Self Concept

[Jim D.]

How is it that we are the only species that has to convince itself that we are special, unique, and irreplaceable regarding our place in the Universe?

 

JD

[Marblehead]

It's required because we think too much.  Many of us would be much better off if we didn't think so much.

 

Living spontaneously is kinda' neat.

[thelerner]

hmnn, I've seen some cats that seem to hold that opinion..

 

With big brains come measurements and we measure mostly in relationship to ourselves and what we know.  Maybe we need some of that 'we are unique and special' feelings to counteract a world that so often tells us we're not.  ie, I think a little of it is healthy.  In one pocket keep the world was made for me, in the other keep I am only dust; using either truths when the time is proper.

[sagebrush]

I do not feel like this is coming from a combative perspective but I have difficulty with your statement from my perspective.

 

 

I think each person is unique. but that maybe you mean the everyday ego human stuff is overrated?

 

and as far as other species go...just think of the tiny seahorse....geezz.....and the very fact that the males give birth is very unique.

 

This subject makes me think of the Deserada...I think it is entitled.

 

 

Off to work because I am not unique enough to have made my fortune to stay at home and stir the pot at Dao bums...

[Marblehead]

Well Sagebrush, I have said here a number of times that we each are special and unique.  I still stand by that.

 

I have never suggested that any of us are irreplaceable.  But I'm sure many of us feel that way about ourself.

 

But I know that evolution will deal with those things we humans are not doing properly.

[sagebrush]

Well Jim has started the thread and I wish to not take it over-improperly.

 

I was making conversation back from where I stand.

 

This is for learning. And it gets mighty uncomfortable.

 

 

Maybe Jim returns and gives more of his perspective and what exactly he is referring to--

 

I have to allow my thoughts out at times-and allow others in---

 

just the idea of not doing things properly puts me in two modes: defense and a need to soften.

 

so back to the original self concept heading--

 

I have a concept of me--

underneath that might be a little more peace

[Jim D.]

Actually, we are irreplaceable. No one can ever occupy the space that we occupy the way and how that we do. That when our time comes to shut down and become dust there will never be another "Marblehead," "Sagebrush," or "Thelener." Just as Jupiter will never occupy the same place or spot that it did when it "danced with the moon the other night."

 

If we believe that Doa is in us, and we are Dao then there should be a knowing. A sense of confidence and empowerment.

 

That way to achieve this state of being is to meditate. If takes us into a state of formlessness. Another way to achieve this state over time is to air your dirty laundry with a confident...someone who will normalize your experieces. After a time what becomes of then and their is now. We only need to take an inventory of today...the good, bad, and ugly...and take care of it...one day at a time. Each moment thereafter will be coninuous and unfolding.

 

JD

[sagebrush]

no airing laundry

I would drink boiled sock juice

off their  divine feat

[Karl]

How is it that we are the only species that has to convince itself that we are special, unique, and irreplaceable regarding our place in the Universe?

 

JD

That we know of I should add.

 

I was interested to see where this would go and held back from jumping in too quickly on something that is a natural subject for me-particularly as its a newcomers post-but now the post count has increased sufficiently I thought it time to get my feet wet.

 

We are unique amongst all the species on planet Earth because we are the only species that uses reason. This means that it is necessary to think into the future, to the point where we are able to conceptualise our own death and even to prepare for it-making wills, power of attorney, the kind of funeral and life insurance policies.

 

We are irreplaceable, special and unique as independent individuals and we are the only animal on the planet that is capable of knowing and expressing it. We are the only animal able to conceptualise the universe and our place in it.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Karl

[Jim D.]

If you look back at my thread, I suggested that a person "air their dirt laundry" with someone that would not spread it around or use it against them, like a sponsor in a 12 Step Program who has done a 4th Step themselves. You don't want to put it up on a Forum or with someone you don't know. Their can never be real peace of mind until we face what we have done or failed to do to ourselves or others until we take a fearless and moral inventory of our lives. Otherwise, the garbage keeps piling up. The weight of it all becomes unbearable. We are as sick as our secrets.

 

JD

[Karl]

If you look back at my thread, I suggested that a person "air their dirt laundry" with someone that would not spread it around or use it against them, like a sponsor in a 12 Step Program who has done a 4th Step themselves. You don't want to put it up on a Forum or with someone you don't know. Their can never be real peace of mind until we face what we have done or failed to do to ourselves or others until we take a fearless and moral inventory of our lives. Otherwise, the garbage keeps piling up. The weight of it all becomes unbearable. We are as sick as our secrets.

 

JD

'Fearless moral inventory' :-)

 

And the morality has to be entirely self-generated. We have to be out own watchdog at all times; guarding against consuming and integrating moral evasion or ignorance. People readily accept that eating junk harms their bodies, but few recognise that consciously appropriating mental junk is much worse. You can easily look at a diet and then take some exercise, but mental hygeine is not as easy to spot. One of the things that is required is to have a fully formed and integrated philosophy which accords with reality and I know from experience, that having such a thing and having a precise code of virtues, is one of the easiest ways of achieving mental peace and increases the chance of greater happiness, but people can't see it, they walk straight past like they might walk past a gym, or the greengrocer.

[Jim D.]

We don't have to buy into a philosophy. Our own moral code is inherent in core values that we were born with but have forgotten along the way and replaced with the hedonistic behaviors that in time become self destructive. I posted a topic yesterday entitled Trapped in on the outside. That was me at the end of  38 years living insanely and not knowing it...no awareness. I acted out my own unhappiness. anger, and resentment at not getting what I wanted when I wanted it. So, I infused my control over others, circumstances, and events...most of the time dishonestly. I lived a dishonest life internally which made me untrustworthy and phoney. But I told myself that I was seeking the truth.

 

O.K.since we are here to talk about Doa...Doa is formless but all knowing. We are not aware of this entity but ignore it because the life we live becomes too noisy to be aware of it. Doa is subtle and seems to hide itself in nature. Here is an example of how it works. There is nothing fancy about getting into the flow of life. My wife calls me over to help her. I am on this computer typing something I am interested in. I am annoyed that I am being inconvenienced. I have a choice. I could say wait a minute (which is more than a minute), or get up and go to her and help her. I can examine my feelings which are not fact, trace it back to its root cause, and correct my selfishness by getting into service work. I say I love her, so behave that way. Love is action, not a feeling. I get out of myself which is flawed, and get into the flow. I practice, practice, and practice. It gets easier and easier. And then I take it to the next level, the world at large. I don't know about you but I need reminders, and people around me who are like minded.

 

"Those who consider their path superior are condescending. A parrot who speaks of the totality of the self is absurd. Many paths lead to the summit. But it takes a whole body to get there." (365 Tao Daily Meditations, Deng Ming-Doa, pg. 166)

 

May peace and prosperity follow you always. :-)

[Karl]

We weren't born with any code. We are blank slates at birth with cognitive and emotional capacities.

 

I see you are an intrincisist-which means you have bought into that philosophy. All of us buy into a philosophy whether we want to or not. The problem is that the philosophies are usually a cobbled together mass of ill fitting odds and ends lacking coherent Genesis in reality. They are floating concepts tied to nothing and integrated to nothing.

 

Your intrincisist philosophy is an example of a floating abstract. You got that from Plato and his world of forms and he gave it to Aquinas who added-or at least attempted to derive it logically.

 

I'm mindful that the usual turn here is for me to get a landslide of derision which I'm used to, so, to save us from the collapse into irrational haranguing I shall say that upfront. If you want a really open debate-something I am often accused of being incapable due to closed mind/black and white thinking etc-then we can do that, but my adopted philosophy drives my debating style and view point so, you were warned :-)

[Jim D.]

My intent is not to change or argue my point until someone agrees with me. I just think that it is O.K. to live the way you want to live, and believe in what you want to believe. Whatever floats your boat, just don't try to float mine.

 

Give me a real time example of Intrincisist philosophy, or floating abstract.

[Karl]

My intent is not to change or argue my point until someone agrees with me. I just think that it is O.K. to live the way you want to live, and believe in what you want to believe. Whatever floats your boat, just don't try to float mine.

 

Give me a real time example of Intrincisist philosophy, or floating abstract.

That we are born with intrinsic knowledge that we have somehow forgotten. An intrincisist believes in revelation, or a 'feeling' or some other sense that there is a knowing beyond the capacity to reason. Some will say it's lost knowledge, others say it is just beyond the mind and others say 'be still and listen'. These are all intrincisist philosophies with slightly different twists. In objectivist terms these are the beliefs of the Mystics of spirit. The usual argument then proceeds down the sophist route when the one making the statement realises he can't substantiate it. This is the argument that 'man cannot step in the same river twice for he is not exactly the same man, nor is that exact section of rives exactly the same as it was the first time' these are the Mystics of muscle-the subjectivists and the quantum theorists at the level of scientism.

 

A floating abstract is the Dao. It's formless, without identity and several many other things that means it is 'beyond the mind' or however someone wishes to posit it. This is an area where I frequently hear that 'that's not it at all' 'you don't know because you don't follow the dao' et al.

 

I would make comment on your previous post where you mentioned hedonism but then confused it slightly by adding that you didn't 'get what you wanted'. Hedonism is the pursuit of pleasure purely for the pursuit of pleasure and pleasure at any cost. However pleasure isn't a value that we need to obtain, it is the reward for achieving the value and so hedonism is one of the subjectivist extremes-it results in the pragmatism of taking whatever you want because there are no moral absolutes, because reality cannot be known. Funnily enough the same thing-in reverse-applies to the intrincisists who insist that pleasure is unnecessary and therefore go off searching for a 'simplistic' life, or with the ascetics, a life of penury and pain.

 

Naturally, no one owes you anything, or you don't owe anyone, except where you have given your word as contract. So, if you had expected people to sacrifice for you, then that is neitzchian philosophy-the superman which the many are forced to sacrifice to the one. To expect everyone to sacrifice to a greater 'common good' the state/the people etc then this is Hegelian philosophy as interpreted by the likes of Marx.

 

It is fine to 'live as you want' as long as it doesn't involve others having to follow your lead, or the way you vote, or what you believe is right-if that philosophy isn't fully grounded in reality. Then you are initiating force. The beauty of objectivism is that it's a guide for the individual and sees the initiation of force as a strike against reason, therefore the mind and that is anti-reason and therefore anti-objectivist. Leave me alone and I will leave you alone is the best practice.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Karl