secrets, secrecy, and creating an enlightened world

[roger]

"It's not the secrets themselves that create the fear, but the secrecy." -Cris Loesser (a former teacher of mine)

 

Probably the majority of people in the US believe in eternal hell. At least they intellectually assent to it, whether they honestly believe it or not is another question. Personally I doubt many people do, they believe it because of societal factors.

 

But it's a taboo, a secret. People don't talk about it much or even THINK about it. Most people never ask themselves if they think they'll go to hell. And few of them question how a God who's supposed to be infinitely loving could cause or allow someone to suffer unbearably for all eternity. It's a taboo, clearly. I remember when I was an evangelical Christian, I never one single time considered the possibility of my going to hell forever, I never thought about it. I was AFRAID to.

 

Well, most of us here at this website, including me, would consider the idea of eternal hell to be absurd.

 

But the thing is it's not only absurd, it's DANGEROUS. Religious lies like eternal hell stand as a massive block or wall that prevent individuals, as well as the "consensus reality" (the masses), from finding spiritual truth.

 

I feel that if humankind is ever to become an enlightened civilization, then societal taboos, such as the idea of eternal hell, must be exposed and brought out of secrecy.

Edited June 6, 2016 by roger

[thelerner]

I agree.  Also with the notion that these days, the last century or two hell has been given more lip service then full on belief.  I think even the pope was downgrading hell into a more purgatoryish place.  Even heaven ain't what it (theologically) used to be, less floaty in clouds more existential connecting the spirit with God/Oneness. 

 

On the other hand, I don't think going full on atheist would proved to be a huge boon for mankind.  I think communism has taught us a sharing equal society can be just as blood thirsty as the worst religious, see Pol Pot, Stalin.. Mao.. Kim Jung Ils..

[Marblehead]

"Imagine"

[Aetherous]

We don't really KNOW that it's untrue.

[roger]

We don't really KNOW that it's untrue.

 

You're probably right.

 

But I'll give a few reasons why I'm 99.9999% sure of it.

 

1. Near-death experiences. Many people who have had NDE's come back believing in reincarnation.

 

Btw (I'm currently editing this), no one believes in BOTH reincarnation and eternal hell- it's one or the other.

 

2. Enlightenment. Enlightenment is a pantheistic (all is god) and monistic (all is one) phenomenon that goes against the idea of eternal hell, and no spiritual master (at least none I've ever heard of or read) believes in it.

 

3. Past-life regressions. There have been many accounts of people seeing their past lives, and what they saw has been confirmed factually.

 

4. Channeling. NO non-physical, "channeled," entity has ever taught eternal hell. ALL of them teach reincarnation.

 

5. Logic. It just doesn't make sense that an infinitely loving God would cause or allow people to suffer unspeakably for eternity. I, myself, wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy, and I'm nowhere close to infinitely loving.

 

Now, ironically, the evangelical leaders whom I've heard and read, would say that the first four of these reasons (actually they would say this applies even to my logic) are SATANIC- lies that the Devil has created.

 

Just check out a book written by an evangelical, or listen to a sermon about it. NDE's- it's the Devil PRETENDING to be God. Enlightenment- again, the spiritual master is having a "demonic experience." Past-life regressions- the information that was factually confirmed was given by the Devil or demons. Channeling- the non-physical entities are demons.

 

These are some of the reasons I feel very confident that there's no eternal hell.

Edited June 7, 2016 by roger

[Aetherous]

Buddhism teaches of the hell realms, where you spend many millions of times more than a human life. Not eternal, but definitely longer than desirable.

I'm also 99% sure there isn't an eternal hell...but...wait a second...

Actually I'm 100% sure there isn't one. Because for it to be eternal, we'd have to be there right now, and for all previous time.

Okay maybe there's a hell that lasts forever after the time you check in...I'm 99% sure there isn't one...

 

But to be certain of something that we don't truly know could be considered foolish. It's better to admit the truth...it's a possibility!

[Marblehead]

Heaven and Hell are simply states of contentment with this life.

 

We don't go anywhere when we die.  Our journey is finished.

 

Did we die happy or filled with fear and hate?

[C T]

Heaven and Hell are simply states of contentment with this life.

 

We don't go anywhere when we die.  Our journey is finished.

 

Did we die happy or filled with fear and hate?

Yeah MH. Heaven & hell pose eternal fascinations and will remain acute speculative topics for a long, long time. 

[Karl]

You're probably right.

 

But I'll give a few reasons why I'm 99.9999% sure of it.

 

1. Near-death experiences. Many people who have had NDE's come back believing in reincarnation.

 

Btw (I'm currently editing this), no one believes in BOTH reincarnation and eternal hell- it's one or the other.

 

2. Enlightenment. Enlightenment is a pantheistic (all is god) and monistic (all is one) phenomenon that goes against the idea of eternal hell, and no spiritual master (at least none I've ever heard of or read) believes in it.

 

3. Past-life regressions. There have been many accounts of people seeing their past lives, and what they saw has been confirmed factually.

 

4. Channeling. NO non-physical, "channeled," entity has ever taught eternal hell. ALL of them teach reincarnation.

 

5. Logic. It just doesn't make sense that an infinitely loving God would cause or allow people to suffer unspeakably for eternity. I, myself, wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy, and I'm nowhere close to infinitely loving.

 

Now, ironically, the evangelical leaders whom I've heard and read, would say that the first four of these reasons (actually they would say this applies even to my logic) are SATANIC- lies that the Devil has created.

 

Just check out a book written by an evangelical, or listen to a sermon about it. NDE's- it's the Devil PRETENDING to be God. Enlightenment- again, the spiritual master is having a "demonic experience." Past-life regressions- the information that was factually confirmed was given by the Devil or demons. Channeling- the non-physical entities are demons.

 

These are some of the reasons I feel very confident that there's no eternal hell.

 

Is the belief that you will reincarnate any different from the belief that you will go to heaven, or hell ?

 

If you believe that religion is the cause of an unenlightened effect and as Lerner has pointed out, that Atheism in the form of materialism/relativism/ collectivism has produced some equally appalling results, then why do you believe new age mysticism is going to be any better ? To believe that man reincarnated is to believe in the same kind of mysticism that tells of mans decent into hell-the plane has shifted from an unknown supernatural place and substitutes a known place with supernatural human element that's all.

 

Enlightenment comes from full knowing that you are mortal, can die and will neither return, nor go to paradise or a hell. That you had better make the most of the time you have and act rationally to gain honest values that will result in your own happiness.

[WisteriaWinds]

I don't believe in reincarnation but i do believe in rebirth. Thats due to my own meditative experiences. I do believe Jesus resurrected. I find it interesting he didnt come back and refute his previous teachings. Now, did he mean "hell" the way it's taught? I'm not sure, but I lean away from it.

 

One of the main things meditation has taught me is I only know what I know.

[WisteriaWinds]

Heaven and Hell are simply states of contentment with this life.

 

We don't go anywhere when we die. Our journey is finished.

 

Did we die happy or filled with fear and hate?

Who cares?

[Owledge]

...

But it's a taboo, a secret. People don't talk about it much or even THINK about it.

...

In my experience this is very much not true, or at least doesn't apply generally. Hell is in no way a taboo among Christian folks. Maybe considered a bit quaint among less devoted people, but the whole sinner theme is about the risk of going to hell.

And it might not be the best strategy to get people to be good, and can cause the opposite (i.e. messy), but is seems as necessary as are laws.