the three discoveries

[roger]

A very helpful teaching from one of the first spiritual books I ever read is from Passage Meditation by Eknath Easwaran.

 

The three discoveries are:

 

1. You are not your body.

 

2. You are not the identity, self, or personality you've created.

 

3. The realization of what you are. (which is mostly an experiential, not intellectual, knowledge)

 

I'm not 100% sure about this, because I haven't had all three of these realizations, but I feel strongly that they come in order, and probably, at least in most cases, years apart.

 

"Years apart" is definitely not an absolute though in my opinion, which is why I said in MOST cases.

Edited May 31, 2016 by roger

[Marblehead]

I admire your dedication to your belief system.  I don't necessarily agree with it though.

 

I will hold to my Three Treasures though.

[roger]

I admire your dedication to your belief system.  I don't necessarily agree with it though.

 

I will hold to my Three Treasures though.

 

What are the "Three Treasures"?

[Marblehead]

What are the "Three Treasures"?

From Robert Henricks' translation of the TTC:

 

7. The first is compassion;

8.  The second is frugality;

9.  And the third is not presuming to be at the forefront in the world.

 

I have reduced them to:

 

Compassion

Conservativism

Humility

[vonkrankenhaus]

Re:

-----

"The three discoveries are:

 

1. You are not your body.

 

2. You are not the identity, self, or personality you've created.

 

3. The realization of what you are. (which is mostly an experiential, not intellectual, knowledge)"

-----

 

How did you, or anyone else, come to believe the opposite in the first place?

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

[Songtsan]

@Marblehead -> How can one be compassion, when compassion is a feeling and feelings require a body to produce said feeling? Even if it's a light body.

 

Awareness can have many bodies, even if they are 'light bodies,' but what, if nothing else, is left if the bodies keep being shed?

 

Egos are also programs kept in the body...ask me to describe and I will...

[Bud Jetsun]

Re:

-----

"The three discoveries are:

 

1. You are not your body.

 

2. You are not the identity, self, or personality you've created.

 

3. The realization of what you are. (which is mostly an experiential, not intellectual, knowledge)"

-----

 

How did you, or anyone else, come to believe the opposite in the first place?

 

 

 

 

 

-VonKrankenhaus

 

 

None of these 3 things were an awareness in my reality until my first psychedelic mushroom experience.  

 

After it seemed preposterous they had not been self-evident, but it's impossible to know if I ever would have made the life changing realizations without the entheogen catalyst. 

 

When a being is inside the thickly constructed fog of delusion, it's impossible to detect the presence of the fog because no alternative to fog has been experienced. 

 

Unlimited Love,

-Bud

[Marblehead]

@Marblehead -> How can one be compassion, when compassion is a feeling and feelings require a body to produce said feeling? Even if it's a light body. Awareness can have many bodies, even if they are 'light bodies,' but what, if nothing else, is left if the bodies keep being shed? Egos are also programs kept in the body...ask me to describe and I will...

Having compassion; Being conservative; Being humble.

 

You can never shed your body.  No body, no existence.

 

True compassion requires empathy.  If you can't feel how the other feels you can never offer appropriate compassion (and assistance if possible).

 

Compassion is not something mysterious.  It is a natural response, a feeling of true concern.  People who are not compassionate are considered cold.  And cold is similar to death.

[Karl]

A very helpful teaching from one of the first spiritual books I ever read is from Passage Meditation by Eknath Easwaran.

 

The three discoveries are:

 

1. You are not your body.

 

2. You are not the identity, self, or personality you've created.

 

3. The realization of what you are. (which is mostly an experiential, not intellectual, knowledge)

 

I'm not 100% sure about this, because I haven't had all three of these realizations, but I feel strongly that they come in order, and probably, at least in most cases, years apart.

 

"Years apart" is definitely not an absolute though in my opinion, which is why I said in MOST cases.

 

You are not ONLY your body.

If you have 'created' an identity then you are not that-this is false ego.

There is no realisation of 'who' you are, just drop the false ego as easily as dropping rubbish.

[Karl]

From Robert Henricks' translation of the TTC:

 

7. The first is compassion;

8.  The second is frugality;

9.  And the third is not presuming to be at the forefront in the world.

 

I have reduced them to:

 

Compassion

Conservativism

Humility

 

They are pretty much the Catholic virtues. They make as little sense.

[blue eyed snake]

Having compassion; Being conservative; Being humble.

 

agreed

 

You can never shed your body.  No body, no existence.

 

as you know i do not agree with that, but I still liked your post 

 

True compassion requires empathy.  If you can't feel how the other feels you can never offer appropriate compassion (and assistance if possible).

 

yep, adding there that imho besides empathy,  acceptance of the way the other feels about it is important

 

like this 

 

 

Compassion is not something mysterious.  It is a natural response, a feeling of true concern.  People who are not compassionate are considered cold.  And cold is similar to death.

 

to me it seems it can be more than that,

but world would change overnight if we would all hold your definition of compassion as the way to live

[Fate]

What doesn't make sense?
 

1. With compassion you are alive. To feel with, as Marble says, to able to feel is to be alive. To be 'moved' by something is life. Life is just movement isn't it? Vibration all the way down, and compassion is the highest form of love in Eastern thought.

 

2. With frugality you are rich. You can have all the money in the world but without frugality you're just burning larger and larger fires that have to go out. And you're so scared it will run out, terrified and "having not" that you aren't even really aware of what you have anymore. Frugality makes you satisfied to enjoy what you have and what you really need

 

3. Humility.... maybe someone else can take a stab at this one. To be at the top of a mountain is very lonely, to have created an identity that stands above all the rest-or is striving for that-takes one out of compassion and community. If "YOU" are something great and prideful, than you can forget what IS which is all of it, and you're just this seamless manifestation of all o fit, and it gives you awe.

 

There's awe in looking out and up at the universe. There's pride and arrogance in looking down.

[WisteriaWinds]

@Marblehead -> How can one be compassion, when compassion is a feeling and feelings require a body to produce said feeling? Even if it's a light body.Awareness can have many bodies, even if they are 'light bodies,' but what, if nothing else, is left if the bodies keep being shed?Egos are also programs kept in the body...ask me to describe and I will...

Why is compassion a feeling? Who taught you that?

[blue eyed snake]

humility...

 

what is it's cause, and what are its effects.

 

I've felt humbled when ' something' reaches out through me, uses my voice to say the right things, uses my body to do the right actions.

 

being intentionally humble, cultivating that might lead to the becoming smaller of the identity that rides our actions, thereby making people more open to the awareness of the fact that not only the body, but also the mind are eh..vehicles or maybe instruments to be used wisely.

 

pitfall here is that the cultivating of humility can lead to eh..e the construction of yet a next layer of that identity.

 

btw, i've never identified with my body, as a child  always been surprised about people who do.

of late the realization that mind is like body, naught but an instrument, has become clear, but mostly i'm still stuck in the feeling of identification with mind, even though i know/am aware that that not a truism

 

broadly it feels to me that the three treasures and the three discoveries are sort of mutually strengthening each other.

[Karl]

What doesn't make sense?

 

1. With compassion you are alive. To feel with, as Marble says, to able to feel is to be alive. To be 'moved' by something is life. Life is just movement isn't it? Vibration all the way down, and compassion is the highest form of love in Eastern thought.

 

2. With frugality you are rich. You can have all the money in the world but without frugality you're just burning larger and larger fires that have to go out. And you're so scared it will run out, terrified and "having not" that you aren't even really aware of what you have anymore. Frugality makes you satisfied to enjoy what you have and what you really need

 

3. Humility.... maybe someone else can take a stab at this one. To be at the top of a mountain is very lonely, to have created an identity that stands above all the rest-or is striving for that-takes one out of compassion and community. If "YOU" are something great and prideful, than you can forget what IS which is all of it, and you're just this seamless manifestation of all o fit, and it gives you awe.

 

There's awe in looking out and up at the universe. There's pride and arrogance in looking down.

Until you have life you can't have compassion. It's a nice secondary virtue.

 

Frugality is impossible to quantify. It is effectively denial of life, which is why the church pushed it. You cannot be satisfied with what you have or you would cease to breathe, eat or drink.

 

If you don't have pride in yourself then you wouldn't begin to have the virtues that you believe in. Indeed, humility requires of necessity, a pride in being humble. Pride isn't arrogance, or false ego, it is a certainty of self living by a set of virtues to achieve and hold specific values.

 

The universe is everything, looking up, down or inward reveals parts of the universe. That I can know that is the most awe inspiring thing.

Edited June 1, 2016 by Karl

[Teddy]

Your body is an important part of you, for without it, you would not exist. Your identity and personality are also important parts of you.

 

Most of the people who have ever told me that they are not their body or identity, are escapists who hate the reality of their lives. They try to have no attachments and no feelings, because they are in so much pain. In the process, they repress and surpress and make themselves ill.

Whether or not you think you are your body, please look after it. Care for your body, and you will find yourself feeling so much better.

Whether or not you have a strong sense of identity, please be true to your own feelings about things.

[blue eyed snake]

Your body is an important part of you, for without it, you would not exist. Your identity and personality are also important parts of you.

 

i did not deny that, but more regard them as vehicle/instrument. Without body and mind i would not exist on this plane.

 

Most of the people who have ever told me that they are not their body or identity, are escapists who hate the reality of their lives. They try to have no attachments and no feelings, because they are in so much pain. In the process, they repress and surpress and make themselves ill.

Whether or not you think you are your body, please look after it. Care for your body, and you will find yourself feeling so much better.

Whether or not you have a strong sense of identity, please be true to your own feelings about things.

 

Yes, i've met people like that too, but then you're talking of dissociation of pain, that was not what I wrote about. And indeed, these people bury their pain thereby becoming locked up into themselves and not able to handle feelings and emotions.

[Marblehead]

They are pretty much the Catholic virtues. They make as little sense.

Apparently they are good enough for others to adopt.  That gives me confidence in Lao Tzu's teaching.

[Karl]

Apparently they are good enough for others to adopt.  That gives me confidence in Lao Tzu's teaching.

 

There isn't anything wrong with morals or moral teachings, but I assert that virtues handed down by priests and Gurus are floating virtues disconnected from reality. As such they are dead in the water in terms of providing guidance for living, but as long as you only apply them to yourself then they won't bind others.

[cold]

"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them." The character J. B. Books in The Shootist, a 1976 film starring John Wayne directed by Don Siegel.

[Songtsan]

Why is compassion a feeling? Who taught you that?

 

com-

• Word Origin

 

1.

a prefix meaning “with,” “together,” “in association,” and (with intensive force) “completely,” occurring in loanwords from Latin ( commit): used in the formation of compound words before b, p, m: combine; compare; commingle.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------

passion

 

[pash-uh n]

 

1.

any powerful or compelling emotion or feeling, as love or hate.

2.

strong amorous feeling or desire; love; ardor.

3.

strong sexual desire; lust.

4.

an instance or experience of strong love or sexual desire.

5.

a person toward whom one feels strong love or sexual desire.

6.

a strong or extravagant fondness, enthusiasm, or desire for anything:

a passion for music.

7.

the object of such a fondness or desire:

Accuracy became a passion with him.

 

Origin of passion

 

1125-75; Middle English (< Old French) < Medieval Latin passiōn- (stem of passiō) Christ's sufferings on the cross, any of the Biblical accounts of these (> late Old English passiōn), special use of Late Latin passiō suffering, submission, derivative of Latin passus, past participle of patī to suffer, submit; see

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

compassion

 

[kuh m-pash-uh n]

 

 

 

noun

1.

a feeling of deep sympathy and sorrow for another who is stricken by misfortune, accompanied by a strong desire to alleviate the suffering.

verb (used with object)

2.

Archaic. to compassionate.

 

-------------------------------------

 

Anyways, feelings are things that bodies have, which register to the senses, which also are things that bodies have.

 

In the end, we don't take this body with us....so where is compassion then?

 

who knows?

Edited June 1, 2016 by Songtsan

[Songtsan]

According to many Eastern traditions, our root existence is simply awareness. Awareness uncoupled with any particular thing....going from round to round in states of coupling with various things, such as bodies...who knows though....do you know what lies beyond?

[Nungali]

From Robert Henricks' translation of the TTC:

 

7. The first is compassion;

8.  The second is frugality;

9.  And the third is not presuming to be at the forefront in the world.

 

I have reduced them to:

 

Compassion

Conservativism

Humility

 

That's not a lot to beat your chest about .      

[Marblehead]

That's not a lot to beat your chest about .    

Oh!, but it is for me.  I am a very egotistical bastard and expressing even just a little bit of humility is always a great challenge for me.

 

(I'm not as bad as Trump though.)

Edited June 2, 2016 by Marblehead