the confusion between strength and weakness

[roger]

I just wanted to share something with you all that has helped me tremendously, that you might find very interesting.

 

ACIM says that people see things "upside down," that things are the OPPOSITE of what they seem.

 

It says, "What seems to be your strength is really your weakness, and what seems to be your weakness is your true strength."

 

For example, most people think that aggressively defending yourself when others attack you is strength. The truth is it's weakness.

 

And it seems that "turning the other cheek" is weakness, but in reality it's strength.

 

This teaching has helped me see the world in a new and far more loving way.

[Karl]

Only if you consider death as strength and life as weakness. It's true that you can't hurt the dead anywhere near as much as the living.

 

That's why collectivist and religious ideologies centre around the sacrifice of self, either to 'the greater good' (state/society) or to God (heaven). They are predominantly anti-life and tell people to be selfless so they get a better life in heaven, or die a glorious death for the nation state.

 

So, if death is you aim and you wish to sacrifice your life for some higher ideal then strength is weakness, just as hate is love, war is peace. Orwell would have made you a character in his book.

 

See, you have actually given up, surrendered, laid down and stopped struggling. It feels peaceful because death is peaceful. When you drowning and give up the struggle then all is peaceful, your life is ended and you accepted it. To do that in everyday life is to deny the value of your life. It's living suicide.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Karl

[roger]

Thanks, Karl.

 

You very well could be correct.

 

I never cared much for the whole idea of "sacrifice" either.

 

Religions that teach people to sacrifice themselves do more harm than good in my opinion.

 

ACIM says, "Your little part is but to offer up to the Holy Spirit the whole idea of sacrifice."

 

It teaches that people confuse love and sacrifice, and says that "love would never ask for sacrifice."

 

It's another example of how most people have it "upside down." They equate love with sacrifice, whereas the reality is that REAL love is SELF-affirming.

[Karl]

 

It teaches that people confuse love and sacrifice, and says that "love would never ask for sacrifice."

 

It's another example of how most people have it "upside down." They equate love with sacrifice, whereas the reality is that REAL love is SELF-affirming.

 

Love COULD never ask for sacrifice. Love is selfish not selfless. Sacrifice is antithetical to love. Love is LIFE affirming. Life and love vs death and hate. Good vs Evil. Sacrifice=selflessness and life=selfishness. I'm talking about rational selfishness and not the emotional state.

 

[roger]

Love COULD never ask for sacrifice. Love is selfish not selfless. Sacrifice is antithetical to love. Love is LIFE affirming. Life and love vs death and hate. Good vs Evil. Sacrifice=selflessness and life=selfishness. I'm talking about rational selfishness and not the emotional state.

 

I agree.

 

But I just want to explain one thing about the whole idea of "turning the other cheek."

 

ACIM emphatically teaches that to retaliate when others attack you- to attack them back- is UN-SELF-LOVING.

 

And to respond with LOVE when others attack you is SELF-LOVING.

 

I can see how people could think that's absurd, but if you really, deeply contemplate the matter, the wisdom of it can become apparent.

 

We should respond to attacks lovingly for OURSELVES- for OUR OWN sake- not just for the one who attacked us.

 

I can only say that I've learned from my own EXPERIENCE that retaliation when attacked is not truly self-loving.

 

I've also experienced the power and self-love that come from responding to attacks lovingly.

 

You see, respond with love first for YOURSELF, and know that it's also best for the one you're loving.

 

Peace.

[Orion]

This is too semantic and arbitrary. The values espoused are all based on external appearances but we can't assume the root reasons for them based on those appearances. That's just projection.

 

It's best to find the points of resistance and suffering within yourself, and debunk those. Simply categorizing behaviors and beliefs as strong or weak, divorced from context, is not going to yield much ideological fruit apart from maybe temporarily make yourself feel like you're controlling an experience. One person's weak is another person's strong, based on environment, circumstance, upbringing, and many other factors.

[Karl]

I agree.

 

But I just want to explain one thing about the whole idea of "turning the other cheek."

 

ACIM emphatically teaches that to retaliate when others attack you- to attack them back- is UN-SELF-LOVING.

 

And to respond with LOVE when others attack you is SELF-LOVING.

 

I can see how people could think that's absurd, but if you really, deeply contemplate the matter, the wisdom of it can become apparent.

 

We should respond to attacks lovingly for OURSELVES- for OUR OWN sake- not just for the one who attacked us.

 

I can only say that I've learned from my own EXPERIENCE that retaliation when attacked is not truly self-loving.

 

I've also experienced the power and self-love that come from responding to attacks lovingly.

 

You see, respond with love first for YOURSELF, and know that it's also best for the one you're loving.

 

Peace.

 

I used to get close to adopting that policy when I was nominally libertarian (the non-aggression principle) but eventually I saw the enormous flaw in it. Try responding lovingly to a bull elephant intent on crushing you to death, or a Shark with its teeth around your leg. When someone tries violence you must respond with force or you are inviting evil and chaos to reign. Love does not work against force. Reason does not work against the irrational. Reason cannot thrive where force is operable and thence love dies.

 

Though I walk through the valley of death I fear no evil.

Because I am armed with my rod, staff and reason.

By heck, anyone trying to stiff me better watch out because I will beat them to a bloody pulp and then find like minded peaceful people with which I can engage in love.

 

Don't turn the other cheek. If someone wants to seriously physical aggress against you, then you had better strike first or you won't be around to do much loving ;-) your first responsibility is to yourself and the values you hold. Anything that unreasonably, or violently gets in the way of you or your values have no hesitation. Smash them to dust so they can't do it to you or anyone else. You have a responsibility to smash evil where you find it, to face it bravely, to proceed with solemnity, without any joy or emotion, to dispatch the thing with as little pain as possible and to take no pleasure, or reward from the experience.

 

 

 

 

[roger]

This is too semantic and arbitrary. The values espoused are all based on external appearances but we can't assume the root reasons for them based on those appearances. That's just projection.

 

It's best to find the points of resistance and suffering within yourself, and debunk those. Simply categorizing behaviors and beliefs as strong or weak, divorced from context, is not going to yield much ideological fruit apart from maybe temporarily make yourself feel like you're controlling an experience. One person's weak is another person's strong, based on environment, circumstance, upbringing, and many other factors.

 

The way I see it is that, generally speaking, to LOVE is strength, and to attack is weakness.

 

I know that's a very general statement, but it can be applied to specific situations with keen perception.

[thelerner]

When you get strong enough, you can see attacks for what they are and ignore them because they're petty and harmless.  When mature enough you don't need to counter attack every perceived slight, you stop playing childish games (or play them less).  When wise enough you go around objects instead of hitting against them due to pride. 

 

Weakness is a poor label for it.  Rather turning the other cheek, letting things go, is another kind of strength, a more mature one.  Don't get me wrong, defend yourself when in danger, but see lesser attacks in there true light, no threat, just a minor annoyance we make bigger by focusing on them. 

Edited May 26, 2016 by thelerner

[Karl]

The way I see it is that, generally speaking, to LOVE is strength, and to attack is weakness.

 

I know that's a very general statement, but it can be applied to specific situations with keen perception.

 

It is if you are attacking and not simply defending yourself from attack/potential attack.

 

I agree with Lerner, in most cases you walk away from conflict if it isn't going to come back at a later stage. It's one thing avoiding conflict and quite another to take the stance of a pacifist-which is cowardice and it's not just name calling, it's the potential of letting evil manifest. In most cases you call the cops on your behalf and let law take its course. For 'slights' name calling, offensiveness you don't even need to care, it should glance off you if you are secure and confident. Just pursue your argument rationally and poke a bit of fun at the name caller.

[silent thunder]

When you get strong enough, you can see attacks for what they are and ignore them and because they're petty and harmless.  When mature enough you don't need to counter attack every perceived slight, you stop playing childish games (or play them less).  When wise enough you go around objects instead of hitting against them due to pride. 

 

Weakness is poor label for it.  Rather turning the other cheek, letting things go, is another kind of strength, a more mature one.  Don't get me wrong, defend yourself when in danger, but see lesser attacks in there true light, no threat, just a minor annoyance we make bigger by focusing on them. 

well put my friend.

[Wells]

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Edited June 4, 2016 by Wells

[roger]

LOL! You are the perfect longterm victim for a malignant narcissist!

If I were you I would watch out when a woman lays eyes on you...it could be the eye of a manipulative predator sensing a perfect prey for delightful longterm abuse.

 

I love you, Wells, and I know you love me too

[Wells]

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Edited June 4, 2016 by Wells

[Teddy]

https://inpursuitofhappiness.wordpress.com/2013/12/19/a-course-in-miracles-a-cia-exercise-in-mind-control/

 

Is this an interesting article? Was a course in miracles a CIA psy-op?

[Karl]

https://inpursuitofhappiness.wordpress.com/2013/12/19/a-course-in-miracles-a-cia-exercise-in-mind-control/

Is this an interesting article? Was a course in miracles a CIA psy-op?

 

You might want to chase up 'the burning man'.

[Teddy]

The title of this thread is 'the confusion between strength and weakness'.

 

I've heard it said that one practises martial arts so that one can walk away from a fight (rather than run away).

 

Strength is walking away.

(However, strength can also sometimes be standing your ground and kicking arse. It all depends... Strength can be lots of things. If you're strong in some kind've way... Well, that's strength.)

[C T]

Personally, i do not feel that there ought to be any confusion between the two. 

It has been said that the greatest strength comes from limitless kindness and gentleness. 

 

There are, however, persistent confusion among so-called practitioners between the known, knowing, and not knowing. 

 

The known, meaning accumulated memories, can stun a person so tragically that basic beauty, strength, goodness and potential gets enmeshed and mired by doubt, trauma and self-defeating habits associated with the past. In this, clarity slowly degenerates, uncertainties creep in, and could result in being so stuck in the past that helplessness is all that one feels, like a goat being slowly suffocated by a boa constrictor. What little strength is there eventually is snuffed out, and one becomes paralysed and fearful from dark imaginings churned up in dreams and regretful thoughts.  

 

To be in a state of knowing all the time is best. This suggests flexibility and a readiness to respond adequately and spontaneously to any given situation. In such a state, it is easy to maintain a sense of equilibrium, thereby cultivating a state that has no room for frivolous wastage of energy since one's mind and body is always in a state of rest. This is the ideal vantage point, one that naturally inspires inner confidence, mental dexterity and physical vigour. No longer pulled by hope and fear, ego is finally mastered, allowing genuine pride to surface, all the while not losing perspective on the value of true humility. 

 

Finally, not knowing is simply to remain in an ignorant state usually by choice. This is the least conducive ground for any personal development to evolve. One who is imprisoned by ignorance is usually ruled by anger, lust, perversion and vengeful thoughts. Needless to say, even if one were to possess the physical might of an elephant but remain prone to one or more of these negativities, gradually, if not rectified, the end result will be the rise of habitual self-hate and a continuity of ever-deepening delusion.