How to "“Empty your mind down to the Lower Tan Tien"?

[Rocco]

I wonder how to perform this instruction, which can be found quite often in the Universal Tao Helaing system.

The upper mind is said to be the observer mind. Ok so far. So, does this mean visualizing/rehearse being in your Tan Tien?

If so, my problem is where to feel the Tan Tien, I mean if my eyes are in the Tan Tien now, shouldn't I feel the Tan Tien where my head actually is? Confusing.

I am thankful for help!

[thelerner]

FWIW, I'll sometimes imagine a whirlwind (sweeping up thoughts)  in my head and feel it descending down to my lower dan tien/ hara. 

 

 

In many ancient cultures the brain wasn't considered the thinking organism.  Modern science tells us it is, so we put our attention there when we think.  Some cultures don't or didn't. 

[Spotless]

I wonder how to perform this instruction, which can be found quite often in the Universal Tao Helaing system.

The upper mind is said to be the observer mind. Ok so far. So, does this mean visualizing/rehearse being in your Tan Tien?

If so, my problem is where to feel the Tan Tien, I mean if my eyes are in the Tan Tien now, shouldn't I feel the Tan Tien where my head actually is? Confusing.

I am thankful for help!

I would always look at the word "shouldn't" when it pops up - such as in "shouldn't I feel the dan Tien where my head actually is".

The upper dan Tien is generally in the center of your head and it is more like feeling an energy field though not a diffused one but not like feeling an egg either. It may incorporate in the feeling many other sections both forward, aft and above - and it may well be incorporated in the feelings of the deep front channels.

 

Many people never feel this and it is generally driven by how much you practice and how much your practice is trance vs in body.

Trance will yield far fewer results in general but some quick wow factor in the short term.

 

Often you will feel the brow chakra before feeling the center of the head and when you begin to feel the center of the head you may also become aware of the throat chakra and crown chakra - the throat chakra may feel less specific.

 

The development of the lighter bodies and awareness of them can take considerable time and effort - but it is in no-effort that the awareness becomes you. The root is in your lower dan Tien - the breath extends upward from there. You will not feel the greater portion of the upper areas without this rooting in the lower dan Tien.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Spotless

[idquest]

 

If so, my problem is where to feel the Tan Tien, I mean if my eyes are in the Tan Tien now, shouldn't I feel the Tan Tien where my head actually is? Confusing.

I am thankful for help!

 

In your own words you used more accurate term 'feel' instead of 'see' as seeing with your eyes. You don't necessarily 'see' any of three dan tians, you more likely are going to 'feel' them with all or some of your 5 senses. Usually the lower DT comes first.

[joeblast]

I wonder how to perform this instruction, which can be found quite often in the Universal Tao Helaing system.

The upper mind is said to be the observer mind. Ok so far. So, does this mean visualizing/rehearse being in your Tan Tien?

If so, my problem is where to feel the Tan Tien, I mean if my eyes are in the Tan Tien now, shouldn't I feel the Tan Tien where my head actually is? Confusing.

I am thankful for help!

extraneous thoughts manifest by way of neural crosstalk (as it were) in the midbrain resonating into higher brain centers where it manifests as thought-form-energy.  cease the resonance of the olfactory nerve and a quiet mind will naturally follow.  when focused on doing, the base energy is harnessed and there is less of a chance of thoughtformenergy manifesting.  do enough, and the medulla is programmed with the protocol of harmonious breathing, it will carry forth whether sleeping or waking.  but if you dont pedal that bike regularly, the wheels will lose their angular momentum.

[WisteriaWinds]

Don't visualize. Actually use the gut nervous system to feel it. Inhale straight down. That point where your breath stops is your LDT. Just focus on the sensation of it--in and out. No chatter necessary.

 

I wonder how to perform this instruction, which can be found quite often in the Universal Tao Helaing system.

The upper mind is said to be the observer mind. Ok so far. So, does this mean visualizing/rehearse being in your Tan Tien?

If so, my problem is where to feel the Tan Tien, I mean if my eyes are in the Tan Tien now, shouldn't I feel the Tan Tien where my head actually is? Confusing.

I am thankful for help!

[WisteriaWinds]

The irony is once your LDT truly becomes powerful you'll feel a strong, blissful magnetic sensation in the middle of your head.

 

So the way up is down.

[Rakiel]

Don't visualize. Actually use the gut nervous system to feel it. Inhale straight down. That point where your breath stops is your LDT. Just focus on the sensation of it--in and out. No chatter necessary.

 

So two questions come to mind...Should the beginner cultivator use natural or reverse breathing to accomplish this?

And finally, I am able to "induce" an energetic sensation during the exhalation, it's almost like a warm tingly sensation blows across the belly/ldt area. It's not a visual sensation, it's sort of physical, but subtle. Is this an acceptable method of bring awareness to the ldt area?

[WisteriaWinds]

I don't reverse breathe unless it happens naturally (often in deep horse). I also don't pay attention to anything but the bottom point of my breath in my belly. All other sensations are distractions as far as I'm concerned.

 

That's just me. Others have differing opinions.

[Rakiel]

Often you will feel the brow chakra before feeling the center of the head and when you begin to feel the center of the head you may also become aware of the throat chakra and crown chakra - the throat chakra may feel less specific

This is really interesting. It has happened this exact way for me.

[joeblast]

So two questions come to mind...Should the beginner cultivator use natural or reverse breathing to accomplish this?

And finally, I am able to "induce" an energetic sensation during the exhalation, it's almost like a warm tingly sensation blows across the belly/ldt area. It's not a visual sensation, it's sort of physical, but subtle. Is this an acceptable method of bring awareness to the ldt area?

natural breathing is preferable in most cases because it is easier to focus on the dynamic interactions of the physical parts.  the descent of the diaphragm needs to happen properly, and a lot of people arent going to get that right if they're simultaneously focusing on withdrawing the abdomen.  that's part of the problem with far too many descriptions of reverse breathing starting out with notation of withdrawing the abdomen on inhale, because that's the least important of the 3 structures.

[doc benway]

I wonder how to perform this instruction, which can be found quite often in the Universal Tao Helaing system.

The upper mind is said to be the observer mind. Ok so far. So, does this mean visualizing/rehearse being in your Tan Tien?

If so, my problem is where to feel the Tan Tien, I mean if my eyes are in the Tan Tien now, shouldn't I feel the Tan Tien where my head actually is? Confusing.

I am thankful for help!

 

Rather than think it through, I would focus more on simply making the connection, experientially.

It's all about the connection.

 

Feel what it feels like inside the dan tian, with an awareness other than visual and spacial representation.

Pay attention to the feeling that connects your attention with the inner space. 

 

The connection between body and mind feels different when we pay attention and becomes a fascinating journey in these practices. 

When it gets confusing, be more sensitive to what it feels like inside.

Good luck!

[freeform]

Dropping your source of awareness to your lower dan tien is a confusing matter for most westerners - but, interestingly, not for people living a 'simpler' life... they seem to just do it. I suspect dropping your awareness was quite a simple instruction back in the olden days, but requires a bit of training for most modern people.

 

Basically your way of attending is of crucial importance. Culturally we tend to prefer a narrow, single-pointed, 'focused' way of attending. For example if right now you visually scanned your immediate environment left to right, you'd most likely notice that your attention 'jumps' from thing to thing, rather than doing a smooth movement. You automatically and habitually jump from 'computer' to 'chair' to 'light' etc.

 

Attending from the lower dan tien has a very different quality. Your attention is less like a focused beam of light and more like a bare lightbulb illuminating everything at once (and the space between!) It's a less effortful way of attending - it's like letting things come to you rather then trying to pull things in.

 

So that's the qualitative difference, but how do you get there?

 

A good teacher would definitely help in this as it'll take a bit of time and feedback - so that you know you're doing it right.

 

Some things you can play with that may help...

 

Firstly locate your dan tien... Again - an involved thing, and surprising how many people get it wrong. The key point is that it's not on the surface of your belly, but deep inside. The sensation of when you 'touch' the dan tien with your attention is a bit like a magnetic pulling/pushing sensation.

 

Start to pay attention to the space between things as much as the things themselves. For example right now, sense the space around you - to the left, right, above, below, in front, behind... Sense the space between your hands and your face... internally sense the space, the distance between the top of your head and the bottom of your feet... the space between your chest and your back... use it as a slow, unhurried exploration and notice the difference in the quality of your attention... does it feel more diffuse? softer? More gentle in its action?

 

It's also useful to be able to play and be flexible with your 'locus' of attention. Initially it's easier to try this visually with an object in front of you. I have a tea cup in front of me - I move my attention from inside of me to the cup - then I put my awareness to myself from the point of view of the cup... so as if I'm the cup looking at myself. It's weird and disorienting at first and you might think you don't get how to do it - or feel like you're not doing it right. But play with it some more. Do it with a person as an object... or a tree...

 

After playing with this for a while you'll feel like you and the object become one... that's a good indication of progress. Now just do it with your lower dan tien!

 

This is how you attend from the lower dan tien. Or at least the more 'advanced' way of doing it. This level of practice is rare in most HT practitioners I've met - especially ones practicing from books. Some teachers also call this the 'qigong state'. You may notice that just being in this state in the correct posture will get qi moving very strongly by itself.

 

Best of luck in your practice!

Edited May 23, 2016 by freeform

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

Traditionally speaking there are three major ways of doing this:

the Southern and Middle school of quanzhen Daoism simply generally focus on the lower dantian area while breathing naturally.  This is the most natural way to do it. you should learn to do it with your eyes closed while sitting, but eventually you can do it even when you are walking around.

The Northern school typically starts by shutting out the five gates: eyes, earns, nose, mouth, and tongue.   Ideally, close your eyes, ignore sounds coming to your ears, relax the tongue with it sitting on the roof of the mouth, and breathe naturally, without taking in scents from the room around you.  In other words, ignore your major sensory organs.  Staying like this long enough will naturally draw the mind to the lower dantian, as well as begin to affect the meridian systems of the body.

 

A modern take on it from Jiang Weiqiao is that you can actually breathe in such as a way that your diaphragm begins to lightly extend downward on the in breath and relaxes on the out.  Once you can naturlaly open and close the diaphragm, you can begin to use the same feeling to draw the breath to the dantian.

No matter whose school you follow, you should always keep a quiet, peaceful, and empty mindset.  Don't force it, but don't forget to set the mind to the work you are taking up.  Stay relaxed and calm, forget your body, and join your breath, energy, and mind as one energy.

[exorcist_1699]

 You don't   "Empty your mind down to the Lower Tan Tien" , instead, you make use of  the  lower Dantian to help you empty your mind . The best , thorough way is to start your Dantian from emptiness, ie,  not from inside or outside of your body , not from upper or lower, but from nowhere ;  in that case ,  you don't have to worry about  doing any  "empty " jobs afterwards...

 

And, there is no need to divide  "  upper " mind , lower mind or " observer's  mind " , it is just No Mind. No Mind is closest to the high-quality Qi , unrestricted  by any perspective . 

Edited May 25, 2016 by exorcist_1699

[mindtooloud]

extraneous thoughts manifest by way of neural crosstalk (as it were) in the midbrain resonating into higher brain centers where it manifests as thought-form-energy.  cease the resonance of the olfactory nerve and a quiet mind will naturally follow.  when focused on doing, the base energy is harnessed and there is less of a chance of thoughtformenergy manifesting.  do enough, and the medulla is programmed with the protocol of harmonious breathing, it will carry forth whether sleeping or waking.  but if you dont pedal that bike regularly, the wheels will lose their angular momentum.

im sorry to ask this but could you explain this in simpler words, i understood parts of it and it makes sense to me but there are a few gaps 

[joeblast]

sure.  I only noticed this once I had established the neural quiescence sufficiently well.  (quiet nerves  - think "restrain the senses" - but this is not a case where the opposite nullifies.  there is only a do, there is no try.  e.g. there is no way to "try not to think"...one simply establishes another avenue for the energy whereby it does not manifest as thought-stream-energy.)

 

have a look at the cranial nerves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cranial_nerves

 

so what happens is, sensate input causes the nerves to wiggle and produce energetic potentials.

 

the way to quiet them down relates to each of the cranial nerves functions.

 

 

 

 

so quiet, and sitting still, helps pacify the vestibulocochlear nerve, (anecdotally, Astronauts also show increased theta when they become weightless during orbital flights)

 

unfocused look down the nose (but not at the nose at all, its unfocused) quiets the ocular and eye-movement cranial nerves (movement and focus are intimately tied together, the movement focused ones exist in a push-pull configuration that  sometimes makes eye relaxation tough)

 

the olfactory nerve will detect airflow and, in coordination with the vagus nerve, prompt the heart or lungs to respond if airflow is high ( heart trigger)  or blood CO2 gets high (breath trigger)

 

the vagus nerve is calmed by smooth coordinated gut movement - conversely, herky jerky gut movement will stimulate the vagus nerve and prompt other structures for action.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

it is this sensate input that forms a matrix of feedback mechanisms, and the trick is how to manage the things one has control over, so as to bring the body into a low consumption, high efficiency state that does not trigger the feedback mechanisms of the body, since that will thwart the attempts at maximizing the efficiency and lowering the consumption. 

 

 

the nerves will resonate one way or another - but there is a big difference between an "excitatory" resonance and an "inhibitory" resonance.   what this is accomplishing is transforming what is normally a lot of excitatory resonance into  its yin counterpart of an inhibitory resonance.

 

 

 

this is why one shouldnt use his airways to move air when performing meditative breathing, because it locally increases the air flow at the olfactory nerve sites, stimulating the olfactory nerve, and increasing the corresponding neural cascades. 

 

with the additional notation that it takes emphasis off of the diaphragm and reduces the energetic efficiency of the breath.

 

 

 

 

 

 

this forms the basis, at a neurological level

 

this fine tuning is part and parcel of anapanasati

 

for it is the fine tuned mechanics or breathwork that accomplish these things at the neurological level.

 

 

 

 

 

with that said,

 

 

prior to such high efficiency states being attained, idle energy naturally has a pathway established in the human brain that perks up and manifests as thought-form-energy

 

 

attaining high efficiency states tends to reduce the occurrence of thoughtform manifestation,

 

but,

 

it was the addition of the turning the light around technique that fine tunes and focuses the energy at the niwan

 

 when combined with the high efficiency state, the light (re)turning has the effect of attenuating the pathway by which thoughtform energy bubbles out from the niwan and hitches a ride on the many logical loops in the midbrain's wiring, and takes a ride up into the higher brain centers where the thoughtform energy actually manifests as thought.

 

 

the fruits of anapanasati, once attained, form the basis for all "more energetic" practices, its why meditation is begun and ended with it.  but the great stillness only happens deeply, truly, thoroughly, once the work has been put in.

 

but one should not kid himself into thinking that once such an accomplishment is made, that it cannot be diminished, or disappear altogether.  hence the need to keep pedaling the bike of anapanasati.

 

 

 

 

 

“When every phenomenon is reduced to one,
then where is that one reduced to?”

 

“When all things are viewed in their oneness, we return to
our original nature.”

[joeblast]

Maybe someone who has the original text will eventually chime in!  The instructions I got were also "to the palate."  The reason I ask is that "soft palate" is usually specified if "to the palate" means something other than "behind the upper front teeth" -- in the book it is "soft palate behind the front teeth" which may mean either a specific spot or a glitch in translation.  Immediately behind the front teeth we have the hard palate, one has to move the tongue much farther back for it to touch the soft palate.  So I want to figure out if it's really necessary (as it is used, e.g., in some yogic positions for the tongue, which are specific and important) or just that the word slipped into the translation accidentally.  

oh, why touch the tongue behind the palate?  yes, it links things, but what? 

 

this ties into the matter of why,  when the energy rises to the niwan, are tears, saliva, emptying of the sinuses produced?

 

investigating the innervation of the palate and the tongue,  you see that that...

 

2 branches of the trigeminal nerve are linked;

links the glossopharyngeal nerve

links the vagus nerve  (v3 branch goes toward the front of tongue, etc)

 

 

maxillary branch of the trigeminal goes through mouth, some sinus innervation...this is why the initial energizing produces saliva, etc

 

 

glossopharyngeal links to the hypothalamus, which links the nervous system to the endocrine system, via the pituitary gland...   

 

 

it is the changing of the resonant mode of the neural dynamic that allows for deep longevity breathing to enable the "top down" endocrine control mechanism and give that metabolic boost just like after 3, 4 weeks of workouts

 

 

behind the teeh=more maxillary focus

but the other positions, e.g. soft palate, shift the focus a bit more to the vagus nerve since the innervation of the soft palate is more vagus focused.  greater palatine in front, to lesser palatine in the middle where maxilla bone meets palatine bone, glossopharyngeal a bit more towards back of hard palate, then more vagus in the soft palate...

 

 

=connections for....as below, so above

 

(its why when I wiggle my tongue at the incisive foramen, yinyang wiggles too...if I do it at the junction of maxilla & palatine bone, baihui dances...and   into the soft palate, niwan glows)

Edited May 26, 2016 by joeblast