The Now and the Sub-nows ?

[Shad282]

Hey,

I was lately investigating the existence of other dimensions and such and how much true they are.

I have never experienced any dimensional or anything similar, just the now and being mindful of the now.

and I find that traveling through dimension and such, seems to contradict with being in the now, mindful and aware of the reality as it is.

The state of awareness and mindfulness means that the mind is still and with no thoughts, no visualization and no imagination and just with the reality as it is and what exist in the now.

 

on the other hand, the buddha, who is the teacher of mindfulness and concentration of the mind, went through different dimensions and saw his past lives and such, but how far are these stuff real?

 

Couldn't it just be the mind trying to induce thoughts but this time on another level of mind, that are too real to make you dwell and forget about being mindful and focused in the now?

Seems like an escapism tool that the mind is using but this time based on your beliefs, images, and holographic representation. 

if not, then what is the link between between mindfulness, awareness and such with dimensions, astral, light work? maybe the dimensions are just sub-nows of the now?

 

Thanks 

[Marblehead]

Our mind can do some really great things.  No questioning that.

 

However, it can also imagine some impossible things as if they were real.

 

I'm not going to express my materialism here but only say that we should keep our thoughts logical.

[roger]

Hey,

I was lately investigating the existence of other dimensions and such and how much true they are.

I have never experienced any dimensional or anything similar, just the now and being mindful of the now.

and I find that traveling through dimension and such, seems to contradict with being in the now, mindful and aware of the reality as it is.

The state of awareness and mindfulness means that the mind is still and with no thoughts, no visualization and no imagination and just with the reality as it is and what exist in the now.

 

on the other hand, the buddha, who is the teacher of mindfulness and concentration of the mind, went through different dimensions and saw his past lives and such, but how far are these stuff real?

 

Couldn't it just be the mind trying to induce thoughts but this time on another level of mind, that are too real to make you dwell and forget about being mindful and focused in the now?

Seems like an escapism tool that the mind is using but this time based on your beliefs, images, and holographic representation. 

if not, then what is the link between between mindfulness, awareness and such with dimensions, astral, light work? maybe the dimensions are just sub-nows of the now?

 

Thanks 

 

Seeking experiences such as you've described can be done either as an escape, or as a healthy way to explore truth.

 

You see, it depends on WHY you're doing it.

 

I believe that every choice we make is either born of love, or fear.

 

To do what you're saying could be either.

 

Do you see my point? It's a matter of your REASON for making that choice.

Edited June 5, 2016 by roger

[Shad282]

Seeking experiences such as you've described can be done either as an escape, or as a healthy way to explore truth.

 

You see, it depends on WHY you're doing it.

 

I believe that every choice we make is either born of love, or fear.

 

To do what you're saying could be either.

 

Do you see my point? It's a matter of your REASON for making that choice.

 

Yes of course, The reason, the real intention behind it, but how far can it be the path for the truth ?

 

You can have the healthy intention, a good reason, but that won't justify the rightness of the path to seek the truth.

 

the mind is the most advanced tech/tool/organ that exists on this planet and we have seen only a little from how far it can elude us from the reality.

[sagebrush]

keep it logical? does that exclude emotional?

[sagebrush]

are you reaching into tomorrow?

[sagebrush]

remote access my computer?

[sagebrush]

travelling through dimension? be specific, please describe.

yesterday

 

mortal coil

[roger]

Yes of course, The reason, the real intention behind it, but how far can it be the path for the truth ?

 

You can have the healthy intention, a good reason, but that won't justify the rightness of the path to seek the truth.

 

the mind is the most advanced tech/tool/organ that exists on this planet and we have seen only a little from how far it can elude us from the reality.

 

Emmanuel (a non-physical entity) said once, "Don't you see that you can't go wrong when you follow your heart?"

 

The rightness of a particular path can be discerned by whether or not it's the path of your heart.

 

The path of your heart FEELS right, it gives you peace.

[Bearded Dragon]

traveling through dimension and such, seems to contradict with being in the now, mindful and aware of the reality as it is.

 

Is it not happening in the now? Where else could these experiences arise?

[Shad282]

Is it not happening in the now? Where else could these experiences arise?

The mind. imagination, visualize. you never know what the mind is capable of.

The now is not a time thing... it is about presence, awareness of what is, what is in where you are and nothing more or less. without leaving what is to follow thoughts and imaginations. 

[C T]

The mind. imagination, visualize. you never know what the mind is capable of.

The now is not a time thing... it is about presence, awareness of what is, what is in where you are and nothing more or less. without leaving what is to follow thoughts and imaginations. 

I think there is nothing wrong with following thoughts or fantasies when accompanied by awareness.

 

Getting lost or distracted by these acts is the result of losing awareness. It is not caused by the arising of thoughts or fantasies per se. 

 

We can lose attention, concentration and awareness, which creates some notion that we are no longer present, but that is just a notion, nothing more. The fact is we are always present even when we are not - it is not something for us to lose because we don't actually own anything, least of all this state called 'presence'. Sounds silly, but that about sums it up. 

[Shad282]

I think there is nothing wrong with following thoughts or fantasies when accompanied by awareness.

 

Getting lost or distracted by these acts is the result of losing awareness. It is not caused by the arising of thoughts or fantasies per se. 

 

We can lose attention, concentration and awareness, which creates some notion that we are no longer present, but that is just a notion, nothing more. The fact is we are always present even when we are not - it is not something for us to lose because we don't actually own anything, least of all this state called 'presence'. Sounds silly, but that about sums it up. 

A thought you haven't created and was just created by the subconscious due to a bad habit of continuous thoughts stream is a way of the mind to take you out of the present moment, out of the awareness of this moment to escape to a story of past or future or a fantasy that is able to drag you more out of this moment and the state of no thought and stillness.

[C T]

A thought you haven't created and was just created by the subconscious due to a bad habit of continuous thoughts stream is a way of the mind to take you out of the present moment, out of the awareness of this moment to escape to a story of past or future or a fantasy that is able to drag you more out of this moment and the state of no thought and stillness.

So the way forward is perhaps to raise awareness of habit-triggers and find neutralizing antidotes where negative ones are noted. This brings up the question again: What is the root problem - thoughts, imaginations and fantasies, or a lack of awareness? 

[Astral_butterfly]

Hi there

 

 

 

It would surely be great to be able to switch off and not have any invasive manifestation. Indeed I have a habit of cultivating such gaps. But when my body is totally relaxed and I experience such a gap too efficiently (meaning I become aware of the gap and get attached to it), I automatically feel the vibrations and veer off into trance.

 

 

Now, does this trance get me off track from here and now? To answer this one needs to define "here" and "now" and I find that hard to do in an absolute way. One also needs to define who or what the self is. Don't get me wrong, I understand you are referring to our "physical" reality which seems to be a specific location and point in time. But my reality has been very curved.

 

 

Let me explain. I am convinced from what I have seen that we have a huge number of possible realities of which we could choose to be mindful. While I am sitting here writing this, the one who was dreaming a couple of hours back is continuing her dealings in the dream dimension. Yet it is me. The one who is sorting family feuds with the ancestors is sitting with them taking instructions. The one on a distant star is evaluating her progress. And so on and so forth. Now which one is the real me? Which one should stay focused on her "now"? Clearly none of them has this world as a home but they are all me. A part of me I will call my mind for lack of a better word, can travel between these selves and believes it is the here and now each time.

 

 

That is why I like the word astral because it is flimsy and can mean anything you want it to mean though at the root is is about stars. To me there is no such thing as out of body experience because though the vibrations have seemed to propel me far and wide, they have also been followed by in-the-body interdimensional manifestations. (Like seeing which spirits are in my house at a given time). There have also been many times where I was aware of being in many places at once or in two places at once. Same with time. I have travelled backwards many times and many have travelled forward (ref Hank Wesselman)

 

 

Coming to another part of your question. How to know if it is real. My first instinct is to ask "does it matter?" Or "why should it matter?" But more seriously, in this world we are a group, most closely my mom and my cousin, who share identical accounts related to the departed at about the same times and then there are others outside of the family that I hear from from time to time who fill in parts of information I don't have and re-confirm mine. When our ancestors want to communicate things to us they use tricks to let us remember the experience and to verify their presence. I have some that decide to only manifest the head so I just see floating heads so I see they are earnest. Others wear items of clothing that I can verify with others who see them. My uncle with his black and white pullover comes to mind, he appeared in it to my mom and my other cousin too.

 

 

So if it is not real at least it is the group reality of a few of us.

 

 

About the time thing. I know a zulu shaman lady that I have seen in places (about 10 years back) that time would certainly not allow for. We kept seeing each other in strange places that did not correspond to the time it takes to travel. It startled us greatly. She wanted to take me as an apprentice but I didn't want to commit to animal sacrifice. So she said we would one day transcend time again. Sure enough last year while in a trance induced by drumming I saw her beating my chest in a metaphor of my heartbeat. I recognised her immediately and realised I had long forgotten her name. I travelled back in a flash to our meeting point, came back and exclaimed her name. She broke into a beautiful surprised grin and the love we felt at that moment is something I cannot even describe. So yes, that whole experience was one big "now" to me.

 

 

You may think I am delusional but really it does not matter. What matters to me is being aware of as many facets of what we call consciousness as possible because it makes me understand life and love in a way I appreciate deeply. I even once had a trance in which I was a fish and the water felt like a thick jelly I was swimming through. Before that I was a rose. I am glad I was mindful of that at the time because it is a lovely memory, one of the best I have had.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Astral_butterfly

[Shad282]

Hi there

 

 

 

It would surely be great to be able to switch off and not have any invasive manifestation. Indeed I have a habit of cultivating such gaps. But when my body is totally relaxed and I experience such a gap too efficiently (meaning I become aware of the gap and get attached to it), I automatically feel the vibrations and veer off into trance.

 

 

Now, does this trance get me off track from here and now? To answer this one needs to define "here" and "now" and I find that hard to do in an absolute way. One also needs to define who or what the self is. Don't get me wrong, I understand you are referring to our "physical" reality which seems to be a specific location and point in time. But my reality has been very curved.

 

 

Let me explain. I am convinced from what I have seen that we have a huge number of possible realities of which we could choose to be mindful. While I am sitting here writing this, the one who was dreaming a couple of hours back is continuing her dealings in the dream dimension. Yet it is me. The one who is sorting family feuds with the ancestors is sitting with them taking instructions. The one on a distant star is evaluating her progress. And so on and so forth. Now which one is the real me? Which one should stay focused on her "now"? Clearly none of them has this world as a home but they are all me. A part of me I will call my mind for lack of a better word, can travel between these selves and believes it is the here and now each time.

 

 

That is why I like the word astral because it is flimsy and can mean anything you want it to mean though at the root is is about stars. To me there is no such thing as out of body experience because though the vibrations have seemed to propel me far and wide, they have also been followed by in-the-body interdimensional manifestations. (Like seeing which spirits are in my house at a given time). There have also been many times where I was aware of being in many places at once or in two places at once. Same with time. I have travelled backwards many times and many have travelled forward (ref Hank Wesselman)

 

 

Coming to another part of your question. How to know if it is real. My first instinct is to ask "does it matter?" Or "why should it matter?" But more seriously, in this world we are a group, most closely my mom and my cousin, who share identical accounts related to the departed at about the same times and then there are others outside of the family that I hear from from time to time who fill in parts of information I don't have and re-confirm mine. When our ancestors want to communicate things to us they use tricks to let us remember the experience and to verify their presence. I have some that decide to only manifest the head so I just see floating heads so I see they are earnest. Others wear items of clothing that I can verify with others who see them. My uncle with his black and white pullover comes to mind, he appeared in it to my mom and my other cousin too.

 

 

So if it is not real at least it is the group reality of a few of us.

 

 

About the time thing. I know a zulu shaman lady that I have seen in places (about 10 years back) that time would certainly not allow for. We kept seeing each other in strange places that did not correspond to the time it takes to travel. It startled us greatly. She wanted to take me as an apprentice but I didn't want to commit to animal sacrifice. So she said we would one day transcend time again. Sure enough last year while in a trance induced by drumming I saw her beating my chest in a metaphor of my heartbeat. I recognised her immediately and realised I had long forgotten her name. I travelled back in a flash to our meeting point, came back and exclaimed her name. She broke into a beautiful surprised grin and the love we felt at that moment is something I cannot even describe. So yes, that whole experience was one big "now" to me.

 

 

You may think I am delusional but really it does not matter. What matters to me is being aware of as many facets of what we call consciousness as possible because it makes me understand life and love in a way I appreciate deeply. I even once had a trance in which I was a fish and the water felt like a thick jelly I was swimming through. Before that I was a rose. I am glad I was mindful of that at the time because it is a lovely memory, one of the best I have had.

hey

 

why to go in trance? isn't that some kind of escapism from the now? to go into another state of mind? 

 

The mind can induce a lot of things that could sound totally real... a simple example can be a dream and lucid dreams. 

And trance happens in consciousness while being awake and could feel totally real while it is just mind on another state of thoughts and experience.

 

Thank you for sharing your experiences !! <3

[Spotless]

Meditation, Trance and Now

 

 

In meditation we learn emergence in Presence. It is very simple - it is not an engineering project - not a controlling project - it is no project: simple awareness in stillness while mind may fly along a bit and some fidgeting happens, the day still lingers in our emotions, but simple awareness in no-effort and no-doing just rests and emerges without focus or control.

 

As we do this, compression within our state releases - not in a "doing" but in no-effort. In this we become more and more neutral - (resistance dissipates). In this state increasingly we are inclined by our natural abilities to open and unfold - and from in-body-ment fear gradually dissipates and we come to "see" fully present - whether with eyes open or closed - we are not in trance - we are fully within body and Presence. We see from Presence increasingly clear from our karmic frequency - Presence is "seeing" within body. It is not a case of "we" escaping body to see or be above entrapment.

 

One can learn trance seeing within a day or a few weeks - and since we are already trance addicts it is just a simple adjunct to our illusion. Typically a large adjunct to our ego and sense of knowing something. Fascination - fascinating - mesmerizing sleep.

 

The open human eye is capable of seeing auras and all sorts of things science has removed from the table. This is true of a thousand gifts we have in body - and the body is no entrapment - not in the least.

 

In our daily waking sleep walking state - Stillness will increasingly emerge - and if we are not too blinded by our teachings and reading and "spiritual" programming - meditation is carried on in the waking state - simple neutral abidance - non-expectation - no inertia - stillness - this begins to waft through the tornado of trance sleep-walk.

 

Being in the past or future is trance - it is bypassing / leaving Now - and going to incredible fantastical worlds - we live thousands of days every day - we put our body through constant stress and many lives half lived for seconds.

[Astral_butterfly]

hey

 

why to go in trance? isn't that some kind of escapism from the now? to go into another state of mind? 

 

The mind can induce a lot of things that could sound totally real... a simple example can be a dream and lucid dreams. 

And trance happens in consciousness while being awake and could feel totally real while it is just mind on another state of thoughts and experience.

 

Thank you for sharing your experiences !! <3

Hi there

 

Well for the most part of my life you could not say it was an escape as it happened spontaneously. I would sense something strange and automatically switch my state of consciousness. Mostly when sensing a presence in a house and trust me it was always accurate, up to a point where people were calling me to deal with presences they could no longer tolerate. For me, ordinary consciousness was an escape at that stage because my life became a living nightmare, literally. Whenever strong trauma had happened somewhere I would know all the details. I assure you I wished I could escape forever into "normal" life. It eventually toned down (those were my early years)

 

Knowing what is out there and that it is virtually everywhere makes ordinary life comforting.

 

When you speak about making something look real, think about what you view as reality. You know you had a dream and you say it is not real. Is that not a contradiction? You know for a fact that you experienced it. So where does it come from? Is there such a thing as the imagination when you are not conscious? Which thoughts are real and not real? If you did not invent it into being, is it not existing information? Even lucid dreaming has its limits. Some things are yours and others will not change no matter what you do in the dream.

 

I am one of those people who believe everything is real so I am very careful of what I create and that is the value of halting thought when one can. That is also why not thinking can make me see or hear things. I create space for information that I did not invent so that what is truly there can be seen/heard. The more I silence myself, the more I hear my surroundings. I don't know where you draw the limits of trance, but for me being very still and mindful is the start of a trance. Like the state you are in when you relax on a rock in the forest and hear the birds sing. Nothing psychedelic but already enough to drift and forget your life.

[Astral_butterfly]

Actually sometimes I wonder what truly is a trance as it seems one lives a thousand different states of mind in just one day...just that most people don't notice it. I notice it because I have a very strong habit of observing my mind. It is amazing how many different states of consciousness there are and how often people are entranced without realising it. You might enjoy the works of Dennis Weir, he goes very far with the rôle of trance on society.

[Marblehead]

keep it logical? does that exclude emotional?

 

Yes, it excludes emotional.  We can still be logical while expressing whatever emotionally.  However, beware of emotions, they have ego as a defender.

[Shad282]

Hi there

 

Well for the most part of my life you could not say it was an escape as it happened spontaneously. I would sense something strange and automatically switch my state of consciousness. Mostly when sensing a presence in a house and trust me it was always accurate, up to a point where people were calling me to deal with presences they could no longer tolerate. For me, ordinary consciousness was an escape at that stage because my life became a living nightmare, literally. Whenever strong trauma had happened somewhere I would know all the details. I assure you I wished I could escape forever into "normal" life. It eventually toned down (those were my early years)

 

Knowing what is out there and that it is virtually everywhere makes ordinary life comforting.

 

When you speak about making something look real, think about what you view as reality. You know you had a dream and you say it is not real. Is that not a contradiction? You know for a fact that you experienced it. So where does it come from? Is there such a thing as the imagination when you are not conscious? Which thoughts are real and not real? If you did not invent it into being, is it not existing information? Even lucid dreaming has its limits. Some things are yours and others will not change no matter what you do in the dream.

 

I am one of those people who believe everything is real so I am very careful of what I create and that is the value of halting thought when one can. That is also why not thinking can make me see or hear things. I create space for information that I did not invent so that what is truly there can be seen/heard. The more I silence myself, the more I hear my surroundings. I don't know where you draw the limits of trance, but for me being very still and mindful is the start of a trance. Like the state you are in when you relax on a rock in the forest and hear the birds sing. Nothing psychedelic but already enough to drift and forget your life.

 

I guess you are using the wrong word... trance... that is why there is a misunderstanding... i guess what u mean is a mindful and still state of mind that you reach through thoughts and mind observation and lead to clarity in ur senses giving you such abilities.

 

If you can tell me more about your path... how you started observing the mind, techniques and books that helped you? and when and how the clarity of seeing and hearing started?

 

[allinone]

clinging to now moment is wrong because it would deny that you could move with the same speed with the object you deduct your view of now moment.

Edited July 5, 2016 by allinone

[Astral_butterfly]

I guess you are using the wrong word... trance... that is why there is a misunderstanding... i guess what u mean is a mindful and still state of mind that you reach through thoughts and mind observation and lead to clarity in ur senses giving you such abilities.

 

If you can tell me more about your path... how you started observing the mind, techniques and books that helped you? and when and how the clarity of seeing and hearing started?

 

Yes as a western person I am painfully short of accurate words. I admire the forum participants who are so good at naming what they mean.

 

I find it hard to draw the line between stages of consciousness. I like to not think and be blank. Mostly I like to laugh and be frivolous. But when I am lying down I have to be really tired and sleep nice and fast as I have a habit of going into hynagogia as I don't like thinking before sleeping. It must be something about the position. Even this morning I was restless in bed and the vibrations came by themselves. For me the mark of a full-on trance that leads to seeing things is the vibrating, my whole body going on like an airplane engine! Normally when I think of nothing.

 

I don't know how it started. I do remember having vibrations and soul wanderings when I was about two years old with my cousin who was three years old. He was very wise and taught me many things. We used to share dreams. Or was it "astral projection" I don't know. But we used to hold hands to sleep, we both lived at my grandmother's place. We had another language and it was as if we could share our minds. Then one day he wanted to show me something and it was a vision of his upcoming death. We held hands and he showed me the whole thing. Then he died. I spent my life missing him. I thought I fantasised it all and asked my one cousin about him (his sister). She was much older than him. She re-confirmed everything and told me he used to give signs of his death even to his parents. In the stars and in nature. I do believe it is thanks to him that I became an explorer of consciousness. But it made me very sad and to this day I feel like a loner. Thanks to him I didn't suppress what I experienced as a child and it just grew and grew.

 

I hated it as a teen as I had no filter whatsoever. I won't give the details on a public forum but it was stuff horror movies are made of. I went into meditation in my late teens and it died down a lot but it never did stop.

 

Books that helped me? Wow it depends with what. I mostly liked stories of other people who had to deal with these things. Always puzzled that they seem to have their lives in order while I still don't know why I am like this and don't know what I should do with it. My booklist is extremely long maybe we could discuss it elsewhere...

[allinone]

Hi Astral_Butterfly,

do you enter into a dream state while in trance? like you will see a landscape and then can tune into it and it becomes a lucid dream?

 

maybe its because of yin/water overload in head, you can become hypnagogic easily.

 

How about entering trance outdoors in nature, well rested?

or in a postion of where you are standing(a position where you are having a effort)?

If also your awareness is in a body, have you tried to enter trance?

 

Can you provide more diverse information about your trance and how you enter them and when it is easier t o enter and what days or circumstances you are not able to, please. 

Edited July 5, 2016 by allinone

[Astral_butterfly]

Hi Astral_Butterfly,

do you enter into a dream state while in trance? like you will see a landscape and then can tune into it and it becomes a lucid dream?

 

maybe its because of yin/water overload in head, you can become hypnagogic easily.

 

How about entering trance outdoors in nature, well rested?

or in a postion of where you are standing(a position where you are having a effort)?

If also your awareness is in a body, have you tried to enter trance?

 

Can you provide more diverse information about your trance and how you enter them and when it is easier t o enter and what days or circumstances you are not able to, please.

 

Hi this is so intriguing and interesting. Yin overload? Dream state? I don't know about that. Actually the thought clearly comes into my head. Like last week as soon as the vibrations came I knew for a fact I was going to see my late father and there he was, in living detail, as real as he ever was. I never feel dreamy in fact I am wide awake and bright and clear because it is usually interesting and I don't want to miss anything. I am never foggy and in fact I feel more awake and aware. Hyperaware if you know what I mean.

 

I have had this while awake and moving. Like when there are entities who are looking at me. I sense them and make the switch in a flash. No-one seems to notice me "going". And sure as anything the person or even possibly the moving mist/cloud, is there.

 

Now I am starting the qi gong and want to see what happens.

 

I don't know when it is not possible as I try not to force as a rule. If I ever do make this into a practice, I do intend documenting the calendar of ability though.

 

Why? you have roused my curiosity.

 

Please feel free to pm as I don't want to hijack the thread.