Relationships seem to be a waste of time and energy?

[Taoway]

I have been trying to make a choice to just accept long term celibacy until I find someone who is genuine or also give up looking in general.

 

From what I've seen and experience in America.. cheating is very prevalent and the chances of finding a girl who is traditionally minded and simple is very rare. It seems a majority of them are influenced by feminist culture and feel they need to satisfy there enslaved sexyal needs and so have many partners by the time they are in their mid 20s.

 

To each their own but it's unfortunate when that kind of personality I'd the majority in my age range 18-24.

 

And through experience I have had two long term relationships. The first one I was cheated on all through out. And the second one she emotionally got involved in other guys and possible physically too. So I don't know what to think. Some of you on here don't think celibacy is the way to go yet.. what am I to do when I don't have a partner can't find one but have a desire for one?

 

Celibacy and cultivation seems the only smart option for this time in my life?

[Taoway]

Really I'm asking for a discussion on this. It's really a difficult thing to deal with I'm sure many can relate.

[Karl]

Women with values like yours do exist but it's important to differentiate recreational sex from sex in a committed, intimate relationship.

 

Living a celibate lifestyle is fine if that what you have chosen, but if you are actually looking for a partner then you are effectively evading the effort required to find someone to share your life with. If you can do without sex then that's fine, but it isn't a necessity either way.

 

It's often necessary to go through several relationships in order to learn from your mistakes and apply the lessons to your future goal. Figure out what you want, be consistent, go to places and join communities which best represent your virtues and values; be discriminative, know your like/dislikes and find out in advance if your potential partner shares those values. It's not easy, but it's worth the search if life on your own is unpalatable. Don't drown yourself in practices in order to avoid the effort and experience of failure, embrace both.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Karl

[Taoway]

Women with values like yours do exist but it's important to differentiate recreational sex from sex in a committed, intimate relationship.

 

Living a celibate lifestyle is fine if that what you have chosen, but if you are actually looking for a partner then you are effectively evading the effort required to find someone to share your life with. If you can do without sex then that's fine, but it isn't a necessity either way.

 

It's often necessary to go through several relationships in order to learn from your mistakes and apply the lessons to your future goal. Figure out what you want, be consistent, go to places and join communities which best represent your virtues and values; be discriminative, know your like/dislikes and find out in advance if your potential partner shares those values. It's not easy, but it's worth the search if life on your own is unpalatable. Don't drown yourself in practices in order to avoid the effort and experience of failure, embrace both.

I'm sorry but sometimes a failing relationship with a girl who is very manipulative can set you back pretty far.

 

And to find someone special can't I just find them through work or something? Like become friends with them first. Or is that unlikely. Is the only way to find a partner to hit on them and ask them out.

[Taoway]

In either case. I feel very hopeless about it all. I feel like I am born in the wrong world. Because when I see all these stories of women who just weren't emotionally entertained enough in their marriages so they decide to have an affair. Or many.

 

What the fuck is wrong with women today? That isn't a preference to be promiscuous it's a perversion. It's a reflection of our sick pleasure seeking desire ridden society. It fuckin scares me.

 

Statistically men are happier in marriages too. Men are just trying to live a simple life and settle down. Yet women seem to be so influenced by shitty media and entertainment that they feel they need more spice in their lives. Cus they "deserve it".

 

And often these women have kids and are putting their sexual gratification above raising their kids... this seems so common! They shouldn't be having kids! Only people who want to actually spend their time raising kids who have them. Animals don't do this shit..

 

When a female animal has kids. She pretty much let's go of all instinct of finding a mate and just nurtures her young. Yet I heard a story of a women who left her son playing on the playground to have an affair with some guy in a bathroom...

 

It's so sickening. I don't want to wait around for a girl in this kind of dating pool.

 

I'm sorry for this I guess I'm venting more then anything. It would help if anyone related to this feeling and shared how they deal with it

[Karl]

I'm sorry but sometimes a failing relationship with a girl who is very manipulative can set you back pretty far.

And to find someone special can't I just find them through work or something? Like become friends with them first. Or is that unlikely. Is the only way to find a partner to hit on them and ask them out.

 

Well you will have to pick yourself up, dust yourself down and get back out there. We all get setbacks, the thing is to learn the lessons and avoid the manipulative ones next time. We all go through this, it's life, put on a record, get drunk, go out with your friends and do stuff. It isn't a race, take your time to find the right one and reject every single girl without compromise if the target of your ardour doesn't match your expectations. Make a list of questions and find out by asking her about what she would do if ....? In those circumstances. Everyone likes to talk about themselves so have fun with it and enjoy life.

[liminal_luke]

I find myself, somewhat surprisingly, in total agreement with Karl here.

 

Nothing wrong with choosing celibacy and the single life.  (Not that it´s impossible to be celibate and in an nourishing emotionally close relationship at the same time.)  But...I don´t think anybody should choose celibacy out of frustration with their experiences thus-far with dating.  Relationships have a lot to recommend them, and people can learn and grow as much through their relationship(s) as with celibacy.  Maybe even more so.

 

Yes, lots of people cheat -- of both genders.  All relationships have their share of heartbreak, and often cheating or being cheated on is part of that.  I don´t wish that particular heartbreak on anyone, but it´s part of the human condition and part of the grist-for-the-mill of life experience that helps us grow.  

 

To avoid relationships because of the possibility of getting hurt, through cheating or otherwise, is to miss out on an important aspect of life, imo.

Edited May 23, 2016 by liminal_luke

[Taoway]

I already experienced it. And if a girl has cheated on someone before or has a promiscuous nature I'll stay clear. Because although relationships are a joy. They can also lead to a shorter life if it's with a person who sucks the life out of you and takes advantage of you

[Taoway]

I agree.. there is a an inertia for getting in relationships and marriages. Even for having kids. And I've even noticed that my relationship with a girl started off as genuinely unconditional friendship. But then when the relationship aspects came into play things became unbalanced.

 

I feel I just have to cross a bridge to the side of simple acceptance of being alone for now. And just embrace life as it is with out a partner. Liminal you say relationships can be very great parts of life .. but that makes me cringe because I have not even gotten close to being in a relationship with a girl in some time. So what am I to do? It really isn't that easy for some to get into a partnership where one feels safe. And why get into one where you dont?

[Karl]

 

 

This, I think, is the crux of the issue. *Very few people (men and women), actually approach relationships with a non-superficial appreciation for the humanity of the other person in the relationship. Very few actually base their relationships on the compatibilties and incompatibilities that exist in the composition of another person as-a-person.

 

Edit: *I say "very few" out of optimism. I haven't seen anyone at all approach relationships in this way. I have hope that some people somewhere might, though.

Well I doubt that I'm the only one. There has to be some kind of physical attraction though, but my experience led me to act objectively prior to even knowing what objectivism was. That approach meant I have a very successful, deep, intimate and loving relationship. We have great fun together and laugh all the time. I can only be serious when I get on the forum ;-)

Edited May 23, 2016 by Karl

[thelerner]

Cross the bridge, decide for now, at least for a year or two or three,  to focus your energy on yourself, cultivation.  You don't need to be in a constant relationships.  See what the world offers you.  Maybe after a year or two, you'll strike up some friendships with woman and a relationship will happen when you come at it in a more neutral state of mind.

 

Cause right now you're not neutral, you're full of resentment.  Not realizing your problem is echoed by tens of millions woman who have the same problem with men.  To my thinking, its human nature.   Thankfully we're not dating all woman or the majority of them, we're trying to find the one thats right for us and hopefully making ourselves right for them. 

 

When frustrated with a path, sometimes its best choose a different one.  Be celibate, gain some juice.  There's a good chance you'll get what you want in the end or find out, it wasn't what you wanted, rather you were following societies script, not your own way. 

Edited May 23, 2016 by thelerner

[futuredaze]

I feel frustrations too, but for different reasons.

 

Unless I am totally ignorant, I do not believe any women I was with cheated on me. The problems for me is how the people I have dated and been in relationships with seem to, often, be very unstable and fickle. Often they are superficial too, but that is one thing I can usually filter out. Being fickle is harder to detect, if a girl seems to be in love with me one day, then indifferent or even hating me the next day, it is very confusing and painful.

 

I am not sure if there is something about me that brings this out in women, or if for some reason I just end up with women like this. Of course it is nice to get treated like a god one day, but then to get treated like shit the next day makes it all seem false. Id rather just get treated simply, like a human, all the time.

 

I like to believe in future prospects, but I am also preparing to live in solitude just in case. I dont like the ultimate highs and lows, I basically just want a close friend with physical benefits. I really dont stay close with women after breaking up, and I have no close female friends, but I would like to have some. It does not seem like much to ask for but I have yet to find it... Maybe one day

[Taoway]

Cross the bridge, decide for now, at least for a year or two or three,  to focus your energy on yourself, cultivation.  You don't need to be in a constant relationships.  See what the world offers you.  Maybe after a year or two, you'll strike up some friendships with woman and a relationship will happen when you come at it in a more neutral state of mind.

 

Cause right now you're not neutral, you're full of resentment.  Not realizing your problem is echoed by tens of millions woman who have the same problem with men.  To my thinking, its human nature.   Thankfully we're not dating all woman or the majority of them, we're trying to find the one that right for us and hopefully making ourselves right for them. 

 

When frustrated with a path, sometimes its best choose a different one.  Be celibate, gain some juice.  There's a good chance you'll get what you want in the end or find out, it wasn't what you wanted, rather you were following societies script, not your own way. 

 

Thanks for this. I had this in mind just a week ago but lost track of it.  Your last statement is exactly whats going on. Im not following my own script at all. I am falling to what is expected out of people in general.. or what other peoples scripts are.

 

I can relate a lot to what carl jung says about feeling alone.  "loneliness does not come from not having people around you, but from being unable to be able to communicate the things that are important to you".

 

I know i wouldn't fall into lonely pits like this if i had a friend or two who i could speak about the deeper things in life with. Hobbies passions creations ideas philosophies etc. So its often hard to explore those things just by myself. Although like a psychedelic experience or death that can only be traveled alone.. I should try to embrace the things i love entirely alone and at ease. 

 

My goal is definitely to just become whole hearted and content sitting alone. Always welcoming and easily letting go those who do come and go.

[Taoway]

I feel frustrations too, but for different reasons.

 

Unless I am totally ignorant, I do not believe any women I was with cheated on me. The problems for me is how the people I have dated and been in relationships with seem to, often, be very unstable and fickle. Often they are superficial too, but that is one thing I can usually filter out. Being fickle is harder to detect, if a girl seems to be in love with me one day, then indifferent or even hating me the next day, it is very confusing and painful.

 

I am not sure if there is something about me that brings this out in women, or if for some reason I just end up with women like this. Of course it is nice to get treated like a god one day, but then to get treated like shit the next day makes it all seem false. Id rather just get treated simply, like a human, all the time.

 

I like to believe in future prospects, but I am also preparing to live in solitude just in case. I dont like the ultimate highs and lows, I basically just want a close friend with physical benefits. I really dont stay close with women after breaking up, and I have no close female friends, but I would like to have some. It does not seem like much to ask for but I have yet to find it... Maybe one day

I have had this happen to me too. I read somewhere where a guy was explaining it with a scale saying when hes single he is usually at a 7 of general happiness. Sometimes that goes to a 6 and somethings it reaches a 8 or 9 maybe one day 10. 

 

But with a relationship or a girl he would be able to reach the 8 or 9 level of happiness but also faces some 4-5 levels of unhappiness pretty often. And then a very low 2 -3 level of unhappiness when she leaves or cheats or the relationship just falls apart.

 

Relationships with the wrong women seem to make the highs higher and the lows more frequent haha. 

 

I really admire what you said with just preparing for a life of solitude which to many may sound depressing but to me sounds like a very admirable and positive thing to prepare for. Because aren't we all going to have to face being physically alone one day? I will do this too. Thank you

[liminal_luke]

I agree with TheLerner that it´s fine to decide to be celibate for now, to concentrate on yourself.  Who knows...maybe a period of celibacy is exactly what you need to get yourself to the point where the next relationship you get it will be a good one?  And I´m certainly not recommending being in a relationship where you´re not happy in any way just for the sake of the relationship. I read a quote somewhere that it takes a very fine relationship to beat being single.  Amen to that.

 

After a long and unhappy marriage with my father, my mom found the first long-term fulfilling relationship of her life when she was in her fifties.  She thought it was odd, finding "the one" so late in life, but I think it´s that way for many folks.  Sometimes we need to go through lots of life to get to the point of being mature enough to attract and keep the partner that truly makes us happy for the long haul.

 

As a society we glamorize youth.  People may be at their sexual peak in their teens or early twentites, but they are not at their relationship peak.  For many of us, the relationship peak comes much later -- so give it time.  (Which is not to say you can´t marry your high school sweet heart and live happily ever after, cause that happens too.)

Edited May 23, 2016 by liminal_luke

[Taoway]

I agree with TheLerner that it´s fine to decide to be celibate for now, to concentrate on yourself. Who knows...maybe a period of celibacy is exactly what you need to get yourself to the point where the next relationship you get it will be a good one? And I´m certainly not recommending being in a relationship where you´re not happy in any way just for the sake of the relationship. I read a quote somewhere that it takes a very fine relationship to beat being single. Amen to that.

 

After a long and unhappy marriage with my father, my mom found the first long-term fulfilling relationship of her life when she was in her fifties. She thought it was odd, finding "the one" so late in life, but I think it´s that way for many folks. Sometimes we need to go through lots of life to get to the point of being mature enough to attract and keep the partner that truly makes us happy for the long haul.

 

As a society we glamorize youth. People may be at their sexual peak in their teens or early twentites, but they are not at their relationship peak. For many of us, the relationship peak comes much later -- so give it time. (Which is not to say you can´t marry your high school sweet heart and live happily ever after, cause that happens too.)

Good sound advice and I will use it wisely . But one thought.. when you said how teens and people in their 20s are at sexual peak.. is it likely that toward older age people don't seek only sexual gratisfaction bUT instead something deeper? Because it seems girls my age are only interested in having the most orgasms and worrying if the guy is enough to get her off Edited May 23, 2016 by bodhidharma

[liminal_luke]

Now that you bring it up, maybe I misspoke saying teens and people in their 20s are at their sexual peak. The first sexual experiences we have are unlikely to be our best, however memorable.  We haven´t yet learned to feel comfortable talking about what pleases us, to feel comfortable asking what pleases our partner. People in their twenties generally don´t have the interpersonal awareness that great sex requires.  

 

They´ve got hormones though, so there´s that.

 

It may seem like all younger people want is meaningless sex, but I don´t think that´s so.  Many younger people (and plenty of older ones too) lack the emotional maturity to cultivate great relationships, but almost all of us want emotional intimacy.  We might be scared of it.  We might push it away.  It might get glossed over in the rush for quick sexual (non) fullfillment.  But we want it, almost all of us. 

[Karl]

Good sound advice and I will use it wisely . But one thought.. when you said how teens and people in their 20s are at sexual peak.. is it likely that toward older age people don't seek only sexual gratisfaction bUT instead something deeper? Because it seems girls my age are only interested in having the most orgasms and worrying if the guy is enough to get her off

 

I was 22 when I found the love of my life. I had only 1 serious relationship prior to that time and several short flings-though I was definitely not what might be termed promiscuous because I had sufficient pride in myself not to get hooked on meaningless sex. Once I had a bit of sexual experience it struck me that, though it was fun, it wasn't really anything special. It was a physical release, a bit like drinking, it's fun, you get drunk a few times, but for me it could never be an addiction. If it happens, then it happens. I was certainly not hunting-metaphorically-around every boozer, liquor store and drinks cabinet in the hope of finding utopia.

 

I don't know what sort of women you are dating if their only interest is having an orgasm they really are in a pretty bad way. I'd move on, they sound worse than teenage boys. The attraction has to be far more than purely physical, if they are really so focused on their clitoris then they are hardly going to have much going on in their heads.

 

Celibacy sounds like a lack of self confidence rather than a choice. Maybe you need to work on that angle first. You don't have to be a chick magnet, or a super stud, I promise you I'm none of those things, but neither did I ever feel desperate or needy, but I was highly selective-as I expected women to be of me.

[Taoway]

Yeah true liminal. It's just disheartening when I hear many women speak of pleasurable sex solely on physical attributes. I was the most satisfying to my ex girlfriend only because of the deep connection we felt at the time. That it was energy we were aware of not just physical stuff.

[Taoway]

The only thing that worries me is the idea of marrying someone who becomes bored because she her self can't know what makes he feel happy and good. And seeks out another guy with out thinking of my heart.

 

Something like 30-60% of marriages will have at least one case of infedelity involved. That seems really messed up. Either I gotta try to accept open relationships or really hope I find a girl who isn't like that

[Taoway]

Very good advice as well Karl and I will do exactly thst. Being very selective. The only thing is I Wil naturally be celibate until that time. Which I don't mind. I enjoy putting sex aside in my mind if it's not on the table at the moment.

[Orion]

Most of my long-term relationships have fallen prey to infidelity. I'm not as hung up on physical cheating, which is mostly lustful and a sexual impulse, as I am betrayals of the heart, which are more calculated and deeply affecting. People who can't control their lust are incredibly common. When someone doesn't know their own heart and takes it out on you, or neglects tacit agreements and understandings, then that's a different ball game.

 

In my opinion most relationships are based on natural impulses followed by habitual behaviors. Very few people turn relationships into a personal practice. The relationship fizzles when the neurochemical rush of lust disappears. They don't want to put in the work. I've had numerous relationships fail after the honeymoon phase because the other person didn't seem to understand this.

 

I hardly reminisce about the good old days when people got married and stuck with it forever, even if they hated it. That's a whole other level of dysfunction. But... there's something to be said for deciding that separation is taboo and therefore you should prime yourself to dedicate as much effort as possible to making things work. Like spiritual ethic, relationship ethic is lacking in the modern world. The new culture of polyamory is disturbing to me, not because monogamy is necessarily some sacred cow to me, but because it appears to be a flippant justification for slovenly practices. There's no concept of containment... the energy just gets spread far and wide.

 

One thing that's important to understand though is that you're also a participant in your own demise. We are innocent in the sense that we don't actively try to hurt ourselves, but there's a lot of subconscious programming at work (from childhood, etc.) which determines the kind of partner you tend to fall for. It may not be that the world at large is unfaithful but that your partnership radar directs you toward unfaithful people. Something to consider. It took me a long time to realize I was dating some variant of my own parents, EVERY TIME, before I figured out how to break the cycle. I have learned how important it is to resolve things with your parents (either directly or through some other means) in order to stop replicating dysfunctional relationships with partners. Whoever raised you, that is your first relationship... it's the template for all others. If the past is not resolved then you may subconsciously choose people who aren't right for you in order to play out old dynamics. It's a subconscious conflict resolution strategy, and a lot of people are doing it.

 

It's best to just focus on yourself. If a major relationship is part of your dharma then you'll be driven to find it or it will come to you. The world is wide and diverse, and yes there are committal people out there. I still believe this despite all my setbacks. You just need to find someone who is at your level and doing some level of inner work, otherwise you're just partnering with an automaton who can't see their own humanity let alone yours.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Orion

[Karl]

The only thing that worries me is the idea of marrying someone who becomes bored because she her self can't know what makes he feel happy and good. And seeks out another guy with out thinking of my heart.

Something like 30-60% of marriages will have at least one case of infedelity involved. That seems really messed up. Either I gotta try to accept open relationships or really hope I find a girl who isn't like that

 

Ask questions. First you have to know what you want. Marriage isn't some sacrificial selfless worship for either party. You have to build trust, figure out why you want to be together, don't compromise either no matter how minimal it is, because it must be completely selfish to the point you share because you want to, not because you feel you have to. You have to be two very independent characters that have a common purpose in uniting because you are stronger together than you are apart. if you can't get what you are looking for then buy a cat or a dog :-) although cats aren't known for their fidelity to owners-only to food cupboards and fire sides .

[Aetherous]

I say this as advice for myself, too...because unfortunately I completely relate with how you view women in the dating realms...

Take some time, like a few months, and keep a list of every woman that you know in your life. Don't just think of potential mates, but literally every female that you encounter. Try to find the ones who you think are being good at wife/mother/girlfriend, and who have exceptional qualities...such as kindness, or frugality, etc. Try to find a few women who can act as role models for what you're looking for in a relationship.

Simply doing that will help remind you that there are good women out there. Without being reminded of it, I think we can easily fall prey to the notion that all women are corrupt...and that notion holds us back from many things in life. For instance, we desire intimacy...it's not going to happen if you keep her at a distance.

Also, perhaps treat relationships more like a transaction where you help each other live well, rather than like you're falling head over heels and being a fool in love. The latter is destructive to yourself if it ends bad. I'm not saying to protect yourself from feeling emotions...but do protect yourself from having your soul ripped out and shat on.

If she cheats, then it's not worth continuing the relationship with her. If you get in a relationship, you might find that avoiding cheating takes work, and you'll understand more of why it happens.