Sesame Credit

[dust]

China's Social Credit System:

 

https://chinacopyrightandmedia.wordpress.com/2014/06/14/planning-outline-for-the-construction-of-a-social-credit-system-2014-2020/

 

(I can't be bothered to read through this, so...)

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-34592186

 

By 2020, everyone in China will be enrolled in a vast national database that compiles fiscal and government information, including minor traffic violations, and distils it into a single number ranking each citizen.

 

That system isn't in place yet. For now, the government is watching how eight Chinese companies issue their own "social credit" scores under state-approved pilot projects.

 

One of the most high-profile projects is by Sesame Credit, the financial wing of Alibaba. With 400 million users, Alibaba is the world's biggest online shopping platform. It's using its unique database of consumer information to compile individual "social credit" scores.

 

Users are encouraged to flaunt their good credit scores to friends, and even potential mates. China's biggest matchmaking service, Baihe, has teamed up with Sesame to promote clients with good credit scores, giving them prominent spots on the company's website.

 

[...]

 

A lengthy planning document from China's elite State Council explains that social credit will "forge a public opinion environment that trust-keeping is glorious", warning that the "new system will reward those who report acts of breach of trust".

 

Details on the inner workings of the system are vague, though it is clear that each citizen and Chinese organisation will be rated. A long list of people in certain professions will face particular scrutiny, including teachers, accountants, journalists and medical doctors. The special list even includes veterinarians and tour guides.

 

 

http://qz.com/519737/all-chinese-citizens-now-have-a-score-based-on-how-well-we-live-and-mine-sucks/

 

Twelve more points would get me a 100-yuan ($16) bonus when booking hotel rooms. Sixty-two more points would get me the privilege of renting a car without putting down a deposit, or applying for a loan with an unspecified limit and interest rate. And 162 more points would get me a visa to Luxembourg.

 

Various organizations, including the American Civil Liberties Union, have argued that Sesame Credit is more than just a meme or a game— it’s evidence that the Chinese government is enacting a scheme that will monitor citizens’ finances. More frighteningly, some have suggested, one’s political views or “morality” might raise or lower one’s score.

 

[...]

 

Sesame Credit, then, works more like a loyalty program than a credit rating system. But it is possible that as its user base (36 million people so far) grows, the scope of its financial impact will extend.

 

[...]

 

What’s clear amid the muddled language is the government’s merging of politics and finance. It’s possible that the government might at some point alter one’s credit rating based on their “morality” or social status. In other words, while Sesame Credit doesn’t care if you buy sex toys instead of books, the government’s credit system might.

 

 

Well. There we are.

 

These were the least alarmist of the first articles Google came up with. The Independent basically parrots the ramblings of a YouTube video claiming that all citizens now have scores based on what "the government approves of", which is clearly not true (yet). Even the title of the article above says "All Chinese citizens..", which is shown to be untrue in the article body ("36 million people so far" is hardly "all", now, is it?)

 

So, trying not to be alarmist, is this somewhat alarming? The government could implement the kind of things that are being talked about, and I wouldn't put it past them....

Edited May 20, 2016 by dustybeijing

[Marblehead]

Alarming?  Yes.

 

Surprising?  No.

[thelerner]

My god, what next, Credit scores?

Ones that'll follow you the rest of your life, impact your employment, insurance and interest rates paid?

Please tell the Chinese I sympathize.

[dust]

My god, what next, Credit scores?

Ones that'll follow you the rest of your life, impact your employment, insurance and interest rates paid?

Please tell the Chinese I sympathize.

 

Well, that's the thing, it's more than a credit score. A credit score, as I understand it, is based on past credit history, figuring out how likely someone is to pay money back, and is used for deciding whether or not to give someone a loan, etc. In my opinion, it's not entirely unfair for a bank to do this...?

 

This social credit stuff seems to be taking it in a different direction. This is a totalitarian government with an incredible history of the abuse of basic human liberties planning on monitoring every citizen's finances closely. They're possibly not just basing the scores on debt history, but on a person's entire financial history, for which they have much easier methods of discovery than the US or UK governments (the four major banks are entirely state-owned), and they're possibly not just using these scores for banks to decide whether or not to give someone a loan.

 

We're seeing talk of rating people publicly, on online platforms, encouragement to base social relationships on these credit scores, and increased focus on certain professions, and even on students. Most of the government article is about worthwhile stuff -- higher risk of punishment for "swindlers" and cheats, increased transparency in the courts and law enforcement, etc, but some of it, I think, night warrant a bit of the alarmism in certain articles.

 

 

Actively spread the socialized application of credit products, stimulate the interaction, exchange, coordination and sharing of credit information, complete combined social credit reward and punishment mechanisms, construct a social credit environment of sincerity, self-discipline, trust-keeping and mutual trust.

 

..broaden the use of professional credit reports, and guide to construction of professional ethics and behavioural norms.

 

 

I dunno...sounds a bit off in places..

[zerostao]

sounds like an identity thief's paradise