessly and honestly.  

 

Edit to add that it just occurred to me that the most powerful method is just to examine oneself, ones behaviours, reactions etc in a relaxed way without effort except to stay there for a period of time.  Then we will access that deep part of ourselves that is close to tao, and when we are honestly expressing ourselves, it will be from that place.  

 

With the state we are in now, we have to do, to come back to naturalness.  My take on it anyway

Edited May 18, 2016 by Edward M

[Marblehead]

I know of some people who would not be able to do that.  They would go crazy if they attempted to look at them self honestly. 

[mindtooloud]

We should stop trying and just be ourselves.  Trying is really an attempt to do something, to become something different.  Honesty on all levels is required, probably is all that is required, to be honest with oneself and express that honesty fearlessly and honestly.  

 

Edit to add that it just occurred to me that the most powerful method is just to examine oneself, ones behaviours, reactions etc in a relaxed way without effort except to stay there for a period of time.  Then we will access that deep part of ourselves that is close to tao, and when we are honestly expressing ourselves, it will be from that place.  

 

With the state we are in now, we have to do, to come back to naturalness.  My take on it anyway

im so glad you did edit this and added what occurred to you, i was wondering if you could elaborate a bit more on how to examine ones self maybe give a few examples.

 

I know of some people who would not be able to do that.  They would go crazy if they attempted to look at them self honestly. 

its pretty sad to see people who cant handle their true selves and instead cover them selves up with layers of mud looking poop. and i dont doubt for a second that i myself do the same.

[Marblehead]

its pretty sad to see people who cant handle their true selves and instead cover them selves up with layers of mud looking poop. and i dont doubt for a second that i myself do the same.

If there is only one person on this planet we should be honest with it is our self.  Otherwise one will never find contentment.

[Edward M]

Hi Mind to Loud, my mind is probably as loud as yours, so take what i say with a pinch of salt mate    

 

1st of all when i said it just occurred to me, i meant i took from the prior discussion that it would be a very effective method, and secondly i'm not experienced enough in self - examination to verify what i said... so apologies if ive given you the wrong impression!  

 

Do you have a tradition at all?   if you follow christ for example there is already a kind of blueprint of behaviour, in which case Daskalos has this to say:  http://www.researchersoftruth.org/teachings/introspection  

 

and follows with the exercise: http://www.researchersoftruth.org/practice/daily-introspection

 

There is also a method of whilst lying in bed before going to sleep, you view in your minds eye your day starting from now back to when you got up.  Dont judge what happens, just view as honestly as possible.  Over the day, weeks, and months you will notice things over and over. 

 

Maybe someone else who has done self examination can chime in.. im not the best person to ask. 

 

ps, you have trouble meditating..  have you tried counting breaths, 1 to 10 and then back up from 1 again?  count on the outbreath and everytime your mind wanders, dont judge yourself or what happened or attach importance to what you were thinking about, just start back at 1 again.  See if you can do 10 rounds of 10 first, using beads or your fingers to keep track of how many rounds you have done.  Then when you are comfortable with that, try adding  5 rounds at the beginning of the next week until you comfortable again with that and so on.  Keep determined but not to the point of tension, be relaxed with it, easier said than done!   

 

Someone on here gave me a good exercise to just sit in a chair and see how long you can tolerate the calm- just sit.  Do that for a while before you do your thing with meditation, your way or counting breaths and see if that helps you. 

 

Sorry i can't be more help with self examination, i shouldn't have written it the way i did.  But i know counting breaths helped me in the past get from quite a shitty place to a very tolerable place.  

 

Best of luck with your journey dude!  

Peace

[mindtooloud]

Hi Mind to Loud, my mind is probably as loud as yours, so take what i say with a pinch of salt mate    

idk metaphors whats a pinch of salt?

1st of all when i said it just occurred to me, i meant i took from the prior discussion that it would be a very effective method, and secondly i'm not experienced enough in self - examination to verify what i said... so apologies if ive given you the wrong impression!  

no no you;re not inexperienced at all, what you just stated up there is simple logic, and what you said i think is correct. i believe that the fact that you think about this stuff makes you experienced enough, thoughts that come to mind are very valuable,

Do you have a tradition at all?   if you follow christ for example there is already a kind of blueprint of behaviour, in which case Daskalos has this to say:  http://www.researchersoftruth.org/teachings/introspection

 

and follows with the exercise: http://www.researchersoftruth.org/practice/daily-introspection

i dont believe in tradition

There is also a method of whilst lying in bed before going to sleep, you view in your minds eye your day starting from now back to when you got up.  Dont judge what happens, just view as honestly as possible.  Over the day, weeks, and months you will notice things over and over. 

 

Maybe someone else who has done self examination can chime in.. im not the best person to ask. 

 

ps, you have trouble meditating..  have you tried counting breaths, 1 to 10 and then back up from 1 again?  count on the outbreath and everytime your mind wanders, dont judge yourself or what happened or attach importance to what you were thinking about, just start back at 1 again.  See if you can do 10 rounds of 10 first, using beads or your fingers to keep track of how many rounds you have done.  Then when you are comfortable with that, try adding  5 rounds at the beginning of the next week until you comfortable again with that and so on.  Keep determined but not to the point of tension, be relaxed with it, easier said than done!   

 

Someone on here gave me a good exercise to just sit in a chair and see how long you can tolerate the calm- just sit.  Do that for a while before you do your thing with meditation, your way or counting breaths and see if that helps you. 

 

Sorry i can't be more help with self examination, i shouldn't have written it the way i did.  But i know counting breaths helped me in the past get from quite a shitty place to a very tolerable place.  

 

Best of luck with your journey dude!  

Peace

i will try this, thanks for sharing your thoughts with me

[Edward M]

No problem, by pinch of salt i meant may need an extra ingredient to work for you, so don't take what i say as being the truth or anything like that.

 

Back to the original topic (sort of ) with humans we have as far as i know the unique capacity to harness one of the elements that other beings don't seem to: FIRE

 

This is interesting to me because fire is seen in some shamanic traditions as the living face of Spirit.  It's also connected to Archangel Michael, who is a protector, and we humans have used fire to protect ourselves from predators.  As well as misused it by reversing the role.  

 

It's also connected to kundalini, the divine fire element within us.  That brings another question: Do animals have kundalini energy?  

 

Peace