a man asked Jesus about eternal life

[roger]

"Good master, what must I do to have eternal life?" -a rich man asked Jesus

 

"Sell all that you have, and give it to the poor, then come and follow me." -Jesus

 

 

Well, I certainly don't mean this as a judgment against Jesus, but he might have done better to say, "Absolutely nothing. You already have it!"

 

 

Life is eternal, and the concept of eternal hell is absurd.

[WisteriaWinds]

In all fairness Jesus clearly taught in many places that consciousness survives death. Here he is talking about quality of existence.

Everyday we witness our actions produce outcomes and varying degrees of life quality. There's no good reason to assume that principle magically stops playing out somewhere down the road.

[3bob]

the cycles of "life" and "death" are going on and on... beyond that is a non-evolutionary "that" which is. 

btw, the heavens contrast to the hells for there is not one without the other 

[Aetherous]

Perhaps "eternal life" meant more than simply continuing into the afterlife as all people do.

[dawei]

Maybe Jesus was teaching the 'eternal now' to the questioner... as if to say, you look to the future but you can embrace 'now'.  Embrace now and you embrace the eternal.

 

[Jeff]

"Good master, what must I do to have eternal life?" -a rich man asked Jesus

 

"Sell all that you have, and give it to the poor, then come and follow me." -Jesus

 

Well, I certainly don't mean this as a judgment against Jesus, but he might have done better to say, "Absolutely nothing. You already have it!"

 

Life is eternal, and the concept of eternal hell is absurd.

 

I think you may be missing the point of the quote. Jesus is basically saying... Drop your earthly attachments and follow him focusing on the spiritual rather than the physical stuff.

 

This quote from the gospel describes the point...

 

1 Corinthians 15:42-49

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

 

 

[doc benway]

"Good master, what must I do to have eternal life?" -a rich man asked Jesus

 

"Sell all that you have, and give it to the poor, then come and follow me." -Jesus

 

 

Well, I certainly don't mean this as a judgment against Jesus, but he might have done better to say, "Absolutely nothing. You already have it!"

 

 

Life is eternal, and the concept of eternal hell is absurd.

 

Some alternative perspectives:

 

He may already have it but he doesn't realize it.

Jesus is trying to help the man to let go of what is obscuring the fact that what he's looking for is patiently waiting.

 

Life is eternal and yet we see generation after generation of humans enduring unimaginable suffering.

The cycle of pain and confusion doesn't seem to end.

Hell is as good a word as any to describe this.

 

I think it's all a matter of how we look at things. 

[3bob]

even light is a thing... and a spiritual body woven of light is still a thing and although very refined it is not Brahman beyond all categories

[Jonesboy]

“Let no one deceive you! God is light (11) and to those who have entered into union with Him He imparts of His own brightness to the extent that they have been purified.

 

When the lamp of the soul, that is the mind, has been kindled, then it knows that a divine fire has taken hold of it and inflamed it. How great a marvel! Man is united to God spiritually and physically, since the soul is not separated from the mind, neither the body from the soul…

 

It is evident that just as the Father abides in His own Son (12) and the Son in His Father’s bosom (13) by nature, so those who have been born anew through the divine Spirit (14) and by His gift have become the brothers of Christ our God and sons of God and gods by adoption, by grace abide in God and God in them (15).”

 

St Symeon The New Theologian And Messalianism

 

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Edited May 18, 2016 by Jonesboy

[Cheshire Cat]

"Good master, what must I do to have eternal life?" -a rich man asked Jesus

 

"Sell all that you have, and give it to the poor, then come and follow me." -Jesus

 

 

Well, I certainly don't mean this as a judgment against Jesus, but he might have done better to say, "Absolutely nothing. You already have it!"

 

 

Life is eternal, and the concept of eternal hell is absurd.

 

You're definitely better than Jesus

[Cheshire Cat]

Perhaps "eternal life" meant more than simply continuing into the afterlife as all people do.

 

What if Jesus genuinely believed that he could make his followers immortals after the establishment of his kingdom on earth and the end of roman's occupation?

[3bob]

an aspect of God is light yet with light there is the first manifestation of duality along with created time and space for that light...as in "let there be light" so "God" beyond categories is also beyond light or being nailed down with light or in time and space.

[Jonesboy]

Would that be where void=form and form=void comes into play 3bob?

 

Void and form/light could seem dualistic until one realizes they are one and the same.

 

Like Jesus said in GOT:

 

3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you. When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

 

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Edited May 18, 2016 by Jonesboy

[Songtsan]

I would imagine that he meant an eternal life in heaven for that particular questioner, in contrast to the already existent eternal life of the soul/s.

[doc benway]

What if Jesus genuinely believed that he could make his followers immortals after the establishment of his kingdom on earth and the end of roman's occupation?

 

To me he talks about connecting to that inside which we already are that is immortal. 

You are following him in, inside yourself. He is the guru guiding us towards Kuntuzango.

Breaking down the occupation of confusion and destruction and connecting with that which is uncreated and indestructible in our very essence.

That's the kingdom - the refuge.

[3bob]

being a "child of God" is a still duality which has a place and purpose for evolution...

 

and I'd say the gap between semi-orthodox Christianity and non-dualistic Hinduism can't really be bridged even by the well meaning who would like to.

[Cheshire Cat]

To me he talks about connecting to that inside which we already are that is immortal. 

You are following him in, inside yourself. He is the guru guiding us towards Kuntuzango.

Breaking down the occupation of confusion and destruction and connecting with that which is uncreated and indestructible in our very essence.

That's the kingdom - the refuge.

 

To me, we generally tend to overestimate Jesus.

If we consider his background, his sayings and how people reacted to his presence, we can see how his figure matches with that of the leader of a big, dangerous movement of rebels.

 

There's no place in the gospels for deep spiritual understanding, apart from the "corrections" made by religious establishment. 

[doc benway]

I generally don't even consider Jesus...

I was not born or raised Christian.

But I have come to see his teachings with the perspective born of a variety of other traditions.

And I do think the teachings offer a path towards the light.

[Jeff]

To me, we generally tend to overestimate Jesus.

If we consider his background, his sayings and how people reacted to his presence, we can see how his figure matches with that of the leader of a big, dangerous movement of rebels.

 

There's no place in the gospels for deep spiritual understanding, apart from the "corrections" made by religious establishment. 

 

I would agree that Jesus brought about a big and dangerous movement...

 

“I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.”

‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:49-52‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

On the deep spiritual understanding point... I will have to respectfully disagree...

[Cheshire Cat]

[...]

On the deep spiritual understanding point... I will have to respectfully disagree...

 

I don't mean to stress this point since this is not my native language and this theme is quite intricate...

 

... but I suggest that maybe it's your spiritual understanding that hunts for meanings and profundity where the original writers were just talking about a killed man that -in their belief- was destined to come back in a few years to physically resurrect the dead and establish a kingdom of immortals.

 

In other words, you read in jesus' words what's already in your mind.

Hundreds of people did this and dozens of different christianities are still around today...

[Jonesboy]

I don't mean to stress this point since this is not my native language and this theme is quite intricate...

 

... but I suggest that maybe it's your spiritual understanding that hunts for meanings and profundity where the original writers were just talking about a killed man that -in their belief- was destined to come back in a few years to physically resurrect the dead and establish a kingdom of immortals.

 

In other words, you read in jesus' words what's already in your mind.

Hundreds of people did this and dozens of different christianities are still around today...

I see a very advanced guy/Buddha telling people how to achieve oneness and the light/rainbow/vajra body using the words of his culture.

 

I would encourage you to read The Gospel of Thomas. I have found many similarities to the teachings of Hinduism, Daoism and Buddhism.

 

All the best,

 

Tom

[Jeff]

I don't mean to stress this point since this is not my native language and this theme is quite intricate...

 

... but I suggest that maybe it's your spiritual understanding that hunts for meanings and profundity where the original writers were just talking about a killed man that -in their belief- was destined to come back in a few years to physically resurrect the dead and establish a kingdom of immortals.

 

In other words, you read in jesus' words what's already in your mind.

Hundreds of people did this and dozens of different christianities are still around today...

 

Again, I would respectfully disagree.  It sounds more much more like you may being doing that.  Have you read the words of Jesus, he is pretty clear on the topic...

 

Luke 17: 20-21

20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

 

Best wishes.

[Cheshire Cat]

I see a very advanced guy/Buddha telling people how to achieve oneness and the light/rainbow/vajra body using the words of his culture.

 

I would encourage you to read The Gospel of Thomas. I have found many similarities to the teachings of Hinduism, Daoism and Buddhism.

 

All the best,

 

Tom

 

I've read it: it's quite abstruse.

 

I think that Jesus had no idea on what is a diamond body.

 

Again, I would respectfully disagree.  It sounds more much more like you may being doing that.  Have you read the words of Jesus, he is pretty clear on the topic...

 

Luke 17: 20-21

20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

 

Best wishes.

 

It's clear to you because you assume that the Kingdom of God is something spiritually situated, within.

The gospels never explain plainly what it is.

 

But probably, for Jesus it was something quite different from your philosophical ideas.

 

(Mat 21:43) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof..

 

People can be parted from it

 

(Mar 14:25) Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

 

It's a place where people can drink wine

 

(Lu 7:28) For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

 

It's a place where people have ranks.

 

etc..

[Jeff]

It's clear to you because you assume that the Kingdom of God is something spiritually situated, within.

The gospels never explain plainly what it is.

 

But probably, for Jesus it was something quite different from your philosophical ideas.

 

(Mat 21:43) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof..

 

People can be parted from it

 

You have taken each of the above statements out of context and used them to support your "philosophical ideas"...

 

In context...

 

42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

 

In this context, Jesus is talking about bad teachers and how they mislead.  Similar to what Buddha would often say.

 

 

 

(Mar 14:25) Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

 

It's a place where people can drink wine

 

In this one...

 

22 And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.

23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.

24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

26 And when they had sung an hymn, they went out into the mount of Olives.

27 And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.

28 But after that I am risen, I will go before you into Galilee.

 

He is describing communion and talking about his ascension after death.  Not really talking about drinking alcohol...  

 

 

 

(Lu 7:28) For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

 

It's a place where people have ranks.

 

etc..

 

And to your point on people having ranks...

 

24 And when the messengers of John were departed, he began to speak unto the people concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness for to see? A reed shaken with the wind?

25 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts.

26 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and much more than a prophet.

27 This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.

30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?

32 They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.

33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.

34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

35 But wisdom is justified of all her children.

 

One must understand in context that Jesus is talking about "realization" as being "one with God".  Jesus specifically says in the section that "wisdom is justified of all her children".  Wisdom/Sophia part of all her children, it is more just a question if one realizes it or not.  The realized ones just sing and dance...

 

Best wishes.

[Cheshire Cat]

[...]

One must understand in context that Jesus is talking about "realization" as being "one with God".  Jesus specifically says in the section that "wisdom is justified of all her children".  Wisdom/Sophia part of all her children, it is more just a question if one realizes it or not.  The realized ones just sing and dance...

 

Best wishes.

 

It seems that you're building a new theology based on vedanta-buddhist philosophies: that's quite interesting from a sociological point of view.

 

Veritably, a term which obviously has the sole literal meaning of a tangible kingdom (and it's the only meaning that can be supported in every contexts -in the gospels-) can be various things instead, in order to suit a particular philosophy.

 

In Mat 21:43 it's the teaching, in Mar 14:25 it's the afterlife... and in Lu 7:28 it's so abstruse that I cannot even distinguish what it is.

 

Ok, let's just say that the gospels have different layers of meaning: I keep the literal one.